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Regardless of whether or not he has PTSD that doesn't stop him from knowing right from wrong.
Former Soldier Acquitted of Sex Assault on Teen
- Thread starter Scoobie Newbie
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Exactly...and if this defence is to be accepted logically then he should be locked up somewhere secure where his erratic behaviour due to his "condition" can be monitored, treated and he can be kept from hurting the rest of us ever again.
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+1 Padre
It's like when people are found not guilty by reason of insanity. What about being found guilty by reason of insanity? Then there would be justification to put them in an institution (not prison) where they can be monitored/treated.
I wonder if this guy's psych exam included the question Is he a danger to himself or others?
It's like when people are found not guilty by reason of insanity. What about being found guilty by reason of insanity? Then there would be justification to put them in an institution (not prison) where they can be monitored/treated.
I wonder if this guy's psych exam included the question Is he a danger to himself or others?
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PMedMoe,
To be truthful, there are times when being found not guilty by reason of insanity is better for the public because, then the person can be put in an institution until it can be proven that he/she is 'all better' now.
But, just like corrections, a lot of things come down to money...........................
To be truthful, there are times when being found not guilty by reason of insanity is better for the public because, then the person can be put in an institution until it can be proven that he/she is 'all better' now.
But, just like corrections, a lot of things come down to money...........................
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insanity is a defence that is rarely used and rarely successful. When it is used successfully the person often has a very hard time getting back out on the street. The whole use of the defence is overblown I think.
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Actually its used all the time.......................I was drunk, PTSD, drugs, rage, all kinds of reasons. The secret is to make it a temporary thing, otherwise the above poster would be correct. Then it would be like what was said and it would make it a lot harder to get back out.
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From what I understand, the defense of insanity, or moreso any defense comes down to intent. In Canadian law there are 2 types of intent, General Intent and Specific intent. Some charges only require general intent, and some require both. For example it is precedent in Canadian law that when drunk one can form general intent, but not specific intent and is often the reason murder charges are reduced to manslaughter; as in Canadian Law murder requires "specific intent." This is all a legal notion and has no roots in pyschology or pyschiatry or any other kind of "try." To be convicted the Crown will have to prove that the accused could form specific intent at the time of the event, and as well knew his right from wrong.
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Ex-soldier in PTSD sexual assault case back in custody for breaching bail conditions including those requiring him to abstain from alcohol and not contact the victim or her family.
Article Link
Article Link
Family welcomes soldier's new trial
By: Mike McIntyre Updated: April 4 at 06:04 AM CDT
Article Link
A Manitoba family is praising for the country's highest court for refusing to hear an appeal from a former soldier who claims post-traumatic stress disorder drove him to commit a horrifying crime.
Roger Borsch wanted the Supreme Court of Canada to find him not criminally responsible for his actions based on mental illness.
His bid was rejected Thursday. No reasons were given.
The decision means Borsch will now face a second trial on charges including sexual assault with a weapon and break-and-enter.
Borsch, 35, doesn't dispute the fact he broke into a northern Manitoba home and attacked a 13-year-old girl at knifepoint in 2004.
But he was found not guilty at his original trial in 2006 after Queen's Bench Justice Nathan Nurgtiz agreed with Borsch's claims that his mind had been affected by horrific killings he said he witnessed a decade earlier in Bosnia.
The Crown appealed and the Manitoba Court of Appeal overturned Nurgitz's decision last year on the grounds he failed to make specific findings of fact regarding Borsch's alleged war horrors were which being challenged by the Crown.
Without those findings, Nurgitz shouldn't have accepted expert psychiatric and psychological evidence which supported Borsch's claim of PTSD.
No new trial date has been set.
More on link
By: Mike McIntyre Updated: April 4 at 06:04 AM CDT
Article Link
A Manitoba family is praising for the country's highest court for refusing to hear an appeal from a former soldier who claims post-traumatic stress disorder drove him to commit a horrifying crime.
Roger Borsch wanted the Supreme Court of Canada to find him not criminally responsible for his actions based on mental illness.
His bid was rejected Thursday. No reasons were given.
The decision means Borsch will now face a second trial on charges including sexual assault with a weapon and break-and-enter.
Borsch, 35, doesn't dispute the fact he broke into a northern Manitoba home and attacked a 13-year-old girl at knifepoint in 2004.
But he was found not guilty at his original trial in 2006 after Queen's Bench Justice Nathan Nurgtiz agreed with Borsch's claims that his mind had been affected by horrific killings he said he witnessed a decade earlier in Bosnia.
The Crown appealed and the Manitoba Court of Appeal overturned Nurgitz's decision last year on the grounds he failed to make specific findings of fact regarding Borsch's alleged war horrors were which being challenged by the Crown.
Without those findings, Nurgitz shouldn't have accepted expert psychiatric and psychological evidence which supported Borsch's claim of PTSD.
No new trial date has been set.
More on link
OldSolduer
Army.ca Relic
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His defence is not sound. There is no excuse for raping a 13 year old.
He stated that he shot and killed a man for raping a girl in Bosnia. As I understand it (Croatia 93 and Bosnia 97) we were issued a specific number of rounds per man and each had to be accounted for at end tour, if I remember correctly. So when he turned his ammunition in, did he turn in the amount he was issued?
I think his peers and his OC should be called to testify for the Crown. They would have some very pertinent information.
He stated that he shot and killed a man for raping a girl in Bosnia. As I understand it (Croatia 93 and Bosnia 97) we were issued a specific number of rounds per man and each had to be accounted for at end tour, if I remember correctly. So when he turned his ammunition in, did he turn in the amount he was issued?
I think his peers and his OC should be called to testify for the Crown. They would have some very pertinent information.
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In certain cases, but even then there should be a SIR on file which would be capable of verifying "witness to horrible incidents" should buddy later develop PTSD. But, with ALL the forward movement on PTSD made by the CF/VAC in recent years -- and the NECESSITY of deployed soldiers to attend PTSD awareness briefings -- there's not one who could claim to be "simply undiagnosed until now because I didn't know where to go for help". That's a bogus line in this day and age.GUNS said:
I guess my litmus test would be:
Was buddy diagnosed with PTSD before any crime occured?
OR
Is buddy now claiming PTSD after being "caught" in a criminal act. If so, there should be a record of any SIs that he was involved in -- they are reported of the post-deployment medicals these days.
OldSolduer you are correct they did keep a count of the ammo issued, One of his peers was at the first trial but the judge would not allow him to testify. If he is allowed to testify at the next trial with any other of his peers who come forward the outcome will be very different I think.
Borsch Pleads Guilty
CJOB's Jeff Keele reporting 9/12/2008
Article Link
A former Manitoba soldier who claimed he sexually assaulted a teen girl and didn't remember because of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder has decided not to go to trial again.
Roger Borsch has pleaded guilty for breaking into the girl's home in The Pas and attacking her. As part of a plea bargain the former soldier has accepted a three-year prison sentence minus a year for time already served in custody.
Borsch was found not criminally responsible at trial but that verdict was overturned by the Manitoba Court of Appeal and a new trial was ordered.
Borsch claimed he had Post Traumatic Stress Disorder because of atrocities he witnessed while on a tour of Bosnia in the early 90's.
More on link
Soldier jailed 3 years for sexual assault
By: Mike McIntyre Updated: September 12 at 12:20 PM CDT
Article Link
A former Canadian soldier has done a dramatic legal flip-flop and pleaded guilty to breaking into a neighbour's home and sexually assaulting a 13-year-old girl at knifepoint.
Roger Borsch, 36, was given three years in prison this morning under a joint-recommendation between Crown and defence lawyers. He was given double-time credit for six months already served, plus an additional two years behind bars.
Borsch had previously gone to trial and made national headlines when he was found not criminally responsible after becoming the first soldier successfully use post-traumatic stress disorder as a defence for his crimes.
He didn't dispute the facts of the case but was found not guilty of the 2004 attack for reasons of a mental disorder.
Queen's Bench Justice Nathan Nurgitz agreed with Borsch's claims that his mind had been affected by horrific killings he said he witnessed a decade earlier in Bosnia.
The Crown appealed, and Manitoba's highest court agreed last year to overturn the verdict and order a new trial. Borsch then tried to appeal to the Supreme Court of Canada but was rejected.
Borsch told court at trial he was haunted by the horrors of what he witnessed during a 1994 peacekeeping mission when he attacked the girl a decade later.
He claims to have personally killed five people, including a Serbian soldier he caught raping an eight-year-old girl. Doctors who testified in his defence claimed Borsch may have been "acting out" what he'd witnessed.
The Crown argued at trial that Borsch has given different versions of his story to psychiatrists over the years. And he said the military has no written records of the events, which Borsch has said also include the death of a young Bosnian girl who came upon a landmine at a military checkpoint.
Nurgitz's decision to clear him of criminal wrongdoing sparked debate and reaction across the country, including several former soldiers who questioned Borsch's war stories.
Borsch was spared jail in exchange for a trip to a mental health facility, where he spent a few months getting treatment until his release in December 2006 when a provincial review board determined he didn't pose a risk to the public. He had been free in the community ever since.
The Crown had planned to call several of those soldiers had the case gone to trial again. Defence lawyer Greg Brodsky said today his client now admits some of the incidents he recounted may simply be a product of the PTSD he was suffering and didn't actually occur.
At the time of the assault, Borsch was working as a jail guard in The Pas.
Borsch claimed to be in a catatonic-like state when he broke into the a co-worker's home in the middle of the night, taped her teen daughter's mouth shut and then attacked her at knifepoint. The girl eventually managed to free herself and scream for help.
Borsch testified he only remembered waking up hours later in a canoe with no paddles on the Saskatchewan River.
More on link
CJOB's Jeff Keele reporting 9/12/2008
Article Link
A former Manitoba soldier who claimed he sexually assaulted a teen girl and didn't remember because of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder has decided not to go to trial again.
Roger Borsch has pleaded guilty for breaking into the girl's home in The Pas and attacking her. As part of a plea bargain the former soldier has accepted a three-year prison sentence minus a year for time already served in custody.
Borsch was found not criminally responsible at trial but that verdict was overturned by the Manitoba Court of Appeal and a new trial was ordered.
Borsch claimed he had Post Traumatic Stress Disorder because of atrocities he witnessed while on a tour of Bosnia in the early 90's.
More on link
Soldier jailed 3 years for sexual assault
By: Mike McIntyre Updated: September 12 at 12:20 PM CDT
Article Link
A former Canadian soldier has done a dramatic legal flip-flop and pleaded guilty to breaking into a neighbour's home and sexually assaulting a 13-year-old girl at knifepoint.
Roger Borsch, 36, was given three years in prison this morning under a joint-recommendation between Crown and defence lawyers. He was given double-time credit for six months already served, plus an additional two years behind bars.
Borsch had previously gone to trial and made national headlines when he was found not criminally responsible after becoming the first soldier successfully use post-traumatic stress disorder as a defence for his crimes.
He didn't dispute the facts of the case but was found not guilty of the 2004 attack for reasons of a mental disorder.
Queen's Bench Justice Nathan Nurgitz agreed with Borsch's claims that his mind had been affected by horrific killings he said he witnessed a decade earlier in Bosnia.
The Crown appealed, and Manitoba's highest court agreed last year to overturn the verdict and order a new trial. Borsch then tried to appeal to the Supreme Court of Canada but was rejected.
Borsch told court at trial he was haunted by the horrors of what he witnessed during a 1994 peacekeeping mission when he attacked the girl a decade later.
He claims to have personally killed five people, including a Serbian soldier he caught raping an eight-year-old girl. Doctors who testified in his defence claimed Borsch may have been "acting out" what he'd witnessed.
The Crown argued at trial that Borsch has given different versions of his story to psychiatrists over the years. And he said the military has no written records of the events, which Borsch has said also include the death of a young Bosnian girl who came upon a landmine at a military checkpoint.
Nurgitz's decision to clear him of criminal wrongdoing sparked debate and reaction across the country, including several former soldiers who questioned Borsch's war stories.
Borsch was spared jail in exchange for a trip to a mental health facility, where he spent a few months getting treatment until his release in December 2006 when a provincial review board determined he didn't pose a risk to the public. He had been free in the community ever since.
The Crown had planned to call several of those soldiers had the case gone to trial again. Defence lawyer Greg Brodsky said today his client now admits some of the incidents he recounted may simply be a product of the PTSD he was suffering and didn't actually occur.
At the time of the assault, Borsch was working as a jail guard in The Pas.
Borsch claimed to be in a catatonic-like state when he broke into the a co-worker's home in the middle of the night, taped her teen daughter's mouth shut and then attacked her at knifepoint. The girl eventually managed to free herself and scream for help.
Borsch testified he only remembered waking up hours later in a canoe with no paddles on the Saskatchewan River.
More on link
OldSolduer
Army.ca Relic
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It wasn't him having a sudden attack of the guilts that prompted his plea.
His a$$ was going to be fried hard by the system. He was looking at a lot more time than he got.
His a$$ was going to be fried hard by the system. He was looking at a lot more time than he got.
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