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With a pre-election goal of a balanced budget, not going to happen.MilEME09 said:
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Meanwhile Denmark is launching its own process--rather similar to the just completed-NFPS one--but one that however is supposed to lead directly to a political decision on the plane to buy (usual copyright disclaimer):
Mark
Ottawa
Mark
Ottawa
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http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/glendale/2014/04/15/lukes-new-f-redefines-modern-warfare/7727645/ (Video incl)
Luke's new F-35 redefines modern warfare
Paul Giblin, The Republic | azcentral.com 11:32 p.m. MST April 14, 2014
The new F-35 pilot-training program at Luke Air Force Base in Glendale (Phoenix, AZ) is developing aviators for an era of warfare the world has yet to experience.
Future fights will be contested on the digital frontier, according to military analysts who have studied the supersonic stealth fighter jets.
Unlike conventional warfare, next-generation battles will rely on cutting-edge technology linking networks of allied weapons systems that together can locate and destroy targets many miles away. Planes, ships, missiles and troops from various countries will be able to talk to each other and plot tactics literally on the fly.
"The F-35 will achieve its greatness as a coalition leader where information dominance is key," said Michael W. Wynne, who previously served as secretary of the Air Force and as a former executive for the aircraft's manufacturer, Lockheed Martin.
If the stealth F-35 Lightning II jets perform as envisioned, the next generation of pilots might never see targets with their own eyes and might never fly close enough to adversaries to become involved in one-on-one dogfights.
The planes are designed to engage in electronic warfare using sophisticated airborne computer systems that tie in to their sensors and communications systems. They require more than 8 million lines of software code to integrate their systems. The stealth F-22 Raptor fighters that became fully operational in 2005 require 2.2 million lines of code.
As a result, F-35 pilots will be able to fly undetected past enemy radar and defense systems to identify targets on the ground, sea or air, according to analysts.
Pilots from the U.S. and allied countries flying F-35s 25 to 30 miles apart will be able to stitch together real-time maps that all of them will be able to use. They also will be able to direct their own missiles — or weapons from other planes, ships, submarines or ground stations — to targets they've selected while airborne.
The idea is that pilots will become battle managers — and that kids who grew up using iPhones will fill those jobs.
"It's a whole new way of doing combat," said Robbin F. Laird, who has consulted for several think tanks, including the Center for Naval Analysis and the Institute for Defense Analysis. "It's a huge leap forward. It's very different."
Pentagon decision-makers believe the single-engine, single-seat jets are different enough to make them the U.S.' front-line fighter for the next 50 years or so. The Pentagon is projected to purchase 2,443 of the jets in three variants: the F-35A for the Air Force, the F-35B for the Marines and the F-35C for the Navy.
The projected cost for the entire fleet is $392 billion.
At least 10 allies from Norway to Australia are expected to buy hundreds more.
The F-35 will keep the U.S. well-armed for decades, said Rep. Trent Franks, R-Ariz., a member of the House Armed Services Committee.
"We simply have never been able to predict what our next challenge will be," said Franks, whose district includes Luke.
Luke is destined to become the busiest F-35 training base in the Air Force and the largest F-35 base of any kind worldwide. When the allotment at Luke reaches its full compliment, the base will be home to 144 F-35s, including several foreign-owned F-35s. U.S. and allied pilots will train together in international squadrons.
Luke's first F-35 arrived at the base March 10, just in time for its official unveiling at Luke's air show the following weekend. Additional planes are expected to arrive every month or so for the next decade as they are manufactured at Lockheed Martin's assembly plant in Fort Worth, Texas.
The F-35 program has been besieged by delays and cost overruns. It is seven years behind schedule and roughly 70 percent over budget, according to the Government Accountability Office, an independent agency that provides audit, evaluation and investigative services for Congress.
The latest purchase orders for the F-35A place its price at approximately $131.9 million each. The other versions cost more. And those costs exclude front-end development costs.
Discussions about whether the F-35 will dominate the sky appear preliminary, with technical deficiencies slowing the rollout schedule. Shortly after the VIP-studded unveiling of Luke's first F-35, for example, a test pilot flew it to California for additional testing. Luke currently has no F-35s, with the base's F-35 pilots in training going on temporary duty assignments to Eglin Air Force Base in Florida, which has operational F-35s.
Nonetheless, the Pentagon considers the F-35 a fifth-generation fighter plane, noting that it features a combination of capabilities lacking in older fighters such as the twin-engine F-15 Strike Eagle and the single-engine F-16 Fighting Falcon.
The F-35's defining characteristics include fully integrated avionics and sensors; speed and maneuverability; low radar observability; and secure digital communications systems.
Laird said he understands why military officials and aerospace-industry executives call it a fifth-generation aircraft, but he is not comfortable with the term.
"The problem is, if you say 'second, third, fourth' and you go down that path, it just looks like a linear process. It isn't," he said. "It's the first aircraft that sees 360 degrees around itself, for openers. And, basically, it just operates in a very different operational style."
The plane's avionics and sensors can detect targets and threats 360 degrees at every axis, giving pilots computer-enhanced full spherical views of their surroundings day or night, according to Lockheed Martin test pilot Bill Gigliotti and others who have flown it.
Military officials refer to F-35s as joint strike fighters, expressing the idea that they will fill the seemingly divergent roles of several older types of planes in use among the Air Force, Marines and Navy that they are scheduled to replace.
F-35s must serve the needs of all three services because of downward pressure on the defense budget, said Eric Fanning, undersecretary of the Air Force. Pentagon decision-makers believe so strongly in the F-35 that they opted to skip some modernization programs in older types of planes to maintain funding for the F-35, he said.
"We have to, as we get smaller, invest in platforms that are multimission-capable. The joint strike fighter can contribute in close air support and in very high-end, very contested environments," Fanning told The Republic.
Close air support is a type of mission in which pilots would assist ground troops engaged in firefights, like those in Afghanistan. The F-35's targeting ability and firepower, rather than its stealth and supersonic speed, would be its chief assets in that sort of encounter.
The plane generally is equipped with as many as four guided air-to-air missiles or air-to-ground bombs in internal weapons bays, but it can be equipped with additional armaments under its wings at the expense of its stealthiness. A weapons-heavy configuration would be more typical for close air support.
"It will be one of the many platforms we use for that," Fanning said. "Even now, in close air support, we use almost every platform we've got, depending on what the fight is, where the fight is and what we need. The joint strike fighter is developed, in part, with that mission in mind."
A high-end, contested mission likely would involve flying into airspace defended by Russian-built or Chinese-built military hardware. Both Russia and China already have sophisticated radar and surface-to-air missile-defense systems. They also both are developing their own fifth-generation fighters, which could become operational around 2020.
"If our current planes, our fourth-generation planes, go up against the fifth-generation planes that the Russians or the Chinese are building, they're out of the fight before they even know there is a fight," Fanning said. "The opposite is the case with the joint strike fighter."
In that type of scenario, the F-35's stealthiness, sensors and digital communications would come into play. Pilots would penetrate the airspace in high stealth mode, jamming enemy radar while they go. They would sleuth targets from miles away, a process military officials call intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance, or ISR.
Then, they'd coordinate attacks using missiles from U.S. and allied planes, ships and subs operating at safer distances. Allied forces would shoot down hostile airplanes without ever being detected.
Since the F-35 is software-enabled, software upgrades will keep the plane relevant throughout its projected 50-year lifespan, Laird said.
"The F-35 is pushing the transition into armed information warfare, where knowledge is an asset and battle management is increasingly important," Wynne said. "Luke will be training F-35 pilots to be battle managers."
Fifth generation fighter
The F-35 joins the F-22, a multi-role stealth fighter that became operational in 2005, as the world's only fifth-generation fighter jets, according to military analysts. Here's the evolution of fighters:
First generation:
Years: Approximately 1945 to 1955
Characteristics: Turbojet engine
U.S. example: F-86
Second generation:
Years: Approximately 1955 to 1960
Characteristics: Supersonic, on-board radar, guided air-to-air missiles
U.S. example: F-106
Third generation:
Years: Approximately 1960 to 1970
Characteristics: Multi-role, improved avionics, precision munitions
U.S. example: F-4E
Fourth generation:
Years: Approximately 1970 to 2000
Characteristics: Sophisticated avionics, improved precision munitions, enhanced radar, improved maneuverability, low observability
U.S. example: F-15E
Fifth generation:
Years: Approximately 2000 and beyond
Characteristics: Integrated avionics and sensors, greater speed and maneuverability, improved low observability, network centric
U.S. example: F-35
Source: U.S. Air Force
Luke's new F-35 redefines modern warfare
Paul Giblin, The Republic | azcentral.com 11:32 p.m. MST April 14, 2014
The new F-35 pilot-training program at Luke Air Force Base in Glendale (Phoenix, AZ) is developing aviators for an era of warfare the world has yet to experience.
Future fights will be contested on the digital frontier, according to military analysts who have studied the supersonic stealth fighter jets.
Unlike conventional warfare, next-generation battles will rely on cutting-edge technology linking networks of allied weapons systems that together can locate and destroy targets many miles away. Planes, ships, missiles and troops from various countries will be able to talk to each other and plot tactics literally on the fly.
"The F-35 will achieve its greatness as a coalition leader where information dominance is key," said Michael W. Wynne, who previously served as secretary of the Air Force and as a former executive for the aircraft's manufacturer, Lockheed Martin.
If the stealth F-35 Lightning II jets perform as envisioned, the next generation of pilots might never see targets with their own eyes and might never fly close enough to adversaries to become involved in one-on-one dogfights.
The planes are designed to engage in electronic warfare using sophisticated airborne computer systems that tie in to their sensors and communications systems. They require more than 8 million lines of software code to integrate their systems. The stealth F-22 Raptor fighters that became fully operational in 2005 require 2.2 million lines of code.
As a result, F-35 pilots will be able to fly undetected past enemy radar and defense systems to identify targets on the ground, sea or air, according to analysts.
Pilots from the U.S. and allied countries flying F-35s 25 to 30 miles apart will be able to stitch together real-time maps that all of them will be able to use. They also will be able to direct their own missiles — or weapons from other planes, ships, submarines or ground stations — to targets they've selected while airborne.
The idea is that pilots will become battle managers — and that kids who grew up using iPhones will fill those jobs.
"It's a whole new way of doing combat," said Robbin F. Laird, who has consulted for several think tanks, including the Center for Naval Analysis and the Institute for Defense Analysis. "It's a huge leap forward. It's very different."
Pentagon decision-makers believe the single-engine, single-seat jets are different enough to make them the U.S.' front-line fighter for the next 50 years or so. The Pentagon is projected to purchase 2,443 of the jets in three variants: the F-35A for the Air Force, the F-35B for the Marines and the F-35C for the Navy.
The projected cost for the entire fleet is $392 billion.
At least 10 allies from Norway to Australia are expected to buy hundreds more.
The F-35 will keep the U.S. well-armed for decades, said Rep. Trent Franks, R-Ariz., a member of the House Armed Services Committee.
"We simply have never been able to predict what our next challenge will be," said Franks, whose district includes Luke.
Luke is destined to become the busiest F-35 training base in the Air Force and the largest F-35 base of any kind worldwide. When the allotment at Luke reaches its full compliment, the base will be home to 144 F-35s, including several foreign-owned F-35s. U.S. and allied pilots will train together in international squadrons.
Luke's first F-35 arrived at the base March 10, just in time for its official unveiling at Luke's air show the following weekend. Additional planes are expected to arrive every month or so for the next decade as they are manufactured at Lockheed Martin's assembly plant in Fort Worth, Texas.
The F-35 program has been besieged by delays and cost overruns. It is seven years behind schedule and roughly 70 percent over budget, according to the Government Accountability Office, an independent agency that provides audit, evaluation and investigative services for Congress.
The latest purchase orders for the F-35A place its price at approximately $131.9 million each. The other versions cost more. And those costs exclude front-end development costs.
Discussions about whether the F-35 will dominate the sky appear preliminary, with technical deficiencies slowing the rollout schedule. Shortly after the VIP-studded unveiling of Luke's first F-35, for example, a test pilot flew it to California for additional testing. Luke currently has no F-35s, with the base's F-35 pilots in training going on temporary duty assignments to Eglin Air Force Base in Florida, which has operational F-35s.
Nonetheless, the Pentagon considers the F-35 a fifth-generation fighter plane, noting that it features a combination of capabilities lacking in older fighters such as the twin-engine F-15 Strike Eagle and the single-engine F-16 Fighting Falcon.
The F-35's defining characteristics include fully integrated avionics and sensors; speed and maneuverability; low radar observability; and secure digital communications systems.
Laird said he understands why military officials and aerospace-industry executives call it a fifth-generation aircraft, but he is not comfortable with the term.
"The problem is, if you say 'second, third, fourth' and you go down that path, it just looks like a linear process. It isn't," he said. "It's the first aircraft that sees 360 degrees around itself, for openers. And, basically, it just operates in a very different operational style."
The plane's avionics and sensors can detect targets and threats 360 degrees at every axis, giving pilots computer-enhanced full spherical views of their surroundings day or night, according to Lockheed Martin test pilot Bill Gigliotti and others who have flown it.
Military officials refer to F-35s as joint strike fighters, expressing the idea that they will fill the seemingly divergent roles of several older types of planes in use among the Air Force, Marines and Navy that they are scheduled to replace.
F-35s must serve the needs of all three services because of downward pressure on the defense budget, said Eric Fanning, undersecretary of the Air Force. Pentagon decision-makers believe so strongly in the F-35 that they opted to skip some modernization programs in older types of planes to maintain funding for the F-35, he said.
"We have to, as we get smaller, invest in platforms that are multimission-capable. The joint strike fighter can contribute in close air support and in very high-end, very contested environments," Fanning told The Republic.
Close air support is a type of mission in which pilots would assist ground troops engaged in firefights, like those in Afghanistan. The F-35's targeting ability and firepower, rather than its stealth and supersonic speed, would be its chief assets in that sort of encounter.
The plane generally is equipped with as many as four guided air-to-air missiles or air-to-ground bombs in internal weapons bays, but it can be equipped with additional armaments under its wings at the expense of its stealthiness. A weapons-heavy configuration would be more typical for close air support.
"It will be one of the many platforms we use for that," Fanning said. "Even now, in close air support, we use almost every platform we've got, depending on what the fight is, where the fight is and what we need. The joint strike fighter is developed, in part, with that mission in mind."
A high-end, contested mission likely would involve flying into airspace defended by Russian-built or Chinese-built military hardware. Both Russia and China already have sophisticated radar and surface-to-air missile-defense systems. They also both are developing their own fifth-generation fighters, which could become operational around 2020.
"If our current planes, our fourth-generation planes, go up against the fifth-generation planes that the Russians or the Chinese are building, they're out of the fight before they even know there is a fight," Fanning said. "The opposite is the case with the joint strike fighter."
In that type of scenario, the F-35's stealthiness, sensors and digital communications would come into play. Pilots would penetrate the airspace in high stealth mode, jamming enemy radar while they go. They would sleuth targets from miles away, a process military officials call intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance, or ISR.
Then, they'd coordinate attacks using missiles from U.S. and allied planes, ships and subs operating at safer distances. Allied forces would shoot down hostile airplanes without ever being detected.
Since the F-35 is software-enabled, software upgrades will keep the plane relevant throughout its projected 50-year lifespan, Laird said.
"The F-35 is pushing the transition into armed information warfare, where knowledge is an asset and battle management is increasingly important," Wynne said. "Luke will be training F-35 pilots to be battle managers."
Fifth generation fighter
The F-35 joins the F-22, a multi-role stealth fighter that became operational in 2005, as the world's only fifth-generation fighter jets, according to military analysts. Here's the evolution of fighters:
First generation:
Years: Approximately 1945 to 1955
Characteristics: Turbojet engine
U.S. example: F-86
Second generation:
Years: Approximately 1955 to 1960
Characteristics: Supersonic, on-board radar, guided air-to-air missiles
U.S. example: F-106
Third generation:
Years: Approximately 1960 to 1970
Characteristics: Multi-role, improved avionics, precision munitions
U.S. example: F-4E
Fourth generation:
Years: Approximately 1970 to 2000
Characteristics: Sophisticated avionics, improved precision munitions, enhanced radar, improved maneuverability, low observability
U.S. example: F-15E
Fifth generation:
Years: Approximately 2000 and beyond
Characteristics: Integrated avionics and sensors, greater speed and maneuverability, improved low observability, network centric
U.S. example: F-35
Source: U.S. Air Force
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Please note this article is a Google translation version of the original article in Polish:
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On the heels of the South Korean order, we have the RAAF order...
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Oldgateboatdriver
Army.ca Veteran
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S.M.A. said:
Is it just me that is bad at maths or is "72 F-35's for $12.4 billion through-life outlay" damn close to the "65 F-35's for $9.5 billion" brandied by the Conservatives before the "cost scandal" of the sole sourcing choice for fighter came out?
Just saying
.
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It's not entirely clear but it looks like the $12.4B is just for the 58 now committed to and does not include the earlier 14:
More:
http://www.minister.defence.gov.au/2014/04/23/prime-minister-and-minister-for-defence-joint-media-release-f-35-joint-strike-fighters-to-transform-australias-air-combat-capability/
And note:
The first 14 appear to have been funded earlier:
And from 2009:
So that would put the total cost for 72 at Oz $15.6B--rather more than our $9B for 65 (our dollars are roughly at par).
Mark
Ottawa
More:
http://www.minister.defence.gov.au/2014/04/23/prime-minister-and-minister-for-defence-joint-media-release-f-35-joint-strike-fighters-to-transform-australias-air-combat-capability/
And note:
The first 14 appear to have been funded earlier:
And from 2009:
So that would put the total cost for 72 at Oz $15.6B--rather more than our $9B for 65 (our dollars are roughly at par).
Mark
Ottawa
Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
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Micheal Byers is saying "Thank god for the CF-18's". I so am going to enjoy saying to him one day; "thank you for supporting buying new fighters for the CF!!!!" ;D
Canadians are lucky to still have fighter jets that can go toe-to-toe with Russian MiGs and Sukhois. The fast and manoeuvrable CF-18s were built during the Cold War specifically for aerial combat.
The F-35s that Canada is considering purchasing, however, are designed for a very different mission: evading air defences during the first wave of “shock-and-awe” attacks on the command sites, radar bases and anti-aircraft missiles of “rogue states” such as Iraq, Libya, Syria and Iran.
The recent decision to deploy six CF-18s to Poland is almost serendipitous. Earlier this month, Stephen Harper received a long awaited “options analysis” from the Royal Canadian Air Force concerning the possible replacements for those jets.
Soon, the Prime Minister will have to decide whether to push ahead with the purchase of F-35s, or hold a competition involving alternative aircraft.
All the alternatives — the Boeing Super Hornet, Eurofighter Typhoon, and Dassault Rafale — are designed first and foremost for dogfighting with other fighter jets.
The F-35, in contrast, is a compromise aircraft that stems from the Pentagon’s desire to procure a single model for the Air Force, Navy and Marines: an unachievable aircraft that would land vertically, evade radar detection, conduct ground attacks, and still hold its own in aerial combat.
Instead, all three versions of the F-35 are oversized, overweight, underpowered — and still under development.
rest at link http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/04/28/michael-byers-thank-goodness-for-the-cf-18s/
Canadians are lucky to still have fighter jets that can go toe-to-toe with Russian MiGs and Sukhois. The fast and manoeuvrable CF-18s were built during the Cold War specifically for aerial combat.
The F-35s that Canada is considering purchasing, however, are designed for a very different mission: evading air defences during the first wave of “shock-and-awe” attacks on the command sites, radar bases and anti-aircraft missiles of “rogue states” such as Iraq, Libya, Syria and Iran.
The recent decision to deploy six CF-18s to Poland is almost serendipitous. Earlier this month, Stephen Harper received a long awaited “options analysis” from the Royal Canadian Air Force concerning the possible replacements for those jets.
Soon, the Prime Minister will have to decide whether to push ahead with the purchase of F-35s, or hold a competition involving alternative aircraft.
All the alternatives — the Boeing Super Hornet, Eurofighter Typhoon, and Dassault Rafale — are designed first and foremost for dogfighting with other fighter jets.
The F-35, in contrast, is a compromise aircraft that stems from the Pentagon’s desire to procure a single model for the Air Force, Navy and Marines: an unachievable aircraft that would land vertically, evade radar detection, conduct ground attacks, and still hold its own in aerial combat.
Instead, all three versions of the F-35 are oversized, overweight, underpowered — and still under development.
rest at link http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/04/28/michael-byers-thank-goodness-for-the-cf-18s/
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Colin P said:
Are we really supposed to take this seriously? There are 3 platforms realistically made specifically for a2a engagements; the Eagle, the Raptor, and the Typhoon. Every other design has been multi role from the start, except for the Viper which is now showing its versatility in the a2g arena after starting out as a low cost day fighter.
One day someone will actually do some homework and research what they are talking about...until that day...I will continue to do this... :
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If below is to be believed than the stealth part of needing this jet is over rated.......
New U.S. Stealth Jet Can’t Hide From Russian Radar
America’s gazillion-dollar Joint Strike Fighter is supposed to go virtually unseen when flying over enemy turf. But that’s not how things are working out.The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter—the jet that the Pentagon is counting on to be the stealthy future of its tactical aircraft—is having all sorts of shortcomings. But the most serious may be that the JSF is not, in fact, stealthy in the eyes of a growing number of Russian and Chinese radars. Nor is it particularly good at jamming enemy radar. Which means the Defense Department is committing hundreds of billions of dollars to a fighter that will need the help of specialized jamming aircraft that protect non-stealthy—“radar-shiny,” as some insiders call them—aircraft today.
More at link
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/28/new-u-s-stealth-jet-can-t-hide-from-russian-radar.html
New U.S. Stealth Jet Can’t Hide From Russian Radar
America’s gazillion-dollar Joint Strike Fighter is supposed to go virtually unseen when flying over enemy turf. But that’s not how things are working out.The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter—the jet that the Pentagon is counting on to be the stealthy future of its tactical aircraft—is having all sorts of shortcomings. But the most serious may be that the JSF is not, in fact, stealthy in the eyes of a growing number of Russian and Chinese radars. Nor is it particularly good at jamming enemy radar. Which means the Defense Department is committing hundreds of billions of dollars to a fighter that will need the help of specialized jamming aircraft that protect non-stealthy—“radar-shiny,” as some insiders call them—aircraft today.
More at link
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/28/new-u-s-stealth-jet-can-t-hide-from-russian-radar.html
Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
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If you can convince the other side not to pursue a technology that you can't match, by claiming you can already match it, then you have won 1/2 the battle, Sun Tzu would be pleased. 8)
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Bird_Gunner45 said:
Again...how is this news? They developed the Raven, the Prowler, and the Growler to protect existing fleets...and I'm quite certain the planes they were protecting, including Eagles, Tomcats, Vipers, and others, surely cost in the hundreds of billions of dollars.
Again.... :
Jarnhamar
Army.ca Myth
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Just to wrap my head around this. The F35 is only kind of stealthy and can be seen by Chinese and Russian radar and this do it all aircraft it will need another aircraft to help it survive?
Does it at least have good firepower and good range?
Does it at least have good firepower and good range?
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ObedientiaZelum said:
Fixed that for you.
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Stealth is not absolute. Regardless of the design, you'll always be more or less visible in a radar band or another.
Whether a weapon solution can be derived from a track or not is another matter. Seeing is one thing. Shooting is something else...
Whether a weapon solution can be derived from a track or not is another matter. Seeing is one thing. Shooting is something else...
OldSolduer
Army.ca Relic
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SupersonicMax said:
From what I can gather its the size of the radar signature, along with tactics (ie flying the thing) that will enable a "stealth" aircraft to get much closer to a target than a conventional aircraft.....am I basically correct here?
