Freedom Convoy protests [Split from All things 2019-nCoV]

[Halifax Tar]

Very true. In our governments case their is a lot they believe the public doesn't need to know. From our politicians being compromised by foreign countries to trying to hide fiscal details about the PMs vacations (that has no impact on national security). They disdain Parliament oversight.

In the case of the emergencies act I read the Liberal party wanted to use their own definition of what an emergency was to justify enacting it - but refused to disclose what that definition is.

Hence just imagine what kind kind of shadow OICs they snuck through.

My concern with the current Gov is that they would pass secret OICs that would have nothing to do with bettering the country and everything to do with their own political aspirations and survival.

IMHO, if this enacting of the EMA is to be found unjustified, I would like to see those secret OICs passed during that time exposed to the public. Again IMHO if our Gov is proven to have unjustifiably used the "Legislation of last resort" then anything conducted during that period of time is suspect and deserves public dissection.

From where I sit the use of the EMA isn't something akin to pack of F18s we can just whip out willy nilly. If we are to use it, clear and present danger to the existence of Canada must be present.

But I also think this should have triggered the GG to dissolve Parliament and forced an election.

 

[FSTO]

Today's G&M Cartoon is quite appropriate.

 

[TacticalTea]

But I also think this should have triggered the GG to dissolve Parliament and forced an election.

Yes, I was just thinking about that.

There should be a mechanism allowing the GG to unilaterally dissolve when the government takes action that is shown to violate the constitution.

Unsure of specifics at this time.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Yes, I was just thinking about that.

There should be a mechanism allowing the GG to unilaterally dissolve when the government takes action that is shown to violate the constitution.

Unsure of specifics at this time.

Why? That gives the GG (an unelected, appointed official) way too much influence and unblanaces the entire Westminster system. Even the Queen was very careful at not criticizing the British HoP when they were a burning, corrupt and incompetent dumpster fire openly breaking their own laws.

Parliament has all kinds of tools to govern itself, they just need to use them. If they don't like the secrecy of the OIC process, change the process. It is a minority government after all, so they could pass it if they worked together, regardless of what the LPC wanted, but that would require compromise and cooperating like adults.

 

[Good2Golf]

It is a minority government after all, so they could pass it if they worked together, regardless of what the LPC wanted

 

[Navy_Pete]

View attachment 82661

The LPC has 157 of 338 seats; the CPC, NDP and others could work together to pass a piece of legislation with the remaining 181 votes, as there are a number of opportunities to update legislation put forward by private member bills. This isn't a confidence motion issue so wouldn't bring the minority government down.

 

[brihard]

Just imagine if the City of Ottawa/Ottawa Police Service had actually done their jobs in the first place, all of this angst over the role of the federal government would have been avoided and we could go on to dislike them for other reasons.

Some of the POEC commission testimony and documents are pretty descriptive of how OPS chief Sloly was involving himself in operational decision making and conflicting with senior operational managers who were responsible for handling the event. It’s not flattering for him. Reading between the lines on some of it it appears that some other police were at the point of raising concerns about his acute mental health and fitness to make decisions.

 

[TacticalTea]

Why? That gives the GG (an unelected, appointed official) way too much influence and unblanaces the entire Westminster system. Even the Queen was very careful at not criticizing the British HoP when they were a burning, corrupt and incompetent dumpster fire openly breaking their own laws.

Parliament has all kinds of tools to govern itself, they just need to use them. If they don't like the secrecy of the OIC process, change the process. It is a minority government after all, so they could pass it if they worked together, regardless of what the LPC wanted, but that would require compromise and cooperating like adults.

Answer is in the question.

Besides, the whole point of having a monarchy is to prevent constitutional subversion of the state. My stance perfectly aligns with that.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Answer is in the question.

Besides, the whole point of having a monarchy is to prevent constitutional subversion of the state. My stance perfectly aligns with that.

The monarchy was made into a figurehead in the UK a long time ago with the reforms though (following violent rebellion), and has no real authority in the UK. The GG also has no real authority in Canada.

The status quo with the GG and the constitutional monarchy works because it's too much effort to change the constitution to eliminate a purely symbolic set of positions.

Reopening the Constitution to give the GG this kind of authority (and also the LGs over provincial parliments) would more likely result in them being eliminated all together. If you think Alberta is pissy now, suggest giving their LG power to shut down their provincial house.

Replacing a system that isn't working because of the people in it, with another system that also relies on people is a bit of a 3 card monty. At the end of the day, easier to just hold people accountable in the first place. In practical terms in short term that's things like contacting your MP directly, opinion polls etc, and then eventually the ballot box.

 

[Lumber]

So yes bouncy castles = war measures. Is the best and most truthfull way to put it.

No, it's not. It's glib and reductionist.

 

[Good2Golf]

The LPC has 157 of 338 seats; the CPC, NDP and others could work together to pass a piece of legislation with the remaining 181 votes, as there are a number of opportunities to update legislation put forward by private member bills. This isn't a confidence motion issue so wouldn't bring the minority government down.

I would have believed you if you questioned whether the de facto coalition majority would stay together to rebuff a CPC and/or BQ pushback.

Do you honestly think current parliament composition would work collaboratively with an aim to increasing transparency and public accountability?

 

[Lumber]

Nobody's minds have been changed from this court case.

Call me petty but for me, I enjoy seeing the egg on the current cabinet's face. They remind me of the pious evangelical railing about the evils of homosexuality while performing fellatio in the local spa. They are so sure in their righteousness that they are stunned, STUNNED when the great unwashed don't kiss their feet.

The only thing I miss is the astonished look on Marco Mendocino's face when he is hit with the latest out of the blue (for him) self inflicted crisis.

View attachment 82654

I just to say that Skippy had a punchable face, but this guy....

 

[Halifax Tar]

The monarchy was made into a figurehead in the UK a long time ago with the reforms though (following violent rebellion), and has no real authority in the UK. The GG also has no real authority in Canada.

The status quo with the GG and the constitutional monarchy works because it's too much effort to change the constitution to eliminate a purely symbolic set of positions.

Reopening the Constitution to give the GG this kind of authority (and also the LGs over provincial parliments) would more likely result in them being eliminated all together. If you think Alberta is pissy now, suggest giving their LG power to shut down their provincial house.

Replacing a system that isn't working because of the people in it, with another system that also relies on people is a bit of a 3 card monty. At the end of the day, easier to just hold people accountable in the first place. In practical terms in short term that's things like contacting your MP directly, opinion polls etc, and then eventually the ballot box.

The governor general - Canada.ca

The role of the Governor General in representing Her Majesty The Queen.

www.canada.ca

The role and responsibilities of the governor general​

In 1947, Letters Patent Constituting the Office of the governor general of Canada (under King George VI) authorized the governor general to exercise most of the Crown's powers on behalf of the Sovereign.

The governor general has important parliamentary responsibilities:

• summoning, proroguing and dissolving Parliament
• setting out the government’s program by reading the Speech from the Throne
• giving Royal Assent, which brings parliamentary bills into law
  
  

What's the point of the GG, and our constitutional monarchy, if at least the specter of them working for their people doesn't exist ? If they are just a rubber stamp do away with them and the tax burden.

 

[Furniture]

The monarchy was made into a figurehead in the UK a long time ago with the reforms though (following violent rebellion), and has no real authority in the UK. The GG also has no real authority in Canada.

The status quo with the GG and the constitutional monarchy works because it's too much effort to change the constitution to eliminate a purely symbolic set of positions.

Reopening the Constitution to give the GG this kind of authority (and also the LGs over provincial parliments) would more likely result in them being eliminated all together. If you think Alberta is pissy now, suggest giving their LG power to shut down their provincial house.

Replacing a system that isn't working because of the people in it, with another system that also relies on people is a bit of a 3 card monty. At the end of the day, easier to just hold people accountable in the first place. In practical terms in short term that's things like contacting your MP directly, opinion polls etc, and then eventually the ballot box.

You don't need to reopen anything... amend the EA to include that after the commission's report is released parliament is dissolved, and a new election takes place.

It gives enough time for the public to figure out whether or not in their minds the EA was justified, and forces governments to maybe be a bit more cautious in using it.

 

[Navy_Pete]

I would have believed you if you questioned whether the de facto coalition majority would stay together to rebuff a CPC and/or BQ pushback.

Do you honestly think current parliament composition would work collaboratively with an aim to increasing transparency and public accountability?

No, they haven't demonstrated the ability to basic adult at all, let alone do anything for the public good. Across the board they are all about what they can do for their party, not Canadian public writ large, and will push a lot of harmful bullshit specifically for their special interest areas.

Can you imagine anyone trying to act like an MP in a normal work setting? It would be a nightmare, and is the kind of workplace where you get HVAC guys cutting out structural timber to run ducting or drywallers covering walls before the electrical is done or inspections or completed.

I suspect there are reasonable MPs that would be happy to work cross parties to actually get things done, but most of the Cabinet, shadow cabinet etc seem more content to be insufferable pricks to each other in public to get that 15 second clip for tikkie tock or whatever stupidity they push. Bunch of idiot children that would rather hog toys then run the country competently.

 

[Lumber]

You don't need to reopen anything... amend the EA to include that after the commission's report is released parliament is dissolved, and a new election takes place.

It gives enough time for the public to figure out whether or not in their minds the EA was justified, and forces governments to maybe be a bit more cautious in using it.

Are you saying that in all cases parliament should be dissolved, even if there an actual justifiable emergency, and the commission and and subsequent courts determine the same?

 

[Halifax Tar]

Are you saying that in all cases parliament should be dissolved, even if there an actual justifiable emergency, and the commission and and subsequent courts determine the same?

I wont speak for @Furniture but I suspect his intent is in scenarios like ours.

I would add a caveat that it would have to be delayed until any appeals are completed, and the finding is still against its usage.

 

[Lumber]

I wont speak for @Furniture but I suspect his intent is in scenarios like ours.

I would add a caveat that it would have to be delayed until any appeals are completed, and the finding is still against its usage.

I think this is a good idea. The view I alluded to (doing it in all cases regardless of what the determination is) I would disagree with.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I think this is a good idea. The view I alluded to (doing it in all cases regardless of what the determination is) I would disagree with.

I concur.

Jesus @Lumber I think we've agreed twice now in the last year... Someone check the temperature of hell

 

[TacticalTea]

I don't agree on waiting for appeals, though. That would risk excessively delaying the process. I think the Federal Court should be seen as trustworthy enough to give the GG legitimacy to make his or her decision.