Freedom Convoy protests [Split from All things 2019-nCoV]

[Edward Campbell]

With our revolving door justice system, taking matters into your own hands has become more attractive to resolve issues quicker.

The downtown Ottawa residence don’t seem like the confrontational types and likely sought a safe space.

The downtown Ottawa residents include four largeish groups (I'm using the condo in which I live - two blocks from one of the main protest "parking lots" - as an example for the first three groups - the fourth group lives across the street from us:

• Seniors who have downsized and live in the many, many downtown condos;
• Affluent students who live in the same buildings;
• Young civil servants, single and childless, dual-income couples, who also live in those downtown condos; and
• Newer Canadians and those who for a variety in reason live in rent-geared-to-income public housing.

There are others, of course, but the downtown core, where the protests occurred is fairly compact. Just a few blocks away, but safely removed from the "bother" of the "occupation," there are some quite affluent neighbourhoods filled with single family homes.

My little maps shows the main "occupied area." You could walk in almost any other area and hardly know there were protesters except for the noise.

Were those downtown Ottawa residents ever in any danger from violent protesters? Never, as far as I could see and I walked the area almost daily.

Were those downtown Ottawa residents inconvenienced? Yes, and that's putting it mildly.

Were those downtown Ottawa residents terrified? Yes. Some were, especially in the first few days. On the first Sunday of the "occupation" some of the truckers decide that the folks who attend Mass at St Patrick's basilica should not be allowed to hear the Mass - they sounded their horns steadily. A few parishioners - not surprisingly almost all seniors and recent immigrants - and a priest came out to ask for some consideration. They got "the finger" and louder horns. Ottawa Police stood by, seemingly helplessly.

Were the downtown Ottawa residents well served by the Ottawa Police and the mayor and city council? No. All were miserable failures.

Was their Emergency Act required? No! (Not, in my opinion, as a downtown resident.)

All that was ever needed was the political will to ask the premier for a declaration of a state of emergency - which was, eventually, done - and then to tell the police to get reinforcements and move the "occupiers" out of the city centre and close down their support base. Why that political will was lacking for so long is one of the questions I fear the commission will not answer.

 

[Quirky]

Please tell us how you personally would adapt to a dozen trucks idling outside your house randomly hitting their air horns at all hours for a week or two.

A can of great stuff into the engine intakes? Not like police were enforcing any laws anyway.

 

[Furniture]

Depending on how it’s done, to what extent, for how long, and their behaviours towards individual people and not just property- yes, that can be exactly true. If you cannot conceive of there being a spectrum between a lawful protest, and an unlawful assembly, that’s on you. I can assure you that there’s a major difference between a couple hundred people marching around blocking intersections for a few hours and then going home, and; a few thousand people with hundreds of vehicles occupying a downtown core, logjamming it with parked vehicles, and laying on truck horns 24/7, preventing thousands of local residents from being able to peacefully use, enjoy, or even sleep in their own property for weeks. Please tell us how you personally would adapt to a dozen trucks idling outside your house randomly hitting their air horns at all hours for a week or two. I suspect you would quickly stop thinking of it as an acceptable or lawful form of protest.

My bad for being the first and only person on Army.ca to use hyperbole to make a point.

The people who blockaded the downtown were the extreme of the group of Canadians tired of having varying level of government interrupt their lives. The people on Riverside Dr. were the extreme of the people tired of the blockade. Both groups consisted of the extreme elements of their particular causes.

Some posters on this site seemed upset at my use of the label "extreme", but have no issues labelling those who have different opinions.

 

[Kat Stevens]

My bad for being the first and only person on Army.ca to use hyperbole to make a point.

The people who blockaded the downtown were the extreme of the group of Canadians tired of having varying level of government interrupt their lives. The people on Riverside Dr. were the extreme of the people tired of the blockade. Both groups consisted of the extreme elements of their particular causse.

Some posters on this site seemed upset at my use of the label "extreme", but have no issues labelling those who have different opinions.

The word "moron" is quite popular here, too.

 

[brihard]

My bad for being the first and only person on Army.ca to use hyperbole to make a point.

The people who blockaded the downtown were the extreme of the group of Canadians tired of having varying level of government interrupt their lives. The people on Riverside Dr. were the extreme of the people tired of the blockade. Both groups consisted of the extreme elements of their particular causes.

Some posters on this site seemed upset at my use of the label "extreme", but have no issues labelling those who have different opinions.

Why ‘upset?’ I’m seeing some ‘I disagree and here’s why’, but nobody who’s correcting your choice of wording seems to be upset about it.

 

[QV]

The downtown Ottawa residents include four largeish groups (I'm using the condo in which I live - two blocks from one of the main protest "parking lots" - as an example for the first three groups - the fourth group lives across the street from us:

• Seniors who have downsized and live in the many, many downtown condos;
• Affluent students who live in the same buildings;
• Young civil servants, single and childless, dual-income couples, who also live in those downtown condos; and
• Newer Canadians and those who for a variety in reason live in rent-geared-to-income public housing.

There are others, of course, but the downtown core, where the protests occurred is fairly compact. Just a few blocks away, but safely removed from the "bother" of the "occupation," there are some quite affluent neighbourhoods filled with single family homes.

My little maps shows the main "occupied area." You could walk in almost any other area and hardly know there were protesters except for the noise.

Were those downtown Ottawa residents ever in any danger from violent protesters? Never, as far as I could see and I walked the area almost daily.

Were those downtown Ottawa residents inconvenienced? Yes, and that's putting it mildly.

Were those downtown Ottawa residents terrified? Yes. Some were, especially in the first few days. On the first Sunday of the "occupation" some of the truckers decide that the folks who attend Mass at St Patrick's basilica should not be allowed to hear the Mass - they sounded their horns steadily. A few parishioners - not surprisingly almost all seniors and recent immigrants - and a priest came out to ask for some consideration. They got "the finger" and louder horns. Ottawa Police stood by, seemingly helplessly.

Were the downtown Ottawa residents well served by the Ottawa Police and the mayor and city council? No. All were miserable failures.

Was their Emergency Act required? No! (Not, in my opinion, as a downtown resident.)

All that was ever needed was the political will to ask the premier for a declaration of a state of emergency - which was, eventually, done - and then to tell the police to get reinforcements and move the "occupiers" out of the city centre and close down their support base. Why that political will was lacking for so long is one of the questions I fear the commission will not answer.

Thank you for the first hand account of it all.

 

[childs56]

I actually was hoping would read that and realize i thought it was well handled and cooler heads prevailed.

I was caught in a riot in Toronto in the 1990s (Rodney King Protest) , CS gas was used, horse mounted police with long canes, rocks were tossed thru windows, stores looted, etc. Still no one was killed or badly hurt ( police horse was hit in the eye, now they have plastic armour protecting the horses) Subway train smelled really bad as people left the down town core because we all smelled of CS gas. Canadian protests have been peaceful and mostly ended peaceful. You look how other countries handle a protest, we do it totally different and I hope it continues to be handled in a more peaceful way.


Now the protest out West was different because large equipment was used to run around the police lines, weapons were seized according to reports, but still no one was killed. The world could take lessons on how we do it.

The weapons at Couts border crossing were not actually seized at the protest but at a trailer on private property close to town. The people with them are a interesting group who were not supported for their views by those at the protest.

That would have sucked to be caught in the riot.

 

[childs56]

There is a difference between 'minimal use of force' and what the OPS was doing.

Doing SFA and hoping it turns out for the best wasn't achieving any objective. Just enforcing existing bylaws would have been a start, and would have shut down the noise issue from honking right away.

For context, the same OPS issued a ticket to a local company a few years ago for exceeding the noise bylaw because they kept the stereo going on their float in a parking lot immediately following the Christmas parade (so around 2030ish at night, in an area about 300m or more from the closest house). They could have made a mint wandering around ticketing people.

Due to the dealings at the BLM protests earlier the Ottawa Police changed they way they escalate their use of force. The findings said that they instigated the violence and said as long as criminal matters were not happening to let the protest die out on its own. I am sure that is why the Police did not engage directly with the protests. Now everyone in their dog has their own opinion as to how the Police should have quelled the racists, extreme terrorists. Simple fact is the protest overall was peaceful.

 

[Remius]

On the civil suit front…

https://twitter.com/x/status/1600546195696500736

 

[mariomike]

Learned a new word today.

impecuniosity

 

[brihard]

Due to the dealings at the BLM protests earlier the Ottawa Police changed they way they escalate their use of force. The findings said that they instigated the violence and said as long as criminal matters were not happening to let the protest die out on its own. I am sure that is why the Police did not engage directly with the protests. Now everyone in their dog has their own opinion as to how the Police should have quelled the racists, extreme terrorists. Simple fact is the protest overall was peaceful.

What escalation at the Ottawa BLM protests? I’m really unclear what it is you contend Ottawa started doing differently.

The biggest BLM protest in Ottawa (the one Trudeau actually briefly marched in up on Parliament Hill) was a little loud, but entirely peacefully save for a couple water bottles thrown at police by some idiot. That’s out of a crowd of thousands. There was definitely no escalation by police at that event.

So I’m really confused about what exactly you’re talking about.

 

[lenaitch]

Learned a new word today.

impecuniosity

You need to read more Rex Murphy or Conrad Black articles.

 

[childs56]

What escalation at the Ottawa BLM protests? I’m really unclear what it is you contend Ottawa started doing differently.

The biggest BLM protest in Ottawa (the one Trudeau actually briefly marched in up on Parliament Hill) was a little loud, but entirely peacefully save for a couple water bottles thrown at police by some idiot. That’s out of a crowd of thousands. There was definitely no escalation by police at that event.

So I’m really confused about what exactly you’re talking about.

The one where they moved in and arrested the Protesters at night, causing some hurt feelings and which resulted in meetings cancelled the next morning between the Police Board and the BLM protest leaders. A review of their arrests along with other protests in Ontario UOF was reviewed and came to conclusion that Police were to change their tactics and not escalate their tactics and to avoid confrontations if possible during peaceful protests.

 

[Weinie]

There were a number of cases of exactly this- minor and necessary police/law enforcement actions that immediately attracted a number of angry occupiers. It became clear quickly that any active enforcement measures would necessitate being ready to handle a sudden and upset crowd. Some of the occupiers were actively communicating such police actions broadly, and asking for ‘backup’ from more of their crowd.

That's an interesting segue in your description of the protesters.

occupiers meaning - Google Search

 

[brihard]

That's an interesting segue in your description of the protesters.

occupiers meaning - Google Search

Yes, I’ve used the term for some time, including in this thread. They basically occupied downtown and prevented its lawful use and enjoyment, really no different conceptually from the movement that literally used the ‘occupy’ moniker some years back. They also succesfully prevented effective law enforcement for a couple weeks. The difference is the convoy crowd were far more successful in jamming everything up.

The one where they moved in and arrested the Protesters at night, causing some hurt feelings and which resulted in meetings cancelled the next morning between the Police Board and the BLM protest leaders. A review of their arrests along with other protests in Ontario UOF was reviewed and came to conclusion that Police were to change their tactics and not escalate their tactics and to avoid confrontations if possible during peaceful protests.

Ah yes. The small crew who locked down Nicholas and Laurier for a few hours. They got cleared out, and nobody was hurt save for some feelings. That had nothing to do with the convoy response, or initial lack thereof. The convoy were committing criminal offences en masse from day one when they blocked numerous roads and prevented the use and enjoyment of downtown roads and properties. While enforcement took a few weeks, it was criminal right from the start, and that’s what a bunch of people were ultimately arrested and charged for.

 

[Weinie]

Yes, I’ve used the term for some time, including in this thread. They basically occupied downtown and prevented its lawful use and enjoyment, really no different conceptually from the movement that literally used the ‘occupy’ moniker some years back. They also succesfully prevented effective law enforcement for a couple weeks. The difference is the convoy crowd were far more successful in jamming everything up.



Ah yes. The small crew who locked down Nicholas and Laurier for a few hours. They got cleared out, and nobody was hurt save for some feelings. That had nothing to do with the convoy response, or initial lack thereof. The convoy were committing criminal offences en masse from day one when they blocked numerous roads and prevented the use and enjoyment of downtown roads and properties. While enforcement took a few weeks, it was criminal right from the start, and that’s what a bunch of people were ultimately arrested and charged for.

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.

You've yet to move into the racists and misogynists trope.

 

[brihard]

You've yet to move into the racists and misogynists trope.

Correct. Why would I?

 

[Weinie]

Correct. Why would I?

Perhaps your righteous indignation towards the issue is based on a personal bias. I have no other conclusion to come to. But, I lived in Ottawa during the Trucker Convoy. I support the rights of "protesters" (not so-called occupiers) to protest anything they want in Canada, even though I strongly disagree with many of their crusades.

That is democracy, not freezing bank accounts and enacting a totally over the top EA.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Perhaps your righteous indignation towards the issue is based on a personal bias. I have no other conclusion to come to. But, I lived in Ottawa during the Trucker Convoy. I support the rights of "protesters" (not so-called occupiers) to protest anything they want in Canada, even though I strongly disagree with many of their crusades.

That is democracy, not freezing bank accounts and enacting a totally over the top EA.

Personal biases aside....

Given the blatant inability of the police to adequately guarantee the rights and freedoms of everyone in a safe and sensible manner, we may want to recognize that they might just be 'out of their depth' in their current construct, given the increasing levels of protester organization and militancy in Canada, and conduct a 'root and branch' revision of police services to reflect that new higher risk, and multi-faceted, security requirement.

I'm no Trudeau fan, but when the PM says the police plan was 'no plan at all' that's a huge failing that needs to be addressed with various levels of house cleaning, reorganizing and training because this particular type of 'public disorder Genie' isn't going back in the bottle anytime soon.

 

[QV]

Personal biases aside....

Given the blatant inability of the police to adequately guarantee the rights and freedoms of everyone in a safe and sensible manner, we may want to recognize that they might just be 'out of their depth' in their current construct, given the increasing levels of protester organization and militancy in Canada, and conduct a 'root and branch' revision of police services to reflect that new higher risk, and multi-faceted, security requirement.

I'm no Trudeau fan, but when the PM says the police plan was 'no plan at all' that's a huge failing that needs to be addressed with various levels of house cleaning, reorganizing and training because this particular type of 'public disorder Genie' isn't going back in the bottle anytime soon.

You assertion would be accurate if the characterization of the convoy by select PMO/minister level of government was true, but it wasn't.