Brad Sallows
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Why? My point is that politicians fear-monger, which covers a lot more ground than the single plot you've staked out for yourself.
Freedom Convoy protests [Split from All things 2019-nCoV]
- Thread starter Quirky
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QV
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Peterson has “escape velocity”, he won’t be negatively impacted by this financially. In fact, I think you’re right, he’ll gain in popularity. But this isn’t about him. It’s about sending a message to everyone else who doesn’t have the escape velocity Peterson does, and the message is this: if you go against the narrative we‘ll wreck you.
You chose to reply to me; I’m just staying with the topic I was actually on.
Eaglelord17
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The part that amazes me is his opinions by and large wouldn’t even cause a ounce of outrage 20 years ago. Not saying I agree with everything he says, but he certainly makes good points on many topics.
IKnowNothing
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No credible threat of success, but a legitimate attempt.
Whatever you think of the immediate government response, some of the organizers are getting off very lightly
Oldgateboatdriver
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If the "threat of overthrowing the government" is the issue, then we seriously need explanations and for the press to do its job, which is to educate the public.
Earlier in this forum ,someone mentioned the removal of the "duly elected government" of Canada. That is an impossibility as we do not and have never in our history elected a government. The Government of Canada is headed by the King, and he appoints someone as Prime Minister and asks her/him to form a governement of the day, but the actual "Governement" composed of King, ministers and public servants is permanent - there must always be one. If we elected governements, Erin O'Toole would be PM because he garnered the most votes across Canada.
We only elect our Members of Parliament and their only powers against the governement are to (1) hold the various ministers accountable to Parliament (something in short supply and disappearing fast as political parties have usurped Parliaments powers) and (2) withdraw their confidence in a siting Prime Minister, causing the King to either replace him/her with someone else who does have the confidence of the lower chamber or call a general election.
To overthrow the Government of Canada, they had better be circling and manifesting around Rideau Hall ... or Buckingham Palace. But then what? Create a Republic?
At most, they disrupted the operation of Parliament (and even that did not really happen as they never moved in to take control of Parliamnet hill or directly threaten any of the MP refusing to do their biding. Their anger was directed at the decisions of the siting PM and his ministers. They could call for his removal, but only the King or the House of Commons could effect such removal. Yet, even that would not be overthrowing governement. It would be continuation of the governemetn under a new PM and council of ministers.
So while asking for removal of the PM and his replacemetn by a group that included them, they were basically exercising their freedom of expression - loudly and annoyingly - in a situation where it was impossible for them to succeed.
Earlier in this forum ,someone mentioned the removal of the "duly elected government" of Canada. That is an impossibility as we do not and have never in our history elected a government. The Government of Canada is headed by the King, and he appoints someone as Prime Minister and asks her/him to form a governement of the day, but the actual "Governement" composed of King, ministers and public servants is permanent - there must always be one. If we elected governements, Erin O'Toole would be PM because he garnered the most votes across Canada.
We only elect our Members of Parliament and their only powers against the governement are to (1) hold the various ministers accountable to Parliament (something in short supply and disappearing fast as political parties have usurped Parliaments powers) and (2) withdraw their confidence in a siting Prime Minister, causing the King to either replace him/her with someone else who does have the confidence of the lower chamber or call a general election.
To overthrow the Government of Canada, they had better be circling and manifesting around Rideau Hall ... or Buckingham Palace. But then what? Create a Republic?
At most, they disrupted the operation of Parliament (and even that did not really happen as they never moved in to take control of Parliamnet hill or directly threaten any of the MP refusing to do their biding. Their anger was directed at the decisions of the siting PM and his ministers. They could call for his removal, but only the King or the House of Commons could effect such removal. Yet, even that would not be overthrowing governement. It would be continuation of the governemetn under a new PM and council of ministers.
So while asking for removal of the PM and his replacemetn by a group that included them, they were basically exercising their freedom of expression - loudly and annoyingly - in a situation where it was impossible for them to succeed.
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Please, Please, Please: EVERYONE read and understand this.IKnowNothing
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I'd say that "asking" and demanding under threat of "choking out" a city are fundamentally different actions.
But honestly, the thing I can't get past is the hilarious irony and lack of self-awareness in a group of people trying to combat tyranny by attempting to extort their way into power, with the stated intent of wielding that power like a club to commit a ridiculously blatant and sweeping act of Federal over reach.
That’s the part the government is so bad at, and I don’t think it’s by design.
They tried to convince almost 40 million people of a narrative that, by and large, didn’t exist.
Or they tried to convince 40 million people that only one narrative was possible before we even knew what we were really dealing with, and blatantly censored & shunned many scientists who had started to suggest theories different than the one the government was pushing.
They did this in an era where those people could still be heard, and the attempts to silence them were easy to observe - which simply cast doubt on the government’s own agenda, rather than actually silence the people they were trying to.
Anytime a government tries to ‘cancel’ a public figure such as JP - all they will end up doing is giving that entity more popularity, and more credibility.
Only those with an agenda make a deliberate effort to silence others who’s opinion differs, and I think people inherently/instinctively know that.
(Justin Trudeau can’t possibly hope to stand toe to toe in verbal communication against someone like JP. I doubt any of us could either, but we aren’t the ones trying to cancel someone who is quite intelligent, articulate, and has a growing global following.)
I don’t think the stated intent was ever to oust the PM, or usurp the PM with their own person & use the powers inherent within the PMO to “blatantly swing like a club.”
I don’t even think they had a person in mind to take over that position, had that even been their intent.
I won’t wade into this too far, because in national level situations like this I’m sure there’s always something I’m missing.
But the intent was to protest what the entire country felt was blatant federal over-reach, in a manner that the federal government could not ignore.
People descended upon Ottawa from all directions, from the Maritimes to the Prairies.
They set up shop in Ottawa not to disrupt the lives of normal, everyday Canadians - although that inevitably did happen.
They set up shop so the politicians in power could not ignore them, and if nothing else, HAD to acknowledge that the general public was tired of not being listened to…
The system is supposed to work for the people, the people aren’t supposed to be slaves to the system.
Never in Canadian history have thousands of people descended upon the nation’s capital to demonstrate in no uncertain terms their extreme disapproval of how a PM was handling a situation.
Never in Canadian history has that event coincided with tens of thousands participating in their own ‘freedom convoy support drives’ around their own cities, or set up protests at the borders.
People keep saying that Trudeau has ‘divided Canadians’. I disagree.
Canadians have always been divided, it’s bound to happen when we have a country so geographically and culturally vast.
The political needs of people who live in the Maritimes will be different than people who live in the Prairies, and those will be different than those who lives in southern Ontario. (Don’t think I even have to mention the NWT, Nunavut, etc)
What Trudeau did is actually the opposite.
He united the country in a way that no other PM could possibly hope to mimic - he convinced Canadians from all over the country to unite & converge on Ottawa under a banner of protesting the disgusting & dangerous direction the PMO has consistently tried to steer us down.
Canadians tend to be a pretty apathetic bunch when it comes to their politics. To convince Canadians to get off their butts was impressive, but to convince them to drive across such a vast landmass & unite in one place for weeks … that isn’t what dividing Canadians looks like.
That’s what it looks like when an entire country see’s a bullshit narrative, see’s the puppet strings behind C-11 being introduced, hears phrases like ‘mandatory vaccinations’, see’s the PM’s true intentions behind his words, and collectively says “Oh I don’t think so, eh!”
In the end, I don’t think you have to worry too much about a bunch of pissed off Canadians converging into downtown Ottawa to honk their horns & tell their elected politicians to go pound sand.
I think you do have to worry about those same politicians when they introduce bills like C-11, or add a bunch of amendments at the last minute to C-21 in the hopes it’ll be passed without proper review.
A government that wants to censor what information you can access, and wants to disarm you simultaneously, is up to something that you should probably be protesting…
My 0.02
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Most of his opinions are even new (and he points this out himself); they are largely just reframed versions of the stoic philosophy from 2400 years ago.
I read his stuff to see what the controversy was and don't really get it
Colin Parkinson
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Asking people to clean their own rooms first is the first step in self-responsibility and begins the journey away from victimhood and without that, what control does the Progressive Left have on people?
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…neither slave to, nor abused by…
IKnowNothing
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Not all.
But the Bauder/MOU faction explicitly called for their installation on a ruling council (actually called a committee) with the senate and GG, and that said ruling council would unilaterally enforce their (MOU faction's) pseudo legal interpretations of everything regarding Covid measures across all levels of elected government -Federal, Provincial, Municipal.
They tried to force the senate/GG to enable them to dictate to all levels of elected government in the country, as well as the judiciary.
The result of a successfully enacted MOU would have been orders of magnitude more tyrannical than anything the Federal government did related to Covid.
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And the document was worth about as much as when I say that "I should be God"......
MilEME09
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Interesting read about the influences over the protests
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