Fitness for Operational Requirements of CAF Employment ( FORCE )

[Eye In The Sky]

Just so people's head's don't explode, the minimum standard for continued employment in the CF hasn't changed, but the physical abilities of many of the recruits has.  And not for the better...

What?  I don't recall anyone misreading this thread thinking it applied to the CF.  ???

To stay on course following the first fitness test, the minimums for push-ups is 2 and 4 for women and men respectively.  That is so there is an indication of "some" baseline upper body strength to work with during the course so that it is feasible that the MPFS scores of 9 and 19 are acheivable at either week 6 and/or week 13.  This is an additional standard imposed over and above the requirement to pass the VO2 Max and a min of two of three strength tests just to stay on course.  Anyone not meeting that standard (or without a damn good story presented by their platoon staff) is headed for RFT.

2 pushups for females and 4 pushups for males is hardly an *additional standard*.  God our allies must be laughing their a**es off at this pathetic fitness level we allow and accomodate.  Atleast that was added though, as embarassing as it is.

The EXPRES test if not the only fitness test used in the CF, by the way.

 

[Quartermaster]

On your first point, the line was rhetorical, I thought that was clear, my bad.

Secondly, I can't argue the 2 and 4 is not much of a standard, but when 2 of 3 strength tests passed meant that a candidate could pass handgrip and sit-ups and fail with 0 push-ups and still begin training, it's an improvement.

As for the CF Expres not being the only standard in the CF, you are correct, but missed the point I was trying to make.  The CF Expres is the only recognized, and standardized test upon which we can judge someone's phyical fitness across all elements.  They (CMP) are working toward developing more challenging standards for each of the elements, but until then, the Expres is what we have.

 

[xxmixkexx]

Wait so if I could only do 5 push ups I would still be able to do BMQ?  I can get my numbers fine, I made damn sure of that.  That is crazy.

 

[JBoyd]

Wait so if I could only do 5 push ups I would still be able to do BMQ?  I can get my numbers fine, I made damn sure of that.  That is crazy.

No the requirements to continue on Platoon are still the same 19 pushups for males, level 6 on the express test, 30 situps and the handgrip. What has changed is that there is now a threshold to meet to be sent to WFT. If you do not meet 4 pushups and level 3.5 on the express then you are immediately released. If you pass the threshold but do not meet the platoon requirement you are sent to WFT

 

[xxmixkexx]

O ok, thanks for clearing that up.

 

[PMedMoe]

No the requirements to continue on Platoon are still the same 19 pushups for males, level 6 on the express test, 30 situps and the handgrip.

Depending on age, of course.

 

[JBoyd]

Depending on age, of course.

sorry yes, should have specified that I was listing the requirements for males under 35.

For anyone wishing to be clarified on the new PT standards they have no posted them on the recruiting website.

http://www.forces.ca/media/_PDF/physical_fitness_en.pdf

Page 10

remember these are for RegF. It does look like they have lowered situps for males under 35 to 19 though. Also the WFT standards are only for those under 35.

 

[Tulach Ard]

ah good, good information.

So here is a question. I read through that online form, and see that although chinups are included, they are not part of your official test. So for the 'first week minimum standards' you are required to pass to continue, should you fail those, are you still put into WFT? Or are they there for more of a "judge" to see how we will progress?

As well I have heard (different answers from EVERY source I ask) about push up posture.  Yes the diagram is right on the form, but when we are pushing up and down must your elbows actually stay pointed straight backwards? They naturally point outwards for me. I did try to do them with my elbows tight against my sides and had much difficulty. I have no problem at all doing pushups with my elbows naturally where they sit. So question...is that unnatural way to do them what they will make us do?

 

[LordVagabond]

...and see that although chinups are included, they are not part of your official test.

From my understanding, talking to the guys at CFRC Calgary, the chinups are not used for official testing because everyone is a different weight and build, but they are suggested ("strongly suggested" as the recruiter said) to help you prepare for the confidence course in training. Monkey bars, netting climbs, rope ladder climbs, all stuff that could require you to "pull up" with your upper body. So it's just there to get you at least in the right direction (from what I understand from the CFRC, I may be totally off base, it's just what the Sgt there told me  :warstory: )

 

[X-mo-1979]

I'm proud to say my cousin a overweight housewife of 25 yrs after raising three kids following her husbands career decided she was going to join the airforce.After deciding she was going to join she looked at the minimum requirements and guess what she did?

TRAINED!!
She lost 70 lbs and is now down to a very lean woman who can meet the basic requirements.Requirements for men!Imagine that!

My question is WHO decided that a man should be able to do X number of sit ups/push ups/beep?When was that decided?And who would you have to contact to try to change this.

In my opinionI love a free country)

-Wasting money to pay recruits who cannot be bothered to meet the min req can be spent elsewhere.I'm sure we can spend the huge amount of money elsewhere.(I'm guessing it's a lot of money.training room and board and paychecks plus staff etc.)

-Strain on our training system that could use the rooms taken up by people who cannot meet the standards to house soldiers who are ready.

-Staff having to work even longer hours doing everything from admin to class's for soldiers who cannot take the class's with their original courses.

I know there will be rebuttals about "I am a success story".

But why do you feel required to receive pay and a free life while providing the system with a strain?Why could you NOT do it on your own as a civilian?

I look at it this way.
I can look on jobbank.ca and see a job for a lets say physiotherapist.Awesome pay!But looking at the bottom I realize I do not meet the minimum requirement of having 7 years of schooling.So do they take me in pay for my education; while paying me as a physiotherapist on top of that?Of course not!Sounds silly right?

Sort of like the CF and meeting minimum requirements isn't it?


-

 

[erage]

does this mean you cant pass the beep test, 2 of the strength and then fail like the handgrip and still move on? or do you still go to WFT?

 

[Celticgirl]

does this mean you cant pass the beep test, 2 of the strength and then fail like the handgrip and still move on? or do you still go to WFT?

I believe the way it goes is this: You can fail one strength and still stay on platoon *IF* you meet the absolute minimum push-up requirements (2 for women, 4 for men). Failing that minimum = going home. Failing the shuttle run *or* 2 or more strengths = WFT (provided you have met that absolute min. for push-ups).

Clear as mud?

 

[British Army]

Wow...big difference. Perhaps it's due to the fact that the U.S. has a much (much) larger population to draw from, and perhaps does not face the recruiting challenges of its Northern neighbour. Just a guess.

Not that I am advocating lax standards.    Far from it.

I don't know what the reasons are but the CF minimum fitness standard does seem fairly low in comparison to other forces.  Here's the current standards for the British Army (as a Vehicle Tech) - in addition, there's also an annual 8 mile Combat Fitness Test (boot march) carrying 35lb (50lb for teeth arms), which has to be done in under 2 hrs:

 

[X-mo-1979]

I don't know what the reasons are but the CF minimum fitness standard does seem fairly low in comparison to other forces.  Here's the current standards for the British Army (as a Vehicle Tech) - in addition, there's also an annual 8 mile Combat Fitness Test (boot march) carrying 35lb (50lb for teeth arms), which has to be done in under 2 hrs:

And to me that looks very fair.Not difficult for all to achieve,but an excellent base for sure.I was working with the Brit's a while back,and one of the first things that was brought up was the size of some of our "lads".
I honestly have no clue where our fitness test was developed.Would be interesting to see.
I like that the Brit test factored in that women were only lacking in upper body strength,and the rest was the same.While I think one standard such as this should be the norm, I do agree that women tend to have a lower upper body strength,and more endurance.
Things are only going to get worse as time/fat pandemic continue on.

 

[Ruski]

I believe the way it goes is this: You can fail one strength and still stay on platoon *IF* you meet the absolute minimum push-up requirements (2 for women, 4 for men). Failing that minimum = going home. Failing the shuttle run *or* 2 or more strengths = WFT (provided you have met that absolute min. for push-ups).

Clear as mud?

http://www.cflrs.forces.gc.ca/menu/ps/rec/index-eng.asp

According to this site :: In order to go on with the course, a minimum standard must be achieved: the candidate must successfully pass the shuttle run and two of the three muscular components. As well, women are required to do a minimum of two push-ups, while men are required to do four.

If the minimum standard is not achieved, the candidate may join a specialized fitness training program that is also offered at CFLRS. The program integrates overall health coaching, diet and a rigorous personalized fitness program that lasts a maximum of 90 days.


---

But when asked the R/C they declined that. and said just mit the minimum threshold and there is no if ands or buts ur going to WTF instead of Platoon


so im confused..

 

[George Wallace]

http://www.cflrs.forces.gc.ca/menu/ps/rec/index-eng.asp

But when asked the R/C they declined that. and said just mit the minimum threshold and there is no if ands or buts ur going to WTF instead of Platoon


so im confused..

I'll say you are. 

If you pass the minimum threshold you DO NOT go to WTF (or whatever it is called now).

 

[Ruski]

so if the person completes 6.0 on shuttle and 2/3 strenghts they proceed? but if they fail shuttle but get a 3.5 and 4 push ups they go to wtf- else they get released. Correct?

 

[traviss-g]

As well I have heard (different answers from EVERY source I ask) about push up posture.  Yes the diagram is right on the form, but when we are pushing up and down must your elbows actually stay pointed straight backwards? They naturally point outwards for me. I did try to do them with my elbows tight against my sides and had much difficulty. I have no problem at all doing pushups with my elbows naturally where they sit. So question...is that unnatural way to do them what they will make us do?

Yea I have the same thing, can anyone answer this?

 

[SupersonicMax]

Never had my elbows pointed back when I do mine.  After 9 years and numerous PT Tests (hmmm let's see.  19 PT Tests), I think they would have told me

 

[Tulach Ard]

Never had my elbows pointed back when I do mine.  After 9 years and numerous PT Tests (hmmm let's see.  19 PT Tests), I think they would have told me

Thats what I thought. Thanks Max!