Force Protection failure in Greece: RCN ship vandalized

https://twitter.com/x/status/1505298830379601926

NST had provided security the last time an HMC ship was in that port. Apparently no measures in place this time around.

Facebook comment from a former NST NCO:

''Lots of silly comments from people who think they know all about Force Protection. First, when we stood up NST in the exact same port we had two check points and a guarded gate with spike strips and Greek police manning those gates. Second, you would never open fire on people especially if the threat triangle isn't complete. Not sure how they got so close to the ship with the normal security measures in place, but it happened and it was only paint. However, this is exactly why you secure the jetty prior to a ship coming alongside using CAF and local authorities. De-escalate as best as possible and then use non-lethal force such as your fire hoses rigged on the upper decks.......trust me, they will stop someone

.....ask ST....lol.''

Some context from a more friendly Greek:

''Alright... As a Greek-Canadian (served both in the Greek and Canadian army) I would like to apologize. Those guys are fuckin morons and stupid as fuck!
In 1932 Russia would give huge amounts of money(in other words fund) KKE(those fucking cunts who thru the paint), So one day they would "rule" Greece. The Greek army didn't let that happen and thru a lot of them in the jail.. So since then they can't stand the sight of any military uniform. Whenever they see anything that has to do with military they throw paint cans.
Sorry for my bad English!''

 

[dapaterson]

So I assume the BoI for Protecteur is available for every sailor to review and learn from?

 

[dimsum]

So I assume the BoI for Protecteur is available for every sailor to review and learn from?

 

[Rd651]

Great point!! That BOI was VERY hard to see and I was a Snr FFtr collecting many hats on different CPFs at the time!!

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

So I assume the BoI for Protecteur is available for every sailor to review and learn from?

Some of the lessons learned I was taught as a consequence have already been struck from the curriculum.....

 

[Rd651]

Some of the lessons learned I was taught as a consequence have already been struck from the curriculum.....

Sad and that BOI was VERY telling to say the least!

 

[Navy_Pete]

Counterpoint to some of the comments here:

For warfare and damage control that's the case right now. Everything is recorded (voice, video, sensor data) and analyzed and briefed back. There is an initial assessment done by the "range staff" for a missile shoot or DC issue and then all the data is analyzed.

I was in an amazing AAR for a missile shoot, the Combat Sytems Team was there as was the whole OPS Room, CO.

They ran back a reconstruction of the shoot, from both the enemy and friendly sides and picked out where performance could be improved. Where certain decisions were made they asked why those decisions were made, and in one case it lead to a direct change in training for the ARRO ( Jr position). The Jr told them why they did what they did and were listened to with no blame. Their training for how to use a certain sensor wasn't as clear as it should have been, so I saw the training chief leave with notes to fix that.

And as the warfare centre does the training for the OPS team you can believe it went right back into their program.

Counter-counter point; find an unclass version of the PRO BOI (hint, doesn't officially exist). Or the PRE allsion BOI, or any of the major fire/flood events. They are all confidential and buried.

We learn our real life DC LL from the USN, RAN, RN, Norway etc. If you want to know what happened on the USS Cole, or any other major incident it's all posted online and unclass. Even the Bonhomme Richard fire report was put out as soon as they were allowed, and only got delayed because of the charges.

The recent FRE fire report should at least be unclass though, but is written from the fire marshall perspective, not the RCN. That one is delayed because the people involved are triple hatted, but at least the draft was kicked out to the fleet within a week.

The RCN is appallingly bad at actually keeping track of these things and distributing lessons learned from real incidents. The really shitty part is that people's careers were killed by PRO and other incidents, but was done in a backdoor way, so they didn't even get any kind of fair representation.

 

[dimsum]

Counter-counter point; find an unclass version of the PRO BOI (hint, doesn't officially exist). Or the PRE allsion BOI, or any of the major fire/flood events. They are all confidential and buried.

We learn our real life DC LL from the USN, RAN, RN, Norway etc. If you want to know what happened on the USS Cole, or any other major incident it's all posted online and unclass. Even the Bonhomme Richard fire report was put out as soon as they were allowed, and only got delayed because of the charges.

The recent FRE fire report should at least be unclass though, but is written from the fire marshall perspective, not the RCN. That one is delayed because the people involved are triple hatted, but at least the draft was kicked out to the fleet within a week.

The RCN is appallingly bad at actually keeping track of these things and distributing lessons learned from real incidents. The really shitty part is that people's careers were killed by PRO and other incidents, but was done in a backdoor way, so they didn't even get any kind of fair representation.

Those things should be Flight Safety reports - completely UNCLAS and online.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Those things should be Flight Safety reports - completely UNCLAS and online.

I don't disagree, and really like the flight safety report culture that I saw with the air det. Once in a while people should still get held accountable, but I'm sure there is a happy middle ground where we can have unclass versions of BOIs and other reports, and still hold people accountable when required.

The USN does a great job of that, and the Westralia report is another great example. You can identify people by position so the context makes sense, but it's pretty easy to drop names etc for an unclass version, and just have a withheld annex with a 'decoder key' that is PRO B for the full report.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Those things should be Flight Safety reports - completely UNCLAS and online.

Hence my point about adopting a culture of safety

 

[Rd651]

Those things should be Flight Safety reports - completely UNCLAS and online.

Yes agreed it should've been released least to the fleet to actually use /train 'LL and reconmendations, very telling and many fails occurred, I've read the report, but only after many, asks to someone in the know at the time that allowed me to see it, on a computer screen, only because of my position as a Snr FFtr (privilege) at the time....no copies, private viewing, etc. Very Controlled

 

[Dana381]

Great point!! That BOI was VERY hard to see and I was a Snr FFtr collecting many hats on different CPFs at the time!!

As a civillian that is shocking, how can you learn from mistakes if you don't know what they are. Whoever suppresses information that can save lives will someday be guilty of murder!

“Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” Winston Churchill.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

As a civillian that is shocking, how can you learn from mistakes if you don't know what they are. Whoever suppresses information that can save lives will someday be guilty of murder!

“Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” Winston Churchill.

Complain to your elected officials. Ships are political, military procurement is political.

Now retired Admirals have been charged for not following the orders of said elected officials in relation to the Ship file.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mark-norman-case-explainer-1.5127752

I don't know what said report stated. Maybe it stated Ship X was a stinking pile of poop and should have been replaced decades ago?

We will never know