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Gangs in the military

There are guys in with the nazi stuff,one guy even has it as glow in the dark.Another guy has the whole SS motto tattooed on this forearm in broad sight.Thats just what I've seen.Don't think we have a gang problem just guys with twisted pasts.

Then their superiors are either asleep or ignorant of the policy.
 
kincanucks said:
Well we look for racist or gang tattoos in recruiting here but in the US who knows.

When I did my medical two weeks ago they quite thoroughly checked all my tattoos and made me explain anything they couldn't figure out, and they seemed quite specifically concerned with them being gang affiliated. If that's the standard policy then I bet very little gets by in Canada at least.
 
Member of my platoon in Cornwallis (78) was ex Satan's Choice. He was offered prison or military. He was constantly being dragged off by the MP's during training. IIRC he went infantry.
 
Kincanuuk,

And if, during the medical, they are found to have gang tat's, then we...do what??

I am not aware of this policy.  (my only tattoo is a Canadian flag on my left shoulder, no one has ever questioned what "gang" I belong to   ;D
 
rcac_011 said:
Do you have a source on that?As I remember hearing the rumor as a airborne guy from petawawa going over to chapeau and doing it.

Sounds like urban myth to me....

never charged?So If I ever get caught DUI or something stupid, I can bring up that a vandoo gutted a guy with a machete didn't get charged!!!That should get me off with a warning!

There are guys in with the nazi stuff,one guy even has it as glow in the dark.Another guy has the whole SS motto tattooed on this forearm in broad sight.Thats just what I've seen.Don't think we have a gang problem just guys with twisted pasts.

Just mess talk from old timers, maybe it is just a myth.  8)
 
Member of my platoon in Cornwallis (78) was ex Satan's Choice. He was offered prison or military. He was constantly being dragged off by the MP's during training. IIRC he went infantry.

Then i'm assuming the laws were much different back then.  Someone would never be offered a choice like that now (atleast I hope to god not)

The last thing this army needs are criminals with no choice but to serve time or serve the army.  That can never end up good...
 
I believe changes were made in the early 80's. He was a tough cookie though. Nearly all members of the plt were 20 or younger and he was about 26 or 27.
 
Mud Recce Man said:
Kincanuuk,

And if, during the medical, they are found to have gang tat's, then we...do what??

I am not aware of this policy.  (my only tattoo is a Canadian flag on my left shoulder, no one has ever questioned what "gang" I belong to   ;D

If the individual has a tattoo that is deemed to be racist, pornographic, harassing, discriminatory then the individual goes back to the MCC to explain why they have the tattoo (s) and under what circumstances it was done.  If the explanation is acceptable then the tattoo must be altered or removed and if the explanation is not acceptable then further investigation of the applicant's attitudes, beliefs and associations is required and if those attitudes, beliefs and associations are found to contravene the Harassment and Racism policy then that individual will not be processed any further.
 
The urban look, rap music, signing and other gang associated behaviors are very much a part of life for many young people. Most of them aren't involved in criminal activity. Although I might not particularly like that sort of thing myself, it doesn't mean that the kid who does this stuff shouldn't be allowed to enlist. New enlistees to the US armed forces undergo a thorough background check called an ENTNAC before they ship downrange to training. The ENTNAC is an automated records search. In addition, the recruiter of record is responsible to do a local records check before the candidate goes to enlist into the delayed entry program. Also, the enlistee goes thru a security interview at MEPSA while going into the DEP. You'd be amazed at some of the stuff kids reveal at MEPS.

Ideally, the ENTNAC is done months before the shipper goes to training. But if a kid is a same day shipper, the results might not be back until after he/she is downrange in basic training. If a kid comes back with a hit on his ENTNAC and doesn't already have a signed waiver for it with a control number, he automatically gets discharged, whether still in the DEP, or in basic training. The bottom line is that the US armed forces are pretty hard on prior criminal activity. I was an Army recruiter from 92-95. If a kid has a misdemeanor,  he needs a battalion level waiver to enlist. He can't be on probation and all stipulations of the sentence have to be completed. Felonies need a USAREC waiver and there's a list of crimes that make someone ineligible for military service at all. (Things like rape, homicide, felony drug crimes, etc—it's pretty long) If a kid stole a car back in the 90's, let's say, he would need to get a felony waiver and IF the waiver were approved, he would be pretty limited in what MOS he could choose due to the security risks.

I know the armed forces have new restrictions on tattoes for enlistees, but they're after my time so I can't comment on this subject with any knowledge. Many somebody else can fill in the blanks?
 
Good information to know on all accounts.  I can't see this being even a minor issue in the CF, but who knows anything is possible.

I'd like clarification on that Vandoo rumour, sounds a bit far fetched to me.
 
No need to start a new thread so I 'm putting this here.


http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1152222611298&call_pageid=970599119419


Hate groups feared in army
U.S. watchdog calls for stricter enforcement
Iraq recruiting shortfalls blamed for infiltration
Jul. 7, 2006. 12:29 AM
JOHN KIFNER
NEW YORK TIMES

A decade after the Pentagon declared a zero-tolerance policy for racist hate groups, recruiting shortfalls caused by the war in Iraq have allowed "large numbers of neo-Nazis and skinhead extremists" to infiltrate the military, according to a watchdog organization.

The Southern Poverty Law Center, which tracks racist and right-wing militia groups, estimated that the numbers could run into the thousands, citing interviews with U.S. Defence Department investigators and reports and postings on racist websites and magazines.

"We've got Aryan Nations graffiti in Baghdad," the group quoted a Defence Department investigator as saying in a report to be posted today on its website, http://www.splcenter.org.

A Defence Department spokeswoman said officials there could not comment on the report because they had not yet seen it.

The centre called on U.S. Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to appoint a task force to study the problem, declare a new zero-tolerance policy and strictly enforce it.

The report said that neo-Nazi groups like the National Alliance, whose founder, William Pierce, wrote The Turner Diaries, the novel that was the inspiration and blueprint for Timothy McVeigh's bombing of the Oklahoma City federal building, sought to enrol followers in the army to get training for a race war. The groups are being abetted, the report says, by pressure on recruiters, particularly for the army, to meet quotas that are more difficult to reach because of the growing unpopularity of the war in Iraq.

The report quotes Scott Barfield, a Defence Department investigator, saying, "Recruiters are knowingly allowing neo-Nazis and white supremacists to join the armed forces, and commanders don't remove them from the military even after we positively identify them as extremists or gang members."'

Barfield said army recruiters struggled last year to meet goals. ``They don't want to make a big deal again about neo-Nazis in the military," he said, "because then parents who are already worried about their kids signing up and dying in Iraq are going to be even more reluctant about their kids enlisting .''

The 1996 crackdown on extremists came after revelations that McVeigh had espoused far-right ideas when he was in the army and recruited two fellow soldiers to aid his bomb plot.

The defence secretary at the time, William Perry, said the rules were meant to leave no room for extremist activities within the military. But the report said Barfield, who is based at Fort Lewis, Wash., had said that he had provided evidence on 320 extremists there in the past year, but that only two had been discharged. He also said there was an online network of neo-Nazis.

 
Nemo888 said:
Just mess talk from old timers, maybe it is just a myth.  8)

No not a myth. Young fellow in '85 just posted to 1 Cdo went over to Fort Coulange(sp) got into a mix-up with some of the locals, pulled out a machete and killed one of the locals. Don't know for sure whether he actually "decapitated" the guy but I know he was charged with murder and was released from the forces!

So to reiterate, not just "mess talk" nor "urban myth" just hard, cold reality. Keep in mind the member was only in the Airborne for approx. a week before this, not even enough time for him to do his AIC or even a para refresher!
 
2 Cdo said:
No not a myth. Young fellow in '85 just posted to 1 Cdo went over to Fort Coulange(sp) got into a mix-up with some of the locals, pulled out a machete and killed one of the locals. Don't know for sure whether he actually "decapitated" the guy but I know he was charged with murder and was released from the forces!

So to reiterate, not just "mess talk" nor "urban myth" just hard, cold reality. Keep in mind the member was only in the Airborne for approx. a week before this, not even enough time for him to do his AIC or even a para refresher!

And you know the media/locals would not know the difference in any of that..heck most of the military doesn't know what AIC is/was (I am not sure they still do that anymore).
 
Mud Recce Man said:
And you know the media/locals would not know the difference in any of that..heck most of the military doesn't know what AIC is/was (I am not sure they still do that anymore).

Airborne Indoc Course?
 
Mud Recce Man said:
(I am not sure they still do that anymore).
following the Disbandment, it was dropped from the curriculum. When we (Battle School graduating courses) first started being filtered into what was then called the Light Infantry Battalion, and became 3 RCR, us new troopies were put through an unofficial AIC to bring us up to speed by the NCOs, 90% of whom were 3 Cdo. It dropped from view after the first two years. The OC and Sgt-Maj of 3 RCR Para Coy in 2000-2001 ran another unofficial AIC. I've not heard of it being done anywhere else. But, I would think that something similar was done in the light Battalions of both other Regiments, at least in the first couple years.

Anybody have more info?
 
I believe 3 PPCLI conducted "something" back during their initial start-up but I don't know for sure if it was an AIC or not. Sorry, I'll try to get more info.
 
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