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F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF)

  • Thread starter Thread starter Sharpey
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dapaterson said:
Well, the Cyclone contract was signed in 2004; we're only 11 years into that development cycle...

Unfortuantely, we're not really into a development cycle; we're still trying to get "spec compliance."

I guess it means which part of the development cycle; in the context of this discussion, yep, 11 years into it.  The quicker we get into the post-acceptance, In Service Support, development cycle, the better!
 
dapaterson said:
Well, the Cyclone contract was signed in 2004; we're only 11 years into that development cycle...

True.  :nod:  (although arguably MHP is a re-birth of NSA, itself a rebirth of SKR from the 70's...  ;) )
 
Baz said:
Unfortuantely, we're not really into a development cycle; we're still trying to get "spec compliance."

I guess it means which part of the development cycle; in the context of this discussion, yep, 11 years into it.  The quicker we get into the post-acceptance, In Service Support, development cycle, the better!

Hung up on milestones and terminology - again driven by accountants.  What you are really facing is people obsessing over who is going to pay the bills because the Observed reality doesn't match the plan and the cost of Acting to Orient the reality to the plan is frightening people into not Deciding.

I'm willing to bet that if war broke out tomorrow and there was a seagoing requirement for helos every SeaKing and Cyclone available would be flying and everything afloat would suddenly sprout flight decks capable of taking Chinooks and Griffons with temporary hangars being made from Sprung structures and containers.

This is the point at which the planners become their own worst enemy.  In their search for exactitude, their ability to delay a decision by always finding another question to ask, they drive the project time line to the right and suck up countless dollars answering their own silly-bugger questions.

One way to take fear out of the equation, fear that is compounded by turning projects in super-projects and mega-projects, is to reduce the projects to bite size chunks.

Lease half-a-dozen helos and try them on for size.  Adjust accordingly.  Equip the 1st Bns with Jeeps, 2nd Bns with Landrovers and 3rd Bns with G Wagens.  After a couple of years compare notes and decide on a common solution..... etc.

WW2 was fought with units having scrounged mixes of locally modified and patched together vehicles.
 
Not to mention a "Uber-enemy" that fought quite well with adhoc AFV's and horse equipped infantry. How long did it take the Brits to design the modification of the Canberra for the Falkland campaign? I believe it was roughly done on a napkin. 
 
US Navy Deputy CNO:


“The F-35 is absolutely essential in the A2/AD [anti-access/area-denial] environment,” said Vice Admiral Joseph Aucoin, deputy chief of naval operations for warfare capabilities. “The way we’ve shaped our air wing, with the [Boeing F/A-18E/F] Super Hornet becoming more of a truck, and the F-35B and C [on the first day of conflict] being able to [penetrate] into those integrated air defences and the Super Hornet partnering with them as the way to go.”

The admiral was speaking at the Center for Strategic and International Studies think tank.

He added, however, that the navy may be forced to curtail buying quantities of costly aircraft, speaking generally but including the F-35. “It’s a terrific aircraft, but it’s expensive,” he said of the F-35. But if “we keep on building [equipment] the way we are, the numbers are going to come down.”..
http://www.janes.com/article/53465/deputy-cno-says-both-f-35-and-uclass-needed-for-future-carrier-air-wing

Mark
Ottawa
 
AvWeek:

As F-35 Begins Operations, More Hurdles Loom
But global ops with full software and weapons capability remain a challenge

Amy Butler

With the long-awaited operational debut of the F-35B finally official with the U.S. Marine Corps, 11 other customers are taking note. But this milestone is merely a data point for them as they await completion of the development of a long-promised,  more robust version of the jet, a milestone two years away.

The program still faces major testing challenges, including continued trials of the 3F software package required for external weapons stores, a wider selection of munitions and the oft lauded but never articulated electronic warfare capabilities. And cost remains a shadow over the program despite the testing progress. Without substantial near-term buy-in from international customers, the jet will not decrease to the $85 million price point promised by Lockheed Martin, making it too expensive for some militaries to buy.

Against these pressures, the Marine Corps officially declared its F-35B initial operational capability (IOC) July 31, five years later than planned and after billions of dollars of overruns—some of that specifically paid to fix deficiencies in the short-takeoff-and-vertical-landing inherent to the B version...

The Marines are declaring IOC with the limited capabilities provided by Lockheed Martin’s 2B software package. This allows for use only of the AIM-120 air-to-air missile, 500-lb. laser-guided bombs and the 2,000-lb. Joint Direct Attack Munition. The early software release allows for employment of weapons only from the jet’s internal bay.

Even without the upgrades, Lt. Gen. Jon Davis, the Marines’ deputy commandant for aviation, insists the aircraft will be more effective than the F/A-18 Hornets and AV-8B Harriers it will replace. The software supports “basic” close air support and interdiction missions as well as “limited” suppression of enemy air defense and destruction of air defense missions, according to the service...

The service expects to declare full operational capability (FOC) in the fourth quarter of fiscal 2017, at the end of the program’s development phase, which began in October 2001. After meeting that milestone, the Marines will finally have the 3F software package, which allows for use of far more weapons and the aircraft’s full electronic-attack capability, including the missionized gun outlined specifically for the Marine Corps...

Another limitation of the early, 2B F-35s is limited use of the aircraft’s Multifunction Advanced Data Link (MADL), designed to covertly share a pilot’s situational awareness data, including airborne and ground targets. Intended to operate among a four-aircraft formation of aircraft, thus far MADL is reliable only in two-aircraft formations. Temporarily, the Marines plan to mitigate this by linking two of these groupings with the legacy Link 16 data link.

The drawback to this strategy is that Link 16 is not covert. Because it broadcasts, an enemy could detect it and unmask an F-35’s general location. MADL employs a waveform and directional antenna that allows it to maintain its stealthy posture, key to penetrating well-defended airspace.

F-35 program officials have tested a software patch to improve the reliability of the data link across four-aircraft formations, and the Marines are set to receive it as soon as possible. “Right now I don’t have fusion on anything,” Davis said during a press teleconference July 27. But the service opted to declare IOC in the meantime so that it can begin retiring the aging Hornets and Harriers...
http://aviationweek.com/defense/f-35-begins-operations-more-hurdles-loom

Mark
Ottawa
 
Just one view which didn't seem to count much in Japan, South Korea or Australia's plans to acquire the F-35.

Diplomat

Why the F-35 Is Particularly Ill-Suited to Succeed in the Asia-Pacific
The Asia-Pacific’s expansive geography leaves short-range tactical fighters ill-suited for success and versatility.


A new report titled “Thunder without Lightning,” (PDF) authored by Bill French and Daniel Edgren for the National Security Network (NSN), argues that the United States’ fifth-generation fighter, the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF), has major shortcomings that will leave it particularly ill-suited to project air power in the Asia-Pacific region. The F-35 has come under wide-ranging criticism, primarily for the considerable expansion of the costs associated with the program but also for its perceived operational shortcomings. The NSN report is the latest salvo against the United States’ flagship fighter program, the costs of which continue to balloon, inching toward half-a-trillion dollars.

In short, the F-35 just doesn’t have the right feature set to thrive in the geographically expansive war-fighting scenarios foreseen in the Asia-Pacific.

Specifically, the authors write that “The F-35’s short range means that it will be of limited use in geographically expansive theaters like the Asia-Pacific or against so-called anti-access threats whereby adversaries can target forward airbases.” In recent years, U.S. strategic thought has fixated on counter anti-access/area-denial (A2/AD) challenges from possible adversaries in the Asia-Pacific. Specifically, the U.S. Department of Defense has planned for contingencies involving a potential war with China, which is heavily investing in these sorts of technologies to make intervention costly for U.S. conventional forces.

(...SNIPPED)
 
Another "expert" report is out criticizing the F-35 for being less capable than F-18, F-16 and A-10.  As noted earlier in this thread, the F-35 will under-perform next to older aircraft if one attempts to fight it as though it were one of these older aircraft.
F-35 might not meet performance standards of CF-18s: U.S. think tank
Murray Brewster, The Canadian Press
Published Tuesday, August 11, 2015 6:29PM EDT

OTTAWA -- A U.S. defence and foreign affairs think tank released a comprehensive report Tuesday suggesting the oft-maligned F-35 jet might not meet the performance standards of existing fighter planes, including Canada's CF-18s.

The National Security Network, a non-profit foreign policy group based in Washington, D.C., is the latest organization to raise questions about the stealth fighter program, which is over budget and behind schedule in the U.S.

Other organizations, including the Rand Corp., have studied the troubled program, but much of the analysis has revolved around the enormous cost and some of the technical snags, such as software, that have held up development. There have also been simulations that have compared the F-35 to potential competitors.

One of the key features of the latest report is its comparison of F-35 operational capabilities with the jets it is intended to replace, including the F-16, F-18 and A-10. In each case, the stealth fighter comes up short.

The group urges the Obama administration to do a "serious" reassessment of the program and determine whether there are alternatives available.

"Whether this opportunity to seriously reassess DOD's commitment to the F-35 will be seized remains to be seen," the report said. "But, by staying fully committed to the F-35 program, the United States is investing unprecedented resources in the wrong aircraft, at the wrong time, for the wrong reasons."

No one at Lockheed Martin, the plane's U.S.'s manufacturer, was immediately available for comment.

The Harper government put its purchase of 65 F-35s on hold after being accused by the auditor general of fudging the price tag and not doing sufficient research. It plans to extend the life of the CF-18s to 2025.

The planned RCAF purchase, which would have cost taxpayers an estimated $44 billion over its four-decade lifetime, was a prominent feature of the last election campaign in 2011, but since the auditor general's report it has slipped off the public radar as the bureaucracy has buried it in studies, analyses and process.

Some defence observers and commentators have suggested the plan to refurbish the 1980s-era CF-18s has effectively neutralized the politically damaging issue, at least until the Oct. 19 vote. But University of British Columbia political scientist and defence expert Michael Byers says the new report should remind the public that replacement of the one of the military's core fleets has been badly mismanaged.

"I think governments need to be made to own failures like that," said Byers, who has urged the government to abandon the F-35 in favour of another plane. "Our fleet of fighter aircraft is unacceptably old and there is no current plan to replace them."

Byers said metal fatigue on the CF-18 airframes is a concern. The air force has said the current bombing campaign in Iraq and Syria is not adding to wear on the existing jets because they are not facing the stress of high-speed manoeuvres.

Byers accepts that, but he says the increasing threat of Russian incursions -- either into Canadian airspace or in other NATO countries -- means the fighters will be called upon to perform more stressful flying.

Researchers noted that matching the F-16's manoeuvrability was a minimum design requirement for the F-35, yet they concluded the older jet is capable of flying faster and enjoys better wing-loading performance, an aspect critical for dogfighting.

The F-16 is not considered as manoeuvrable as the F-18 Hornet, of which Canada has about 75 still airworthy.
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/f-35-might-not-meet-performance-standards-of-cf-18s-u-s-think-tank-1.2512495

... but don't take the media's word.  Have a look a the actual report here:  http://nsnetwork.org/cms/assets/uploads/2015/08/F-35_FINAL.pdf  (alternate path here: http://nsnetwork.org/report-f-35-thunder-without-lightning/)

I noticed a claim that the F-35 will not have a data down-link to share video with ground forces.  I assume there is more (or rather another side) to this claim than presented.
 
I looked up the National Security Network. (emphasis mine)

What We Do

We challenge misguided, overly militarized conservative approaches to foreign policy by promoting a pragmatic international engagement that emphasizes diplomatic and economic tools, along with responsible use of military power, to ensure American’s security and promote American values through:

Policy analysis and development: NSN convenes top foreign policy experts and advocates to identify and develop progressive approaches to key foreign policy and national security challenges and distills it for various audiences to use, such as elected officials and coalition partners.

Messaging: NSN works with experts, advocacy groups, and candidates to develop and sharpen national security messages that will resonate with the right audience at the right time.

Building a strong progressive national security infrastructure: NSN offers substantive policy advice, builds bridges between diverse audiences, and shares resources to help progressives – from Capitol Hill to national advocacy campaigns to local community groups – turn shared basic principles into a consistently smart, savvy voice on national security.

Totally a non-biased report.
 
US Navy and F-35C:

Super Hornet Service Life Extension to Commence as Early as 2017

The Navy will have to begin a service life extension program on its fleet of F/A-18 E and F Super Hornets as early as 2017 because of delays fielding the joint strike fighter, the service's top aviation official said Aug. 12.

"Our first Super Hornets are getting to 6,000 hours probably at the end of next year so that's the place where we'll start opening them up and we'll do what we call a service life assessment program," said Navy Vice Adm. Mike Shoemaker, the commander of naval air forces and the naval air force for the U.S. Pacific Fleet. The assessment will determine what needs to be repaired so fixes can be standardized as best as possible across the fleet, Shoemaker said.

He described a domino effect where delays fielding the Navy's F-35 variant has led to increased flight hours for the service's legacy jet fighters.

...refurbishing the Hornets has proven more difficult than officials first imagined [RCAF CF-18s and 2025?], and while they are out of commission, the service's Super Hornets are taking up the slack and exhausting their flight hours at an accelerated pace, he said...
http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/blog/Lists/Posts/Post.aspx?ID=1919

Mark
Ottawa

 

 
More USN:

US Navy considers reduced annual F-35C buy

The US Navy believes budget pressures and competing priorities could drive it to purchase fewer Lockheed Martin F-35Cs per year in the 2020s, and a worst-case scenario could see it procure as few as 12 aircraft per year, or one squadron.

Naval Air Forces commander Vice Adm Mike Shoemaker says the current plan is to purchase around 20 carrier variants per year in the 2020s, but depending on the resources available, annual output could fall to anywhere between 12 and 20 aircraft.

“I think the current realities of the budget and other priories inside the navy may drive something between those two numbers, but we’re still on the path to [initial operational capability] for our first squadron in 2018 [if all goes well],” Shoemaker said at the US Centre for Strategic and International Studies in Washington.

“I’ll keep working as hard as I can with our leadership in the [Pentagon] to ensure we can stay on the path and get out of Classic Hornets and replace them with our F-35C as quick as we can.”

The admiral had two charts with him at the forum, one showing an annual buy of 12 C-models per year through the 2020s and one showing a buy rate of 12. The navy’s latest five-year spending plan shows production peaking at 12 in 2020 as it works toward a total purchase of 369 aircraft to replace its legacy fleet of Boeing F/A-18C/D Hornets.

Talk of decreased production rate comes just one month after incoming chairman of the joint chiefs of staff Gen Joseph Dunford told lawmakers the Pentagon was reviewing how many F-35s it should purchase given new defence strategic guidance and budget pressures, casting doubt about the current requirement for 2,443 aircraft, which was set about two decades ago.

The navy is by far the least enthusiastic recipient of the F-35, with the Marine Corps and Air Force holding firm on their annual buys despite facing similar budget pressures...
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/us-navy-considers-reduced-annual-f-35c-buy-415654/

Mark
Ottawa
 
The new helmet that is apparently critical to all the promised awesomeness has finally been delivered (well, the first one has been delivered): 

Rockwell Delivers First Gen 3 Helmet for F-35
http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/air-space/strike/2015/08/12/rockwell-delivers-first-gen-3-helmet-f-35/31538101/
 
As for US Marines--some Hornets to fly until 2030--note life extension (also for USN):

Marines pushing forward with F-35 conversion after IOC

The US Marine Corps must “extract every ounce of life” from its inventory of ageing combat types as it transitions to the multi-mission Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) over the next 16 years, says the general in charge of the service's aviation branch.

The USMC is wholly dependent on buying 353 short take-off and vertical landing F-35Bs and 67 carrier-based F-35Cs to replace its larger force of Boeing AV-8B Harriers and F/A-18 Hornets, and Northrop Grumman EA-6B Prowlers. It recently declared initial operational capability with the first F-35B combat squadron based in Yuma, Arizona.

On 12 August the service revealed the timeframe to transition to the JSF, saying the switch from the Harrier to the F-35B will take 11 years with the last aircraft retiring in 2026, “subject to review, assessment and a final decision in 2019”.

Replacing the F/A-18 Hornet will take 15 years, concluding in 2030. In the interim, the US Navy and USMC are extending the service life of their legacy Hornets from 6,000h to over 9,000h. The Hornets are being overhauled at the navy’s Fleet Readiness Centre-Southwest in San Diego, California, at a rate of 40 to 50 aircraft per year...
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/marines-pushing-forward-with-f-35-conversion-after-ioc-415678/

Mark
Ottawa
 
More Marines:

Davis: F-35B External Weapons Give Marines 4th, 5th Generation Capabilities in One Plane

The Marine Corps’ Lockheed Martin F-35B Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) will have the stealth of a fifth-generation fighter and a weapons payload surpassing a fourth-generation fighter by the time a software upgrade is ready for fielding in 2017, the Marines’ top aviator said this week.

The aircraft’s ability to alternate between accessing contested areas and deliverying heavy fire power based on the needs of any given sortie “I think for our adversaries will be quite worrisome, for us should be a source of great comfort,” Deputy Commandant of the Marine Corps for Aviation Lt. Gen. Jon Davis said Wednesday at an event cohosted by the Center for Strategic and International Studies and the U.S. Naval Institute.

“No other airplane can go from fifth to fourth and back to fifth again. I’m buying pylons for the airplane. I get the pylons in 3F software, which comes in 2017. [With the pylons] I can load up an F-35B with about 3,000 pounds more ordnance than I can put on an F-18 right now,” Davis said...

[F-35 Lightning II Program Office spokesman Joe] DellaVedova said testing for the pylons and development of the rest of the 3F software upgrade package is ongoing. The Marines’ current 2B software allows them to carry two air-to-ground weapons and one air-to-air weapon internally: the 1,000-pound GBU-32 Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM), the 500-pound GBU-12 Paveway II laser-guided bomb and the AIM-120C Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile (AMRAAM)...
http://news.usni.org/2015/08/13/davis-f-35b-external-weapons-give-marines-4th-5th-generation-capabilities-in-one-plane

Mark
Ottawa

 
More info on F-35

http://nextbigfuture.com/2015/08/air-force-admits-big-f35-problems-and.html

Bearpaw
 
Something to silence the naysayers who said the F-35 has trouble firing its guns:

Aviationist

Watch an F-35A fire 181 rounds from its four-barrel 25mm Gatling gun embedded in the left wing
Aug 21 2015 - 1 Comment

By David Cenciotti

The F-35 Integrated Test Force has just released an interesting video showing the 181 round gun burst of the 25 millimeter Gatling gun embedded in the F-35A’s left wing root.

The video was filmed during a ground test at Edwards Air Force Base, Calif., Gun Harmonizing Range on Aug. 14; initial shots were fired on Jun. 9 and ground testing should be completed by the end of this month. Airborne testing is to start in the fall and at the end of the firing campaign the gun will be operative by 2017.

According to LM, the F-35 flight sciences aircraft, AF-2, underwent instrumentation modifications and used a production version of the GAU-22/A gun to achieve the full capacity of 181 rounds: along with practice PGU-23/U target practice rounds (which do not explode on impact) software to replicate being in flight was uploaded to the aircraft to conduct the test.

(...SNIPPED)

Plus more carrier deck trials ahead for the C model:

Defense News

Navy To Test F-35C Off Eisenhower in October
By Lara Seligman 4:28 p.m. EDT August 20, 2015

WASHINGTON — The US Navy is planning at-sea testing of the carrier variant joint strike fighter in the first few weeks of October aboard the aircraft carrier USS Eisenhower, according to several sources.

The upcoming sea trials will mark the second phase of developmental testing for the Lockheed Martin-made F-35C. During the test period, the team will evaluate the aircraft’s ability to launch and recover from the carrier, and its performance in suboptimal conditions and during night operations.

The Navy conducted initial sea trials with the fighter jet aboard the carrier USS Nimitz (CVN-68) off the coast of Southern California in November. During the testing period, the Navy completed 124 catapult launches and arrested landings with zero missed arrestments, service spokeswoman Sylvia Pierson said Thursday. Because the aircraft performed so well, the test team decided to conduct night operations, an unprecedented feat during the first at-sea period of any naval aircraft since the F-4 era, Pierson said.

(...SNIPPED)


 
After seeing that door rattle with the gatling gun going, I wonder how it would fair flying while open, or in a moderate G turn... seems like its kinda flimsy if its bouncing just from the force of the 25mm leaving the barrel.
 
..."just the force" is actually a pretty intense shock-wave from each supersonic bullet.  The corallory on the engineering side of the house is that making the door mount too stiff would lead to fatigue and failure...that or the door and mount would have to be unacceptably heavy...

:2c:

G2G
 
PuckChaser said:
After seeing that door rattle with the gatling gun going, I wonder how it would fair flying while open, or in a moderate G turn... seems like its kinda flimsy if its bouncing just from the force of the 25mm leaving the barrel.
I'm sure the engineers working on the system took note of your comment, and will fix the problem shortly.  :salute:
 
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