Engineers are Combat Arms (again) (Split from somewhere else)

[geo]

Aaargh.... 

Engineers IS a combat arms AND a force multiplier.

if you dissagree.... try to cope without us 

 

[Shamrock]

No, engineers are combat support.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

No, engineers are combat support.

Wrong Engineers are Combat Arms. Combat Arms


These are CS

 

[Shamrock]

Interesting.  So where does recce fit into all this? 

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Interesting.  So where does recce fit into all this? 

Combat Support  ;D

 

[hunterphfr]

When I was in 1st battallion PPCLI mid to late 90s there was 1 female. I'll leave it at that, why rehash old threads.

 

[Shamrock]

So you DO know what a TO&E chart looks like.  Which row do engineers go on?

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Recce in my Inf Bn is in the Combat Support Coy.

 

[gaspasser]

Wrong Engineers are Combat Arms. Combat Arms


These are CS

Strange link.  I've always been told that MSEOps and other support trades in the field ARE Combat Service Support!  We learn and do close with and destroy the enemy.  Or did I waste my QL5?  Try telling any logistics tradesperson in a SVC BN that they are not CSS!  Hope you like walking!
rant off...

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Strange link.  I've always been told that MSEOps and other support trades in the field ARE Combat Service Support!  We learn and do close with and destroy the enemy.  Or did I waste my QL5?  Try telling any logistics tradesperson in a SVC BN that they are not CSS!  Hope you like walking!
rant off...

Why because I didn't add CSS?

So here you go CSS or as called here SSA  ;D

 

[geo]

Heh... you want to get an infanteer's goat.... ask him the order of precedence and where the infantry fits... like - who preceeds them...

Artillery, Armoured, Engineers and then Infantry!

 

[dapaterson]

Heh... you want to get an infanteer's goat.... ask him the order of precedence and where the infantry fits... like - who preceeds them...

Artillery, Armoured, Engineers and then Infantry!

Actually, it's Horse Artillery, Armoured, Artillery, Engineers and then Infantry.  Since Reserve Artillery units are RCA and not RCHA, they fall in behind the Armoured.

 

[Shamrock]

What's the significance of the order of precedence?

 

[geo]

pecking order.....

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I never realized that Engineers where ever considered anything but Combat Arms, clearly someone had to much time on their hands to think otherwise.

 

[sigpig]

I never realized that Engineers where ever considered anything but Combat Arms, clearly someone had to much time on their hands to think otherwise.

Back when I started learning about such definitions, in the early 80's, the following definitions were in effect:

Combat Arms - Armour, Infantry, Artillery

Combat Support - Signals, Engineers, Tac Hel

Combat Service Support - The Rest (like MaryAnne and the Professor  )


I take it the definitions have changed since then? More than once?

 

[McG]

I take it the definitions have changed since then? More than once?

Combat Arms - Armour, Infantry, Artillery, Combat Engineer

Combat Support - Signals, MP, Tac Hel

Combat Service Support - The Rest

(Note: in the US, Arty & Engr are Cbt Sp)

 

[392]

I take it the definitions have changed since then? More than once?

IIRC, we changed back to the Combat Arms in the early 90's...

 

[ArmyRick]

In most NATO nations arty and cbt eng are considered combat support arms. I had an old army PAM (our army) that also listed the same.

Yes I know arty and cbt eng get muddy, dirty, wet, tired and miserable but like I said, most NATO countries they are a cbt support arm.

I don't know why canada decided to be different.

I can say this, Arty and cbt eng are NOT maneuver units...

 

[Shamrock]

The UK also has the audacity to place its engineers in the combat support role.

I'm pretty sure it's only Canada that does this.  And, as Rick said, it's not that combat support doesn't get bloody and muddy.