Forces struggling to recruit...

[luck881]

I'm surprised that in the midst of arguing over security clearances, noone has commented on this hidden gem...

"Another problem is that cultural minorities tend to have misconceptions about the nature of Canada's military, which is less a fighting army than one designed for peacekeeping, disaster response, reconstruction, humanitarian missions and border patrol."

 

[3rd Horseman]

Generl Belzile is wrong on this one. Minorities will never be recruited in the numbers they want, minorities are fleeing countries due to armies, they will never join the system their parents don't want them to. The CF has to stop attempting to recruit specific people and just recruit people who want to join....the end result would be lots of white english speaking males....ah back to the old days.

 And I think the posts above are correct I saw figures that suggest the recruits were 108% above of required this year.

 

[Sub_Guy]

Perhaps if you are going live in a country then you should educate yourself on that country, it they have no idea what our country is about then I wouldn't want them in my military. 

 

[3rd Horseman]

Sub-Guy.....I would not want them in my country let alone the militray. Maybe we should be sorting out the recruiting at the immigration department first.

 

[tamouh]

3rd Horseman : I agree. Nevertheless, I think having the minorities in the army is an important step to reflect on the country itself. Canada is a multi-cultural society and by having those different societies work together we achieve more of our goals as a strong and united nation. This will also go for whether to require French language in the army or not.

Minorities are also great assets in war zones. Communications, training, history and culture interaction is vital for the success of modern armies. I agree that numbers are impossible to reach their targets, however, minorities should be encouraged to participate within the rules of the Canadian Armed Forces.

 

[Sub_Guy]

Statscan reports that 1 in 8 (2001  13.4% of the population) is a visible minority, so with a force of 60,000 to represent the population of Canada the military would need 8040 visible minorities.  So we are a little off target, I figured there were more than 2500 minorities in the military as I have seen quite a few soldiers/sailors/zoomies who are visible minorities.. <--- I don't like grouping people into groups because I never think about race until I read these news articles telling me that I should be thinking about it.

 

[FastEddy]

Yes, if I could I would stop paying rations and quarters, and move out to my own place, besides I could probably make myself better and healthier food then whats at the mess. Personally, I know that some people love being in the military, but its not the life for myself, I regret not doing post secondary instead. If a person thinks they would enjoy the military life go into the reserves, don't go fulltime or else they might have deep regrets if they find out its not the life for them. As well while your in the training process you can't do any volunteer work, if I could I would apply to do volunteer work with a police service or even work part time if I could. My reccomendation to anybody joining up is to do it part time before going fulltime.

Futuretrooper, please note that this inquiry is only to target possible flaws in the CF's Recruitment System and Methods.

Some will say, how can you attach any credence to this dis-grunted persons comments. Well I say, WHY is this person so dis-grunted ?.

So I would like to know why and what attracted you to Military Life. What you thought it would be like and what it didn't. What was the over powering thing that drew you to the CF's.

Cheers.

 

[tingbudong]

I'll admit I'm not prepared to join the regular force, largely because my personal and career goals are not compatible with a full-time military service.  However, joining a reserve unit is something I've been strongly considering over the past several months, largely becauase of my admiration of the CF, especially what they are doing in Afghanistan and also because of my life long interest in the military.  Unfortunately, the area of Canada I'm planning to return to (after being overseas for 3 years) to begin graduate studies does not currently have a reserve unit. 

I'm willing to join, but I geographically don't have the opportunity.

 

[Nemo888]

Security clearances are not optional. If your checkered past keeps you out tough luck. Anyone want to tell horror stories about dishonourable soldiers? It doesn't take longer than 6 months if you are a straight arrow. (and haven't been out of country or are the son of a mobster)

 

[LIKELY]

I think the main problems are retention and redtape.
For retention its easy...signing bonus for each new engagement...and a nice one for your IE.

Recruiting...I don't think its the CFRC thats holding things up, they are just the delivery mechanism...the most delay seems to me in the medical departments. Medicals...letters to and from Borden...Letters back...wait for another doctor to see you (hard to get appointments)...letters bac to Det....they send it to Borden...then God forbid they need more info....it starts again.  When I joined in the80's, The forces had a doctor that they paid per medical...you passed/ yer in.  Way too much red tape now.

Security checks are very nescesary...more now than ever.

 

[Bograt]

Silly question, but what do you believe is an acceptable waiting period for trades like Infantry, or Pilot. A week, a month, several months? Considering the steps required (Application, LoR, CFAT, Interviews, ERC, Physical, Medical, Boards, Offers, Basic) and the number that recruiting is processing (20K a year?) where do you think the time can be made up? From what I have seen with my time in a small but very busy Det, the turn around is reasonable.

The challege of course is this is a volunteer military in a Country where the economy is pretty strong. The issue is not how many people we are getting in the door, but rather how many people are leaving.

 

[FastEddy]

Security clearances are not optional. If your checkered past keeps you out tough luck. Anyone want to tell horror stories about dishonourable soldiers? It doesn't take longer than 6 months if you are a straight arrow. (and haven't been out of country or are the son of a mobster)

So what do you consider a Checker Board Past, and why should your attendance for the last 4 years at Oxford (U.K) or Harvard (U.S) be a detriment in your processing.

Maybe a youth with a colored past but wants to turn his life around (the Services would be just the place) should be exclued from the roster.

It appears you favour "Guilt by Association", I know many a fine Police Officer who has come from a Family , that some might think less than desirable, through no fault of theirs. Then why don't we take it a step further, lets disqualify any one who knows someone who has used a illegal substance and not reported them to the authorities.

Also, if your so vocal about CF's recruitment standards, you can do us the courtesy of where its coming from and fill in you profile.

 

[Rory]

Back in the 80's doing the medical then your in thing didn't work. It lets in too many problem soldiers. At least with the whole recruiting system now, at least when I went in March, it is more in-depth. The interview was a good highlight as it helps them understand what you want from the forces and a partial picture of your mentality.

Just up for some speculation if we had the system we have now in the 80's we might (speculation) still have an Airborne Regiment.

 

[3rd Horseman]

Rory,
  I think your comment on the AB fails the logic test, The AB was going the way of the DoDo bird anyway. The isolated problem in Somolia was just good timing to put an end to it.

 

[aluc]

Training, lack of instructors, outdated equipment.......wishy washy feel good recruitment ads. Well, if you want potential recruits to even notice the CAF, the MND has got to beef up the TV ads. You 're not going to attract the attention of the younger guys with images of humanitarian aid ops. IMO they want to see steal and fire, APCs , rappelling out of Griffins etc, boots on the ground sort of thing, honour and glory for you and your country. They want to be made to feel they are becoming part of something bigger, something that should be clearly defined in the ads. Simply highlighting the fact that the CAF pays for school, and "you can make a difference", blah, blah ,blah isn't "ballsy" enough for the young males.(ie: USMC ads) You have to target the younger males, no offense intended , but I think they are the bread and butter of the Forces, and will always be so. And it's not because the young guys are better suited for CAF lifestyle than others, it's simply because they are more inclined to join and live a military lifestyle. We have to go after what we know we can recruit also, not just focus on  minorities.

 

[Bograt]

Disagree.

There are a variety of skill sets that the CF is trying to acquire, including doctors, computer scientists, aerospace engineers, aircraft maintainers, nurses, logistics personnel etc. These are the types of trades we are lacking. We consistently meet recruitment goals for infantry and other trades that are interesting to "younger males".

One of the misconceptions the public has concerning the CF is that all jobs are traditional "crunchie" jobs (no disrespect implied). While we all are soldiers, not all of us are infanteers, of artillerymen.

 

[aluc]

Good point. I was thinking on a strictly combat arms perspective. However, from reading other posts in different forums on this topic of recruitment, I'm not alone in thinking we need more commercials and more awareness. Maybe various separate ads in regards to the various trades and employment opportunities available from the CF, not just one or two ads encompassing the whole CF.  Also, I know this may be knit picking , but a lot of the regimental websites I looked at when I was joining weren't kept up that well. Outdated pictures and info, etc. they look a little shabby, IMO.

 

[LIKELY]

I think we are meeting our recruiting numbers....what has to be done is find a way to expedite the enrollment process and keep the young'uns interested once they come in the door of CFRCs.
Then we have to train them up and find a way to keep them. I got pissed off in the mid 90's and left...albeit they were extremely bad times for the CF...there didn't look to be much future in it...now I am getting back in, hindsight being 20/20.

and am part of the recruiting malestrom...watch and shoot.

 

[Enzo]

Medical issues  : You can waste a lot of time sorting out that nonsense these days.

Whatever happened to that 21st century, no paper, fast communications thing? I know, signatures on everything, got it.  ;D

 

[mdh]

There are a variety of skill sets that the CF is trying to acquire, including doctors, computer scientists, aerospace engineers, aircraft maintainers, nurses, logistics personnel etc. These are the types of trades we are lacking.

Exactly,

It's the technical and skilled trades that are in short supply; somehow we need to make a convincing pitch to young graduates in these areas that the CF offers an exciting career alternative.  There is no question that the Forces will face a war for talent as the demographic decline hits home.

Most of the individual skill sets noted by Bograt above can be easily absorbed by the private sector which usually offers more money, a more stable family life and, not to be underestimated, the chance for the spouse to work at his or her chosen career (a tougher call in many of our rather isolated bases.)

It's also worthy to note that most ambitious kids who come from minority groups will tend to gravitate toward skilled trades and the professions. The question is can the CF realistically compete for this talent?

cheers, mdh