g-wagon crew commander

[redseer]

I've been looking for alternatives to the LUVW-Milcot (Silverado) as PRes Arty for certain live fire exercises, and the G-wagon (LUVW) has been suggested.  However when I inquired with the local armoured recce regiment I was informed that there has to be a qualified crew commander in their g-wagons to take them to the field.  So even though I have qualified drivers, without qualified crew commanders this seems like a no go. 

1. I'm wondering if this is just an armoured requirement, as other trades use the g-wagon in the field and I'm uncertain if they'd all have the crew commander qualification (RegF Arty, MPs). 
2. Is crew commander part of armd recce MOC trg or is it a separate crse that would be available to others (like driver or comms)?

Ubique.

 

[Towards_the_gap]

:facepalm:


G-Wagon crew commanders?

Sounds like someone is just finding a reason to say no to you. I have never heard of this requirement.

 

[Ostrozac]

In 1RCR the LUVW (G-Wagon) was driven like a truck, with no thought given to the qualifications of the guy in the front passenger seat, all anyone cared about was the driver's 404s. That being said, ours were the "soccer-mom" variant -- without a machine gun mount on top. I can't speak to the machine gun version.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

I've been looking for alternatives to the LSVW (Silverado) as PRes Arty for certain live fire exercises, and the G-wagon (LUVW) has been suggested.  However when I inquired with the local armoured recce regiment I was informed that there has to be a qualified crew commander in their g-wagons to take them to the field.  So even though I have qualified drivers, without qualified crew commanders this seems like a no go. 

BTW the LSVW is not a Silverado...

LUVW-SMP is the G-Wagon while the LUVW-Milcots is the Silverado. The LSVW is a vehicle of its own....

 

[redseer]

Thanks for the catch, removed the LSVW reference.

I suspect the crew commander issue is in reference to the cupola, but I still wonder if this requirement is actually written down, or just SOP for the unit.  And does it change if there won't be anyone in the hatch.

 

[Franko]

You got the Armour answer.

They probably thought you were going to be conducting a C6 range. To fire a C6 from a LUVW, you require a Recce crew commander.

He/ she would be in control of the vehicle and the weapon operator or would operate the weapon themselves.

The range must be static, no battle runs at all. It's an unstabilized platform and unsafe to be fired from during peacetime.

Contact the Army IG Team in Gagetown, they can fill you in on the requirements if need be.

Or.....just fire them on the ground.

Now if you're just going to the field, they may have a unit SOP that their vehicles will be commanded. Ask questions through their Ops.

Regards

 

[redseer]

They probably thought you were going to be conducting a C6 range. To fire a C6 from a LUVW, you require a Recce crew commander.

Thanks for the insight, it hadn't even occurred to me that they'd think that.  I just want the G-Wagon for it's superior mobility and veh mount radio.  Milcots get stuck fairly easily, and only a 1/4 of ours have radios.  I'll talk to their ops as you suggest and see if that's where the hangup is.  I don't even want to take C6s, just a remote kit.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Thanks for the insight, it hadn't even occurred to me that they'd think that.  I just want the G-Wagon for it's superior mobility and veh mount radio.  Milcots get stuck fairly easily, and only a 1/4 of ours have radios.  I'll talk to their ops as you suggest and see if that's where the hangup is.  I don't even want to take C6s, just a remote kit.

Do you mean you don't have enough radios or that you don't have the mounts for them?

 

[George Wallace]

I've been looking for alternatives to the LUVW-Milcot (Silverado) as PRes Arty for certain live fire exercises, and the G-wagon (LUVW) has been suggested.  However when I inquired with the local armoured recce regiment I was informed that there has to be a qualified crew commander in their g-wagons to take them to the field.  So even though I have qualified drivers, without qualified crew commanders this seems like a no go. 

1. I'm wondering if this is just an armoured requirement, as other trades use the g-wagon in the field and I'm uncertain if they'd all have the crew commander qualification (RegF Arty, MPs).

Having read all the rest of the posts, I wonder if you fully explained what and why you wanted the loan of their g-wagen.  If you clearly stated why you wanted it, I think Towards_the_gap answered it.

2. Is crew commander part of armd recce MOC trg or is it a separate crse that would be available to others (like driver or comms)?

Yes it is.

:facepalm:


G-Wagon crew commanders?

Sounds like someone is just finding a reason to say no to you. I have never heard of this requirement.

 

[Jarnhamar]

:facepalm:


G-Wagon crew commanders?

Sounds like someone is just finding a reason to say no to you. I have never heard of this requirement.

Yup!

 

[Fishbone Jones]

As dictated to the armour reserves, by the school and the corps, in order to move a GWagon, tactically, it requires a qualified crew commander.

Otherwise it's a truck. Tell them you need it only to carry the radio.

However, having said that, to ensure that they are cared for and operated properly, it is not unusual for the Regiment to send a crew with it. They will drive it around for you.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I just want the G-Wagon for it's superior mobility

But of course!    8)

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Back in the day, we had the BCR work with us and found it interesting to see how each unit operates, maybe offer to have them crew them and then their TC's can pick up some arty stuff and visa versa.

 

[Shamrock]

Army Vehicle Crew Commander, competency AJPL, aims to enable personnel to be employed as a Army Vehicle Crew Commander who is accountable and responsible for all aspects of the vehicle and crew.

Centre of Excellence is RCACS.

Edit:  It is open to all MOSID.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Army Vehicle Crew Commander, competency AJPL, aims to enable personnel to be employed as a Army Vehicle Crew Commander who is accountable and responsible for all aspects of the vehicle and crew.

Centre of Excellence is RCACS.

Edit:  It is open to all MOSID.

Would that be the AVAMS course?

 

[Shamrock]

No, Armoured Vehicle Administrative Movement is another course but it is one of the prerequisites to AVCC.

 

[dangerboy]

Would that be the AVAMS course?

AVAMS allows a pers to command an armoured vehicle on an administrative road move, nothing tactical.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Thanks, brain fart moment on that course..as I took it many moons ago.....

 

[McG]

... Armoured Vehicle Administrative Movement is another course but it is one of the prerequisites to AVCC.

Which is absolutely foolish as the PRes requires AVCC for tactical employment of turreted GWagon, but the PRes has no use for AVAMs as they have no armoured vehicles.  Neither should be a prerequisit for the other.

These are two courses that need a strong re-think.  For Reg F combat arms (and even some Ref F CS & CSS) the AVAMs qualification should be embedded in the DP1 training.  AVCC should be in PLQ(L) and in officer DP1 for both Reg F and PRes.
Unit time should not be wasted delivering repeated annual serials of these check-in-the-box courses.  Brigades can run one or two annually for those occupations that do not warrant the qualification within core MOS courses.

 

[Ludoc]

Which is absolutely foolish as the PRes requires AVCC for tactical employment of turreted GWagon, but the PRes has no use for AVAMs as they have no armoured vehicles.  Neither should be a prerequisit for the other.

These are two courses that need a strong re-think.  For Reg F combat arms (and even some Ref F CS & CSS) the AVAMs qualification should be embedded in the DP1 training.  AVCC should be in PLQ(L) and in officer DP1 for both Reg F and PRes.
Unit time should not be wasted delivering repeated annual serials of these check-in-the-box courses.  Brigades can run one or two annually for those occupations that do not warrant the qualification within core MOS courses.

AVAMs is a week long course that should be compressed into a day or two at most. It does not take a week to teach someone how to check blind spots and tell the driver they are clear to proceed at a stop sign.

In fact, if I had my way it wouldn't even be a formal qualification. One of the things that bugs me most about the CAF is not being able to get stuff done because not enough people are qualified (have received the formal course) to do something that should be common sense. There is a lot of value having courses run to a certain standard with Standards pers making sure everything is above board and I am glad somethings are taught that way. However, I wish we could write off simple quals like AVAMS at the unit level without having to go through the trouble of running a formal course.