Global Warming/Climate Change Super Thread

[ArmyRick]

I don’t intend to get into a discussion, as nothing either side says will influence the other, but in order for this not to be an echo chamber, here’s what the oldest Acedemy of Science, the Royal Sociery, has to say:

The Basics of Climate Change

Yeah you did intend to make it a discussion or don't bother posting it.

Lots of holes in the opening statements that we have already discussed here. And the info we discuss comes from scientist (many of whom refuse payment for their work to keep credibility).

Water vapour is the number one greenhouse gas by an extremely large margin (No scientist can give you accurate numbers, the best they can do is a calculated estimate) However no one is arguing it is the most dominant greenhouse gas and has a massive influence on the weather (climate).

Dr Happer work on atmospheric carbon is excellent and informative. Even if we took the highest estimations (that is all they are) of atmospheric carbon (that is only from human technology? yeah who is gonna sort that out) and double it, it still wouldn't change the climate. Water vapours still have far greater influence. Our atmospheric carbon levels have gone way, way up and way, way down in the long vast history of Earth (like long pre-dinosaurs to now).

Of course, a lot of skipping over the effects that ever GREEN growing plant has on this. They sequester carbon for growth and root glomalin production (soil sugar production which benefits bacteria growth in soil).

Measuring atmospheric carbon can be very haphazard. Measurements taken in early spring (when plants emerge, mid plant dormancy periods or at the end of growing cycles is night and day difference.

Temperatures recorded in mid 1800s to now can be greatly different just based on urban build up.

I talked a bit about volcanoes. That seems to get skipped over.

So here is my take aways, first climate is always changing. Second, we have absolutely no scientific way to be sure we are doing it based on carbon emissions and lots of evidence saying it is not.

Don't come on here with a "echo chamber" comment and not be prepared to stand by your statement or discuss it.

 

[QV]

I don’t intend to get into a discussion, as nothing either side says will influence the other, but in order for this not to be an echo chamber, here’s what the oldest Acedemy of Science, the Royal Sociery, has to say:

The Basics of Climate Change

Canada consumes more carbon dioxide than it makes.

NASA Space Mission Takes Stock of Carbon Dioxide Emissions by Countries – Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet

A pilot project has estimated emissions and removals of carbon dioxide in individual nations using satellite measurements.

climate.nasa.gov

 

[Baz]

Yeah you did intend to make it a discussion or don't bother posting it.

< blah, blah, blah >

Don't come on here with a "echo chamber" comment and not be prepared to stand by your statement or discuss it.

Nope didn’t. I just wanted to point out to other’s (you’ve made your position clear) that there are in fact easy to find references to the scientific consensus. I trust the Royal Society more than the references you provide which I’ve checked and are tainted. My choice.

I can make any comment I want, and have provided a reference to justify it.

 

[YZT580]

Canada consumes more carbon dioxide than it makes.

NASA Space Mission Takes Stock of Carbon Dioxide Emissions by Countries – Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet

A pilot project has estimated emissions and removals of carbon dioxide in individual nations using satellite measurements.

climate.nasa.gov

so why have we polluted our visual environment with bird abattoirs?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

so why have we polluted our visual environment with bird abattoirs?

 

[GR66]

View attachment 91019

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Seen.

I've inspected real chicken and turkey abattoirs. That made it confusing for me.

Tanks!

 

[ArmyRick]

Nope didn’t. I just wanted to point out to other’s (you’ve made your position clear) that there are in fact easy to find references to the scientific consensus. I trust the Royal Society more than the references you provide which I’ve checked and are tainted. My choice.

I can make any comment I want, and have provided a reference to justify it.

So your picking your experts based on what you want to hear? Got it. Try spending more than five minutes on google. Dr Happer (as one) is a very reputable and trusted scientist.

 

[ArmyRick]

Nope didn’t. I just wanted to point out to other’s (you’ve made your position clear) that there are in fact easy to find references to the scientific consensus. I trust the Royal Society more than the references you provide which I’ve checked and are tainted. My choice.

I can make any comment I want, and have provided a reference to justify it.

And before you "Blah, blah, blah" me, try breaking down and refuting each point.

 

[QV]

so why have we polluted our visual environment with bird abattoirs?

Special interests and agendas.

 

[Baz]

So you’re picking your experts based on what you want to hear? Got it. Try spending more than five minutes on google. Dr Happer (as one) is a very reputable and trusted scientist.

He is a professor of physics who has “ who has specialized in the study of atomic physics, optics and spectroscopy.” Even the CATO institute doesn’t list any specialties in Climate science. He also routinely pops in “junk” climate science. I’ve heard the name before.

I’ve read actual peer reviewed papers on climate, have investigated many of the claims you’ve made and find them wanting, put more trust in the scientific consensus (so there’s a vast conspiracy but the few scientists that say what you want to here are right) and as recently as last week spoke to an actual professor of geography at a local university on the subject as he has done research on sea level rise due to climate change for local contractors doing ocean front construction (and seeing as I live on the ocean that is of concern to me).

Again, I’m never going to convince you and a few others of anything, but hopefully some of the people reading this won’t take what you write as gospel.

 

[Baz]

And before you "Blah, blah, blah" me, try breaking down and refuting each point.

Blah, blah, blah

 

[YZT580]

He is a professor of physics who has “ who has specialized in the study of atomic physics, optics and spectroscopy.” Even the CATO institute doesn’t list any specialties in Climate science. He also routinely pops in “junk” climate science. I’ve heard the name before.

I’ve read actual peer reviewed papers on climate, have investigated many of the claims you’ve made and find them wanting, put more trust in the scientific consensus (so there’s a vast conspiracy but the few scientists that say what you want to here are right) and as recently as last week spoke to an actual professor of geography at a local university on the subject as he has done research on sea level rise due to climate change for local contractors doing ocean front construction (and seeing as I live on the ocean that is of concern to me).

Again, I’m never going to convince you and a few others of anything, but hopefully some of the people reading this won’t take what you write as gospel.

when Obama puts his waterfront property up for sale, when Al Gore stops flying around in his Gulfstream, when the whole Carbon footprint crew start meeting via the web, that is when I will start believing that there might be some truth to it all. Even in that case though, I suspect that the cost isn't worth it.

 

[ArmyRick]

Blah, blah, blah

Dr Happer still has a solid international reputation, NO credible scientist would ever try to say ALL climate (and weather) can be explained simply as there is a large number of factors to calculate that its near impossible. Certainly not in a five minute video.

I am sick and tired of having climate scares hung over our heads. Especially by politicians who every snow storm, hurricane, thunderstorm, tornado, cloud, rain drop, forest fire or drought is all result of "man made climate change". None of the previous dooms days claims have come true but damn Michael Mann has made quite the reputation for himself from his BS hockey graph and suing anyone who disagrees with him. And then have national policies based on Climate scare? No thanks.

I have noticed you keep deferring to the "experts" and refuse to break down the portions of their science discussed such as carbon, methane (A big non issue), water, solar eclipses and flares, Milankovic cycle, again TECTONIC plate activity, oceanic interaction with atmosphere, etc.

There are places on the planet where sea level is falling not rising, there is places in both the arctic and antarctic where the ice is greater than the year prior.

 

[CountDC]

I don’t intend to get into a discussion, as nothing either side says will influence the other, but in order for this not to be an echo chamber, here’s what the oldest Acedemy of Science, the Royal Sociery, has to say:

The Basics of Climate Change

Would that be the same society that published this in support of covid vaccine - https://royalsociety.org/-/media/policy/projects/set-c/set-c-vaccine-deployment.pdf

• The public needs to be empowered to spot and report misinformation, with more accountability for media companies to remove harmful information and legal consequences for individuals or groups that spread misinformation.

For a scientific group that is a concerning. Shouldn't they want to address the information that people present dispute rather than gagging them? Kinda looks like a snooty group of we are right you are wrong don't want to hear anything else or we will punish you.

As for climate change, sure everything affects it. We maybe are speeding some things up. So what. Climate changes would happen even if we were not here just like it did before we were. So instead of 100 years for the temp to move 1 degree it takes 50. Maybe it is just the climate pendulum swinging back, after all this is the lowest carbon has been in earths history. It is a bit hard to take seriously when they want to blame everything - kill the cows, they are farting too much!! Windmills are good, windmills are bad!!

Personally - I am good with the climate change, tired of shovelling snow and feeling the cold in my bones.

 

[Baz]

You don’t seem to understand… I’ve debated your points before (both online and in person), pretty much all of them, and I’ve found that those that prescribe to them are as set in their thoughts as you are accusing me of.

I’m not a climate radical… I live in the suburbs and drive a mini-van back and forth, up to 3 or 4 times a day, and have an ocean facing front facade with a lot of windows. Haven’t even installed solar yet.

But I am convinced the climate is changing and it is largely Man made, and agree with the scientific consensus. I also believe that there are things we can and should do, and it’s going to cost us individually, especially in Western countries. But better to do it now, rather than when it’s more expensive later.

But to be clear, I have no interest in debating you because your opinions are irrelevant to me. I do have an interest in telling others that you simply saying it more forcibly doesn’t make it necessary right.

 

[QV]

Environmental stewardship is necessary and important, but the climate cult is over the top and frankly I think it has been weaponized to weaken western industrial nations.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Some proponents of climate change don't seem too concerned with climate change when it comes to personal choice.

Barack Obama's Hawaiian Mansion Nearing Completion

The Obamas' awesome Hawaiian estate is nearing completion ... but not without controversy.

www.tmz.com

Sea Level Rise Dooms Obama’s New Martha’s Vineyard Mansion

Guest “I couldn’t make this sort of schist up if I was trying” by David Middleton This is sort of a follow up to Eric’s post on the Obama’s new beachfront mansion&#823…

wattsupwiththat.com

Does al gore have a private jet? - GB Times

Does Al Gore Have a Private Jet? Al Gore, the former US Vice President and climate change activist, has been […]

gbtimes.com

 

[Baz]

I’m not engaging in a COVID-19 deflection. My Battle Watch position at US Northcom, Canada Com liaison watch officer, sat directly next to the formation surgeon (who had a position on battle watch). She was an epidemiologist, deliberately, due to the known threat of a looming pandemic. This was 2005.

I learned a lot from her during exercises that included a pandemic (all of them). That included what she thought could be expected re misinformation.

Again, in 2005.

So nope, what you quoted doesn’t lower my trust in the Royal Society to place it below misinformation sources. The rest of the report (I looked at the forward and summary) looks like proper peer reviewed work to me.

 

[daftandbarmy]

That climate change stuff is soooo last year

Scientists brace ‘for the worst’ as Trump purges climate mentions from websites​

Trump administration pulling references online ‘won’t make crisis’ stop affecting Americans’ lives, say experts


Donald Trump’s administration has started to remove or downgrade mentions of the climate crisis across the US government, with the websites of several major departments pulling down references to anything related to the climate crisis. Climate scientists said they were braced “for the worst”.

A major climate portal on the Department of Defense’s website has been scrapped, as has the main climate change section on the site of the Department of State. A climate change page on the White House’s website no longer exists, nor does climate content provided by the US agriculture department, including information that provides vulnerability assessments for wildfires.

An entire section on “climate and sustainability” hosted by the Department of Transportation has now vanished, with the department’s new leadership also ordering the elimination of any policy positions, directives or funding “which reference or relate in any way to climate change, ‘greenhouse gas’ [sic] emissions, racial equity, gender identity, ‘diversity, equity and inclusion’ goals, environmental justice or the Justice40 initiative”.

Sean Duffy, the US transportation secretary, said the administration is focused on “eliminating excessive regulations that have hindered economic growth, increased costs for American families, and prioritized far-left agendas over practical solutions”.

Scientists brace ‘for the worst’ as Trump purges climate mentions from websites

Trump administration pulling references online ‘won’t make crisis’ stop affecting Americans’ lives, say experts

www.theguardian.com

Trump Issues Executive Order on Climate Change | Sabin Center for Climate Change Law

climate.law.columbia.edu