So maybe when the government knows that they will be flying where decent food at a decent price isn't readily available you should pack a few executive type MREs in the freezer
GG Spending
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Meals are a minor aspect.
Wonder what the loaded cost is for the plane per hour of flight time…
Our Head of Government is representing us whenever she travels and deserves the use of an executive style a/c. In fact, the airbus is very austere when compared to many others. The cost of that a/c is non-negotiable however that does not extend to areas in which we can control costs with a little forethought. It is this lack of foresight and the appearance of entitlement that gets people upset and justifiably so.
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I travelled in the Airbus that had been modified for the PM years ago (I can’t even recall who was PM at the time). It wasn’t austere at all - lounges, bedroom etc.
I would have assumed that is the plane that would have been used (assuming that mod wasn’t scrapped to add more passenger seating…).
I’m not familiar with the RCAF executive aircraft fleet, do they have the legs to do that trip?
My point is that the meals are a rounding error on the trip. Frankly I’d been furious is someone handed me a frozen TV Dinner that had been reheated in a CBU if I was on a 10+ hr flight.
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@KevinB No kidding, we are pretty penny foolish. I worry less about what the single GG costs than what the 338 MPs cost. At least the GG serves some useful ceremonial and PR purposes. Multiple MPs do absolutely nothing, and I'm sure we spend a few million on each of their office costs. let alone any travel they do.
The amount of hand ringing over the cost of getting VIP meals in the desert is frankly a bit embarrassing, given that 11 MPs make up the OGGO committee, and they have now taken up however much time looking at an $80k bill for catering and services, vice looking at multi billion dollar issues like NSS, Air defence procurement, etc. Any one of those will have millions in 'expert 3rd party' reports to confirm what our own SMEs have already summarized in a briefing note or ppt.
The amount of hand ringing over the cost of getting VIP meals in the desert is frankly a bit embarrassing, given that 11 MPs make up the OGGO committee, and they have now taken up however much time looking at an $80k bill for catering and services, vice looking at multi billion dollar issues like NSS, Air defence procurement, etc. Any one of those will have millions in 'expert 3rd party' reports to confirm what our own SMEs have already summarized in a briefing note or ppt.
lenaitch
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"Old Sailor" or "four Aces": "Come alive for a dollar five" (boy, am I dating myself).
Pedant: "She" is our Head of State (representative).
what do you think that airlines serve you? They are all glorified TV dinners even in business/first class. There aren't a lot of carriers that actually prepare food on board. In fact, several airlines serving Africa will carry the return flight meals from home base. A business class meal is definitely not your Swanson variety and, especially on the return trip they are not kept heated until served, only refrigerated so taking them from frozen to service would be a logical next step.
As for our executive fleet, someone far more current than I could advise you on this but several of them can't even leave North America anymore because they lack the necessary transponder equipment. But they do have the legs for trans-Atlantic travel. But even those that are certified haven't got the capacity to accommodate the entourage that a head of state trip requires.
The older 2 x Challenger 601 aircraft with obsolescent avionics were replaced by 2 x Challenger 650, resulting in a mixed fleet of 604 and 650 jets that are compliant with current standards.
An avionics upgrade has been available for 604s since 2017, and according to the 2020 press release, the 604s meet current standards:
Canadian Armed Forces Replaces Two 30-year-old Challenger Aircraft
Based on experience with civilian 650s, a full load would be 12 passengers (possibility of 13 with one pax in the jump seat) with 900 lbs of luggage. There is a small galley up front, and a small lavatory at the rear of the cabin.
Can confirm that aircraft catering can be ridiculously expensive (i.e. 200 USD sandwich platter out of Las Vegas)...
thanks for the update. Glad to see that we have finally caught up.
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I must say this has turned into an interesting thread it what it has shown wrt the disparate perspectives of those participating. Half of us think someone like the GG should be entitled to a higher standard of fare than your average joe, while the other half thing that there shouldn't be an "elite" class anywhere, and everyone should eat/fly at the same standard. Half of us think that, while high, $218/meal is likely "realistic" given all the aggravating costs/circumstances that come with catering overseas, while the other half think it's exorbitant and needs to be dealt with.
And there's there's the few who realized that all the debate/discussion regarding this is probably costing more than the meals did. Didn't the Gomery Commission cost more than the total amount of money that it found was misappropriated?
And there's there's the few who realized that all the debate/discussion regarding this is probably costing more than the meals did. Didn't the Gomery Commission cost more than the total amount of money that it found was misappropriated?
OldSolduer
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I'm with those that think our Head of State and our elected representatives require a decent aircraft and transportation and all the bells and whistles that go with that, within reason of course.
Its part of the cost of being an independent nation. The cost of doing business is far less than the cost of NOT doing business.
Its part of the cost of being an independent nation. The cost of doing business is far less than the cost of NOT doing business.
Blackadder1916
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It's not hand ringing for the sake of austerity, but taking the opportunity to embarrass the government. But the nitpicking of the committee (particularly, as is to be expected, from MPs not of the government party) does occasionally reveal some interesting details.
In this article that provides some more detail about the actual invoiced costs, they note;
"Part of the issue, Wheeler testified during Thursday’s government operations and estimates committee, was giving passengers a choice of more than one meal, as was backed up by receipts that show the number of meals ordered exceeding the number of passengers."
Beef Wellington, $230 flowers: More details on how Governor General spent $99K on catering
Newly-obtained invoices from aircraft catering and ground handling providers in Ottawa, the U.K. and the Middle East reveal the excursion actually cost taxpayers $9…
nationalpost.com
Beef Wellington, $230 flowers: More details on how Governor General spent $99K on catering
Newly-obtained invoices from aircraft catering and ground handling providers in Ottawa, the U.K. and the Middle East reveal the excursion actually cost taxpayers $99,362
Bryan Passifiume Sep 23, 2022
Gourmet meals plated on china, orders of beef Wellington and carpaccio for 50, and $230 in flower arrangements secured from an Ottawa florist.
Department of National Defence receipts obtained by the Canadian Taxpayers Federation and the National Post lay out the total cost of Governor General Mary Simon’s pricey week-long trip to the Middle East earlier this year.
First reported by the National Post in June, responses to an order paper question put the cost of flying and dining the vice-regal and her 29 passengers aboard a Canadian Forces CC150 Polaris to Expo 2020 in Dubai between March 16 and March 24 cost $93,117.89.
Days after that story was published, the Department of National Defence (DND) issued a statement to media claiming the catering bill was actually closer to $80,000 — a number that RCAF Lt.-Gen. Eric Kenney on Thursday admitted wasn’t a final figure.
Newly obtained invoices from aircraft catering and ground handling providers in Ottawa, the U.K. and the Middle East reveal the excursion actually cost taxpayers $99,362, including costs that Canada’s protocol chief Stewart Wheeler — who was among the trip’s 30 passengers — described as “problematic.”
Part of the issue, Wheeler testified during Thursday’s government operations and estimates committee, was giving passengers a choice of more than one meal, as was backed up by receipts that show the number of meals ordered exceeding the number of passengers.
Instructions to a flight catering company from an RCAF flight steward, including special instructions for plated breakfast options for Governor General Mary Simon and husband Whit Fraser during their week-long trip to Expo 2020 in Dubai earlier this year. screencapture
Invoices from GateGourmet at Ottawa Airport show CAF paid $7,657.06 to stock the plane for the trip’s first leg, operating as flight CFC3147 to London Stansfield airport to pick up the Governor General, who was already in the United Kingdom.
That bill included $230 in flower arrangements, $984 worth of Flow-brand boxed water, $165 in lemon and lime slices, and $128 for an undetermined number of cases of Perrier water.
In most cases, quantities and unit prices on the invoices were redacted by the DND.
For lunch, the flight’s 24 passengers had a choice between chicken tikka masala or apple-stuffed pork tenderloin with roasted squash and sautéed Brussels sprouts — plus salad and dessert.
With the vice-regal and seven others boarding the plane in London, AEG Aviation Services charged RCAF $41,408.39 to service the aircraft — including 392 pounds ($579) to hire an explosives detection dog.
Quantities and unit prices were redacted for all but one line item — 75 euros ($110) for four litres of apple juice.
The bill also showed 150 euros ($221.67) for an unknown quantity of orange juice, and 62 euros ($91.59) for cranberry juice.
For the seven-hour flight to Dubai, passengers could choose omelettes or crepes for breakfast, and for lunch ate either chicken scallopini in a creamy mushroom white wine reduction, or beef Wellington.
Franco Terrazzano, federal director of the CTF, was puzzled by the differing numbers offered up as the trip’s total cost.
“It’s bad enough that the Governor General racked up a nearly six-figure tab on airplane food, but it’s made worse because the government can’t get its story straight about how much money was spent,” he said.
“Taxpayers deserve proactive transparency on all of the Governor General’s expenses.”
Instructions for the Governor General’s meals (referred to in correspondence as the “VVIP” (very-very important person)) included re-plating her food on china plates, “with appropriate garnish.”
A redacted invoice for ground service costs for one leg of the Governor General’s week-long Middle East trip to Expo 2020 in Dubai earlier this year. Unit costs and quantities were redacted prior to its release. Screencapture
To prepare for their March 20 departure from Dubai, Monaco-based flight service company Luxavia charged $16,276.75 to restock the plane, with meal options including beef carpaccio, linguine and roasted vegetables.
Listed as a “special request” was 188 euros ($247) for arugula and wild rice salad, plus a 250-euro ($329.22) “concierge fee” for a shopping trip to purchase ingredients.
Also charged were 400 euros ($526.76) for a redacted quantity of lemons and limes, 420 euros ($552.99) for an unknown quantity of ice, and 2,097 euros ($2,761) in “packaging” fees.
Breakfast during the 30-minute flight from Dubai to Doha to meet the Emir of Qatar was a light affair for passengers, consisting of “to-go bags” of either yogurt or smoked salmon bagels.
For Simon and husband Whit Fraser, breakfast consisted of a china-plated choice of masala omelette with chicken sausages and sautéed potatoes, or scrambled eggs with turkey sausage and hash browns.
During their March 23 stopover in Kuwait to tour Ali Al Salem Air Base, the plane was restocked again at a cost of $9,668.17.
Passengers could choose from either grilled salmon with lemon butter or ratatouille with tomato sauce for the flight to London Heathrow, the last stop before home.
The plane took on an additional $12,000 worth of services in London by Royalblue catering.
Details of the menu weren’t included in the documents, but provisions included 3,190 pounds ($4,715.59) in meals, 608 pounds ($898.77) in crew snacks, 1,634 pounds ($2,415) in passenger snacks, and 90 pounds ($133.04) for two kilograms of ice.
In the evidence given during the recent committee hearing the "contingency" factor of ordering more meals than pax/crew (to accommodate choice of meal) was identified by LGen Kenny as one of the changes made to reduce costs in the future. He indicated during the early part of the questioning that the contingency was to be 20%. It was only as the meeting was closing and the chair asked if the members had anything to add that the general was asked (almost as an after thought) what the contingency had been previously (and thus used for this trip); he replied 65%.
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Still, the committee meets about a dozen times a year. Each MP probably costs around $300k a year in basic salary/benefits/allowance, plus all the various admin type folks to support the committees, do running translations, filming etc. probably easily blows past whatever the total catering costs, let alone future cost savings.
So for a bit of political grandstanding the taxpayers probably covered a few million in costs to look at how we could have saved $20k. That's just dumb, and then we probably also blew through far more than that in staff time compiling the receipts, putting together briefings.
This could have easily been looked at by some kind of junior PBO auditor, but doesn't really have the same 'gotcha' energy as a $14 orange juice. Lot of BS politics that ultimately does nothing for the real issues people are dealing with.
So for a bit of political grandstanding the taxpayers probably covered a few million in costs to look at how we could have saved $20k. That's just dumb, and then we probably also blew through far more than that in staff time compiling the receipts, putting together briefings.
This could have easily been looked at by some kind of junior PBO auditor, but doesn't really have the same 'gotcha' energy as a $14 orange juice. Lot of BS politics that ultimately does nothing for the real issues people are dealing with.
Halifax Tar
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I don't know. Lots of good folks in this country are struggling to put food in their kids mouths, and praying that something major doesn't happen because they don't have the capitol to field that ball, yet we see opulent spending like the above.
Like I have said previously, I get big diplomatic dinners and functions where intonational relations and deals are brokered need a certain level of service, and I am cool with that. But flights too and from ? I just cant get on board with this. But then again I don't tend to hold my political masters in an elevated level. They are just people.
I like you don't like political points being made of it. It would be nice if all parties could agree it should be reigned in.
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Yeah the whole 65% extra meal aspect is a little silly - with a fixed manifest it is pretty easy to make a meal selection prior.
Have a limited amount of spares for spoilage etc - but 5-10% is reasonable, and hard to argue more are needed.
Halifax Tar
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I thought we had a thread on the GG already but I couldn't find it. Feel free to redirect if I missed it.
From the article linked below:
According to documents submitted to the committee, first reported by the National Post, Simon and her passengers ran up a roughly $80,000 tab for food costs during the trip.
Passengers had access to nearly $1,000 worth of Flow boxed water, GBP£1,683 — or more than $2,800 — of an unknown quantity of beef Wellington with red wine jus, and 420 euros ($604) of an unknown quantity of ice cubes, among other snacks and refreshments.
“The costs of the catering were unacceptable,” Christine MacIntyre, the deputy secretary to the Governor General of Canada, told the committee.
globalnews.ca
From the article linked below:
According to documents submitted to the committee, first reported by the National Post, Simon and her passengers ran up a roughly $80,000 tab for food costs during the trip.
Passengers had access to nearly $1,000 worth of Flow boxed water, GBP£1,683 — or more than $2,800 — of an unknown quantity of beef Wellington with red wine jus, and 420 euros ($604) of an unknown quantity of ice cubes, among other snacks and refreshments.
“The costs of the catering were unacceptable,” Christine MacIntyre, the deputy secretary to the Governor General of Canada, told the committee.
Gov. Gen. Mary Simon’s $1.1M-trip cost ‘similar’ to other high-level visits: officials - National | Globalnews.ca
'The costs of the catering were unacceptable,' one official told the House of Commons committee probing the Governor General travel expenses.
globalnews.ca
Spencer100
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If there is one thing one learn here who knows what is in the costs. Everything is seems when cost are announced or found out is what is the angle of the one doing the announcing. Did the catering include just the outside contractor? Or was in it also the whole cost? With personnel, equipment, fuel and indirect costs deprecation, pensions and overheads etc. The whole government accounting is so infuriating.I thought we had a thread on the GG already but I couldn't find it. Feel free to redirect if I missed it.
From the article linked below:
According to documents submitted to the committee, first reported by the National Post, Simon and her passengers ran up a roughly $80,000 tab for food costs during the trip.
Passengers had access to nearly $1,000 worth of Flow boxed water, GBP£1,683 — or more than $2,800 — of an unknown quantity of beef Wellington with red wine jus, and 420 euros ($604) of an unknown quantity of ice cubes, among other snacks and refreshments.
“The costs of the catering were unacceptable,” Christine MacIntyre, the deputy secretary to the Governor General of Canada, told the committee.
Gov. Gen. Mary Simon’s $1.1M-trip cost ‘similar’ to other high-level visits: officials - National | Globalnews.ca
'The costs of the catering were unacceptable,' one official told the House of Commons committee probing the Governor General travel expenses.
Also what are the motivations. The GG overspending is really not a problem for the Liberal government all they have to say is look the GG overspent.....we will stop that. And they just lower GG budget. This is a win for them. The PM is not a fan of a GG stealing some of the spot light.
If opposition is the one complaining they can just say see the government overspent! Elect us we know better.
Then there is the Canadian public....the super cheap bastards that we are. "Look the GG is living in the lap of luxury on our dime and is not even elected." I would bet her salary that Canada has the cheapest head of state office in the world. (Britain covers the big stuff we cover the visits and a body in the office, a pile of bricks and some security.)
Anyone know what the PMO costs are for protocol, travel and housing vs the GG office for the same?
Blackadder1916
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GG Spending
one way to look at it, I ordered a pizza last night in Ottawa, had it delivered. I could of driven to the Pizza Place but I wanted to have it delivered . I paid a extra fee $3.50 for delivery service, then was expected to tip on top on that for the driver. So I know paid an extra $5 for a tip...
army.ca
Halifax Tar
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GG Spending
one way to look at it, I ordered a pizza last night in Ottawa, had it delivered. I could of driven to the Pizza Place but I wanted to have it delivered . I paid a extra fee $3.50 for delivery service, then was expected to tip on top on that for the driver. So I know paid an extra $5 for a tip...
Ack thank you! Mods please combine
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