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Electoral Reform (Senate, Commons, & Gov Gen)

What do you want to see?


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Disregarding the invidious slights to the Oldenburg clan (and we used to have nice pointy helmets - the Met still wears them sans pickel):

Setting that aside - what Mr. Ibbitson fails to recognise is that if the rural communities fail then there wiill only be "spaces" between his glorious "places".  Canada would quickly become 3-10 disparate islands with a whole bunch of Afghanistan in between.  The cost to maintain the Praire Village (Winnipeg-Calgary-Admonchuk Triangle), Northern Ont, Interior BC, The Territories, Lac St Jean, and most of the Maritimes is the price that Ibbitson pays to maintain the fiction that is Canada.  Consider it the Canadian version of the price of Empire.

Now if he wants to describe a set of laws that only apply to TOMOVA and leaves the rest of the land in peace he is welcome to do so.  The mechanism exists.  It is known as the By-Law.  He is quite welcome to suggest, implement and pay for the cost of said implementation out of his own municipal taxes - And if that includes Check Stops at the city limits - AKA Customs stations - so be it.
 
Actually, Canada will probably become a Republic sometime in the mid century through demographic forces.

Short version of the argument: while Canada erodes with a very sub replacement birthrate, the United States is continuing to expand, with the population expected to be between 500 and 550 million. At the same time, Canada will be suffering acute labour shortages due to the demographic "bust" of the 2020's.

Large numbers of Americans can be expected to immigrate to Canada seeking the higher pay employers will be forced to offer to get workers, and they will also import their values. As they become more numerous and politically active, they will become the driving force behind many social and institutional changes.

Remember too that it is the "Red State" Americans who have large families, not "Blue State" Americans, and the generations leading up to 2050 will have seen Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid go bankrupt (along with many US municipalities and even some States like California, Michigan and New York). Come to think of it, most of us will be around to see it happen (some estimates put the entitlement programs into net deficit as soon as 2016), so there will be at least two generations of Americans who will not be disposed towards unsustainable entitlements, and certainly will work hard to see these things do not happen in their new home.

"Oh say can you see...."
 
Being a smart alec again, this will mean we will finally have some good Tex-Mex restaurants in Canada.

What year is it estimated that Hispanics will reach the 50% of the population of the USA??

In Texas, it is not unusual to see families of all stripes with 3 or more children.

Very interesting post Thucydides and Kirkhill.
 
Tango2Bravo said:
Toronto has the Brass Rail. Can't be all bad.
Toronto also has the Village Idiot Pub, which I find coincidentally close to the Provincial Legislature. 

[/thread derail]


...oh, and St Louis Wings, south of Eglinton, is fine....when Connie's working  :nod:
 
Tango2Bravo said:
Toronto has the Brass Rail. Can't be all bad.

<contributing to the train wreck JM started>

Yes, indeed!

How I remember the trips from Camp Borden - ah, the good old RCSofI - and back (hazy, that part) to/from the big smoke and the Brass Rail and the Brown Derby and so on.

There were others, but I'm too old to recall.
 
[Continuing derail]

How to embarrass any VanDoo:

"Remember that time at L'Entre Nous?"

Sort of like the Brass Rail, but less classy, with a wider array of ways for troops to spend their pay.

And (at least 20 years ago) they would cash Government of Canada cheques north of $1000...
 
<drags the thread, kicking and screaming, back towards the topic>

This column, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act from today’s Globe and Mail, puts things in perspective:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/city-slickers-and-the-legend-of-canada-as-an-urban-nation/article1356147/
City slickers and the legend of Canada as an urban nation

Roy MacGregor

Monday, Nov. 09, 2009

It is the ultimate urban myth.

And this newspaper is as guilty as any when it comes to spreading that myth.

But there it was again late last week, published as if fact: "Eighty per cent of us live in cities." It is a claim that - in various forms - appears regularly in newspapers and in broadcast commentary across the country, an absurdity as hard to kill as the notion that porcupines shoot quills or that astronaut Neil Armstrong took his legendary "one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind" in Sudbury.

It is not even remotely true that four out of five Canadians live in what any of us would actually consider a "city," yet so strong is the belief in this that it has marginalized even more so those who consider themselves "rural." If they amount to only one in five, they can be virtually dismissed so far as national debate on public policy goes. This particular reference was to last week's vote in the House of Commons to approve in principle a private member's bill to shut down the controversial long-gun registry.

But that is hardly the only time the bogus "80 per cent of us live in cities" comes up and has an innuendo effect that is usually unfair.

If "rural" Canadians - the so-called one in five who live in the boonies - are against gun control, then they must be knuckle-dragging rednecks who like to ride around with their .303s hanging in the back window of the pickup.

If they are against, say, wind turbines, then they must be a bunch of NIMBY reactionaries who think a carbon footprint isn't worth leaving unless you stomp your feet.

If they are against the closing down of local television outlets and signals they might pick up, then they are simply techno-dinosaurs who think TV hockey is a game played in driving snowstorms with 10 men a side.

This idea that 80 per cent of Canadians live in cities - the other 20 per cent being yokels - comes courtesy of Statistics Canada and a non-thinking media.

StatsCan, which for reasons even many of its employees puzzle over, considers an "urban" centre a defined area with 1,000 or more population. That has the effect of deeming little places like Arnold's Cove, Nfld., and Barry's Bay, Ont., "urban." The media, then, substitutes "city" for "urban" (why not?) and we end up with this continuing misread of the country.

"I've heckled and berated Statistics Canada on this," says Tony Clement, the member for "rural" Parry Sound-Muskoka and one who voted for last week's bill.

"They don't like to change their definitions because it makes it difficult to make comparisons with past statistics. But this has a big impact on our public-policy debate when all urban areas are based on some 1903 definition." Actually, it's worse than that. Though StatsCan often tweaks the density requirements, the notion of 1,000 people being an "urban" centre goes all the way back to Confederation - when it was fair to say a town of 1,000 people was substantial.

If the cutoff were 100,000, then Canada would be considered roughly half urban and half rural. The population is clearly more in cities, and it can be fairly argued that city voters get shortchanged when it comes to the value of their vote, but that is another point, not this one.
This one is merely that a wrong-headed "fact" - four out of five Canadians are city dwellers - has the effect of stereotyping, usually unfairly, those who do not live in large centres.

Keith Martin is the member of Parliament for Esquimalt - Juan de Fuca, as well as a Liberal. He is such a "redneck" that this spring he introduced his own private member's bill in the House of Commons to decriminalize simple possession of marijuana. He is also a physician and has a long track record of humanitarian work in the Third World. Yet he, too, voted for the bill that suspended the long-gun registry.

"I had one woman say to me, 'You should be ashamed of yourself - you're a physician!'" says Martin. "Well, I've seen people shot. I've been helpless to save them. I have a vested interested in making sure people don't get shot and killed by guns.

"I know this is one of those issues where the attitude is 'If you're not with us, you're against us' and the presumption is that I'm against any gun control. Well, that just isn't so. I voted to send it to committee to see if there might be more effective ways of spending this money." Martin, like Clement, thinks the simple-minded media interpretation of urban/rural needs to be addressed.

"It's an artificial divide," he says, "and it preys on old mythologies of people in rural areas being hewers of wood and drawers of water, whereas 'urban' people are more sophisticated and higher educated.

"Those stereotypes are long gone. But the problem in Canada is that we focus more on the things that divide us than those things that bring us together." Is anyone at Statistics Canada listening?

The Elections Canada web site is a good place to see what McGregor is saying. Look at these maps and pay attention to the scales at the bottom of each:

35068.gif

This is a real urban riding – hundreds of thousands of people concentrated in a small area.

35091.gif

This, still in Ontario, is a real rural riding – several tens of thousands of people scattered over vast areas.

47001.gif

Here’s another rural riding, with the town of Unity which I mentioned above.

12002.gif

Here is a mixed riding – several small towns scattered across real rural areas.

59027.gif

And here is one of those fast growing suburban ridings: hundreds of thousands iof people concentrated in a relatively small area but they have different vital interests than do the people who are concentrated in the real urban ridings in downtown Vancouver, Calgary, Winnipeg, Toronto, Montreal and Halifax.


 
Interesting bit of work by Mr McGregor. Thanks for posting it, Edward, along with the maps. A good number of years ago I discovered that there were only 28 centres in Canada with a population greater than 100,000. That probably has grown, both by natural increase and by amalgamations.

I live in North Grenville, Ontario which has a population of about 13,000. It therefore probably qualifies as urban, although it measures roughly 20 km by 20 km, includes three or four towns - the largest of which has a population of 3500 - 4000 - and prides itself on its rural roots. If North Grenville is typical, then Statistics Canada is talking through its butt.

Which leads to the classic "so what?" Perhaps there is another way of distinguishing between city and others, perhaps by population density. Even that might be skewed in Ottawa (and Timmins) which covers a very large geographic area compared to other places of equal population. Does it matter? Is there a difference in attitudes and ways of life? Probably, and that is a good thing, as the life styles are adapted to the local conditions. 
 
Consider my third map, above - the one that has Unity in it. It also has one major urban centre: North Battleford (pop 14,000). Is North Battleford really an urban place like Parkdale High Park (first map) or Ottawa Centre, where I live? Not on your nellie!

Unity, SK, which is a lovely little town - not just because my roots are there, has a population of about 2,500. Does anyone with the brains the gods gave to green peppers thinks Unity belongs in the same designation as Halifax?

I suspect that we are a moderately urban nation, with very, very many suburban and small town centres and a substantial rural population, too.
 
E.R. Campbell said:
Consider my third map, above - the one that has Unity in it. It also has one major urban centre: North Battleford (pop 14,000). Is North Battleford really an urban place like Parkdale High Park (first map) or Ottawa Centre, where I live? Not on your nellie!

You missed one; you forgot Lloydminister (pop. 24,000+) which sits on the SK-AB border and has 8,000+ plus people on the Sask side. However, Lloyd (as the locals call it) is incorporated as a single city, not two cities with the same name, so I'm not sure if its considered an Alberta or Saskatchewan city? Or may be its in some prairie limbo?

An even better example is the new "city" of Meadow Lake* which just became the newest city in SK (to be a city in SK you must have a pop over 5,000).  Now according to Statscan Meadow Lake (or just Meadow) is an "urban" entity but as anyone who has ever visited the place would never considered it to be urban in the sense that Statscan or Ibbitson envision.

The problem with commentators like Ibbitson is that they never get out of that TO-Ottawa-Montreal area and have no ideal of the rest of the country if like.

* Meadow Lake is located in the Misssinippi- Churchill River electoral district. And yes, E.R., I'm SK born, 75 or so miles north of where you are from, except my town is so small its not even on the electoral map!
 
Kirkhill's definition of urban - any body of humans that who generate smog.  If you can't see a cloud over your community from exhausts then you are probably not sufficiently "densified" to qualify as a top of the charts urban environment.  With the exception of certain resource extraction communities that seems to require, from personal observation a population upwards of 500,000 people.

From Stats Canada that would limit Urban Canada to the following cities:
Quebec, Montreal, Ottawa-Gatineau, Toronto, Winnipeg, Calgary, Edmonton and Vancouver.

They have a combined population of 15.6 million bodies in their metro areas including suburbs and exurbs or roughly half of Canada's 33 million residents - and that assumes that all of those 15.6 million have urban sensibilities..... On the other hand the civil servants of Regina are decidedly Urbane.
 
The issue smacks of the "group rights" mentality that infects most Socialist/Leftist/Progressive political thinking. Just because people live in urban rideings does not mean they have similar values (just like union menbers are rarely enamoured of the policy proposals of the NDP).

Torontonians are not like Calgarians, and even Calgarians and Edmontonians have different values and interests (note that Edmonton was a Liberal stronghold in the West throughout the 1990's, while Cargary was enthusiastically Reform minded).

The essential issue is the number of voters being represented per riding, and the fact that we would have to either undo the BNA and Constitution acts or develop unwieldy 800 member+ parliaments to ensure relatively equal representation; both proposals too toxic for serious consideration.
 
Here, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act from today’s Globe and Mail is a useful reminder from Jeffrey Simpson that Prime Minister Harper’s options are limited on the Senate reform front:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/senate-reform-an-altered-state-of-affairs/article1422994/
my emphasis added
Senate reform: an altered state of affairs?
The Supreme Court has already said Ottawa is in no position to try anything unilaterally

Jeffrey Simpson

Published on Friday, Jan. 08, 2010

So here we go again, apparently: another round of pondering Senate reform, a subject that animates a few Canadians and bores the rest.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper, harkening back to his former Reform Party days, wants to alter the Senate. The precise details of his true intentions aren't known, but there is talk of an elected Senate, or a limitation of the terms of senatorial appointments.

If he can't get reform, the Prime Minister has warned, he might seek abolition of the Senate, an outcome already supported by the federal NDP and premiers of a handful of provinces.

Go right ahead, gentlemen. Climb into the sandbox of Senate reform and start playing. But before doing so, pause and read at least a summary of a Supreme Court of Canada ruling of 1979 that will complicate every game you might wish to play.

In that ruling, on a reference from Pierre Trudeau's government, the court said 9-0 that Ottawa could unilaterally do almost nothing to the Senate. In particular, Ottawa could not unilaterally abolish the Senate, change the powers of the Senate, alter the number of senators from each province or fiddle with the method of senators.

The Trudeau government had proposed in 1978 a massive change to the Senate, including the selection of members by Ottawa, provincial legislatures and “some other body or bodies.” The change envisaged the possibility of electing senators. Elections, ruled the court, would “involve a radical change in the nature of one of the component parts of Parliament.” Such a change could not be implemented unilaterally by Ottawa, since it would “affect a fundamental feature of that body.”

So all those thinking of entering the Senate reform sandbox should therefore be aware that Ottawa can do very little unilaterally with the Senate, at least not the way the Supreme Court has interpreted the Constitution.

The Court essentially saw the Senate as an integral part of the federal system, because senators reflect regional interests in the Parliament of Canada. As such, the federal system cannot be changed by one level of government alone, even if the Senate is part of what is known as the “federal” government that resides largely in Ottawa.

So forget unilateral federal action. If tried, the action would be taken to court. Unless today's Supreme Court overturned a previous unanimous judgment, the action would be unconstitutional.

What about some federal-provincial agreement? In theory, maybe, but just try to secure such an outcome. There's a reason, after all, why every federation or confederation in the world has an upper house of some kind: to offer a regional offset against the representation-by-population of the lower house.

Provinces that want abolition are in a minority and will remain there, since why would the smaller provinces want to yield up an institution in which they are overrepresented? The same goes for Quebec – it won't give up anything in which its interests are potentially defended. The same also goes for diehard defenders of a Triple-E Senate – elected, equal and effective. They won't give up their dream and settle for abolition.

What about electing senators? Ottawa cannot implement this alone, the court said in 1979, but maybe provinces could hold elections and Ottawa could appoint the winners. That might be a possible innovation, since the federal government would not be unilaterally changing the rules of the game. But unless every province agreed to such a change, the Senate would have various tiers of members, some elected, some appointed. (On the other hand, this is how the United States got an elected Senate. Oregon first insisted on electing senators. Other states eventually followed suit.)

But do provincial governments really want elected senators? Some publicly do; others privately do not. The untidy fact is that many premiers want to be the ones to speak for their provinces on the national stage, instead of a bunch of provincially elected senators. Think of the United States. Which Canadian premier would want his role on the national stage to shrivel to that of a governor?

Put the idea of electing senators on the table. Then wait for a second or two before Quebec (and other provinces) comes along with a list of other constitutional demands. What would begin as a one-issue change would quickly become a multi-headed constitutional hydra.

And we all know where that has led, and would certainly lead in the future: constitutional agony, acrimony and deadlock. Beware, therefore, all ye who think about the temptations of the sandbox.


Essentially, as I have said, more than once, going back a long time, there is a way to do most of what Harper wants to do, within the constraints of the Supremes’ ’79 ruling:

1. The PM writes two letters:

a. The first to each provincial premier telling him/her than he intends, by convention, to limit the way he appoints senators. He will, effective whenever, appoint to the Senate of Canada only those who –

(1) Are constitutionally qualified (§23 of the BNA Act),

(2) Are elected by their province, usually in senatorial elections that are held in conjunction with a provincial general election and by a system that, broadly, reflects the outcome of that provincial general election, and

(3) Present him with a signed letter of resignation - effective the date of the next provincial general election, before being appointed, and

b. The second to each serving senator, asking for a signed letter of resignation, effective the date of the next provincial general election; and

2. The PM needs to explain – publicly - that he will not let provinces go unrepresented in the Senate but he will still demand, of those he appoints for his own, political, reasons, the same letter of resignation – thus, [de facto ensuring that senators are not appointed for life.

It will take a long time to achieve a fully elected Senate – not all serving senators will want to resign, some will hang on, in their sinecures, for 20 years or so but, eventually, appointed senators will understand that they are second class citizens compared to their elected counterparts and those who don’t bump into the age limit will resign out of frustration. Not all provinces will, initially, go along – but the hold outs will, eventually, understand that despite having enough senators they have ‘second class’ (unelected) representation and they, too, will sign on.

Elected senators will, with public support, make themselves effective because they will be willing to challenge the will of the elected HoC – putting provincial interests, including Quebec’s interests, into play and giving the overrepresented “Old Canada” (everything East of the Ottawa River) even more undue influence in the parliament of Canada.

An elected Senate will complicate life for the PM – even a majority government (in the HoC) may not be able to command the loyalty of the Senate. Even worse, who is to say that a BC Liberal senator will join the federal Liberal caucus – many BC Liberals are, in fact, Conservatives. The Saskatchewan Party Senators may, well, caucus with the federal Tories and so on.

But it – Senate reform – can be done, within the limits imposed by the SCC, and Senate reform might, sooner rather than later, lead to constitutional convention that will, finally, deal with several aspects of the old (1867 thru 1982), rickety Constitution of Canada.

 
Edward:

I've favoured a similar system, with senators selected from provincial party lists based on proportion of popular vote in the province - that is, they are senators at large for the province as a whole; for continuity, perhaps electing half in each provincial election - that is, a senate term would be two election cycles within the province.

In a better world, we'd also see some reshuffling of seats - I'd like a senate of 112: 5 seats per province, 2 per territory, plus the remaining 56 divided by population among the provinces, re-allocated three years after the census...
 
Here, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act from today’s Globe and Mail, is another suggestion re: how to accomplish senate reform:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/fixing-the-red-chamber-step-by-step/article1465044/
Fixing the Red Chamber, step by step
Senate reform requires a delicate dance, but Stephen Harper still has a constitutional trump card to play

Tom Flanagan

Friday, Feb. 12, 2010

Senate reform is now within sight, although it will take several steps to get there. Here's a road map to the destination.

By appointing five new senators, Prime Minister Stephen Harper has created a plurality of 51 Conservative senators against 49 Liberals, with five independents holding the balance of power. Prorogation means that Senate committees will be reappointed with Conservative majorities. Now, when the two reform bills are reintroduced – one to limit senatorial terms to eight years, the other to provide for consultative elections – the government doesn't have to worry about the bills being held up in committees.

Passage of these bills in the Senate is still not guaranteed, however – it will depend on who shows up to vote and how the five independent senators decide. But Mr. Harper has a trump card if he wants to use it. Under Section 26 of the Constitution Act, 1867, he can request that the Queen appoint four or eight additional senators pledged to support Senate reform. That's how Brian Mulroney secured passage of the GST in 1990.

Invoking Section 26 would be risky, because the opposition would paint it as another tricky power play. But it would also showcase Mr. Harper at his strategic best – using power politics not just to confound the opposition but to democratize the Canadian Constitution.

Once out of the Senate, the reform bills should be introduced into the House of Commons as confidence measures, thereby putting the Liberals to the test. Michael Ignatieff says he supports limiting senators' terms to 12 years, rather than the eight years suggested by Mr. Harper. I think 12 years is too long and eight years is about right, but if Mr. Harper is in a blue-sweater mood, he might offer to split the difference at 10. In any case, the Liberals can't be expected to vote for the election of senators because, in their view, that change requires a constitutional amendment.

The Liberals, therefore, will dislike one and perhaps both reform bills. But will they force an election by defeating the bills if they are presented as confidence measures? Probably not, because Mr. Ignatieff has been insisting that he doesn't want an election. Too bad, because if the Liberals did defeat one or both bills, we would be catapulted into an election that was actually about something, like the 1988 election that became a virtual referendum on free trade.

It would be good for the issue of Senate reform to have it front and centre in an election campaign. An elected Senate will lead to important changes in Canadian politics, so the best thing would be to build public support for it by debating it in an election, as happened with free trade.

When the Liberals consider the potential polarization, however, they are unlikely to force an election. The Conservatives would be the only party in favour of Senate reform, while the opposition parties would divide the anti-reform vote. Once again, the Conservatives could ride a “divide and conquer” strategy into office, even if public support for Senate reform was only a plurality rather than a majority, as was the case with free trade.

Rather than put their necks in a noose, the Liberals may offer to support the bills, or at least abstain, if the government inserts a clause referring them to the Supreme Court for an advisory opinion before they take effect. There is a serious argument that a changeover to an elected Senate would be constitutional in character and thus require a constitutional amendment rather than ordinary legislation. That is what the Liberals, as well as pundits such as The Globe's Jeffrey Simpson, have been saying for several years in opposition to Senate reform.

But a direct reference by the federal Minister of Justice to the Supreme Court is a bad idea because it suggests that the government harbours doubts about its own legislation. It would be better to pass the two bills and let them be challenged by dissident provinces, which can refer them to their own courts of appeal. The Supreme Court can do its work better after letting several provincial courts of appeal thrash through the issues.

I hope the government keeps forging ahead. At worst, we'll get an authoritative judicial opinion about the feasibility of Senate reform through legislation; at best, we might get a reformed Senate.

Tom Flanagan is professor of political science at the University of Calgary and a former Conservative campaign manager.

I agree with Prof. Flanagan that the government should not refer this to the Supremes – let (a) province(s) make the challenge. I also agree with the government that the senate, itself, should introduce a bill to limit senatorial terms but I do not agree that the senate (or the HoC) should try to force elections through legislation. I think my proposal – two letters, etc – is better because it establishes a constitutional convention when the prim minister limits his own power and, in the long run, that is likely to be much more effective that any legislation and much tougher to challenge or change.
 
Link Byfield, former editor and publisher of the now defunct but resolutely small ‘c’ conservative Alberta Report, is on the right track in this column reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act from today’s Toronto Star:

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/article/764818--let-provincial-voters-elect-senators
Let provincial voters elect senators
Published On Tue Feb 16 2010

Link Byfield

Prime Minister Stephen Harper rewarded five lucky Canadians two weeks ago with appointments to the Senate, the most lucrative "taskless thanks" our nation bestows for reliable party service.

At $130,000 a year plus benefits, for working as much or as little as you like until age 75, it's like winning the lottery.

However, Harper's ongoing determination to control Parliament's upper house prompts a very sensible question. Which does he want: to control the Senate or to reform it? Are not these two objectives in conflict?

If by getting control he succeeds in putting future Senate seats up for democratic grabs, he and/or his successors will probably fall right back into the trap Harper has been in since 2006, with a Liberal majority blockade in the upper house.

Indeed, if an opposing party controls an elected upper house, we could end up with an even worse danger of Senate obstruction than the one Harper has been coping with for four years. The 1867 Constitution gives our Senate the same powers as the House of Commons, and an elected Senate majority would use them far more freely than the unelected ones have in the past.

This is such an obvious flaw in the Harper position it suggests the man is either foolish or has something else in mind. And as we know he is not the first, we should consider the second.

Maybe he is using the threat of federal Senate elections to push the provinces into holding provincial Senate elections instead. He has certainly intimated as much.

If we put aside the Senate as it has existed in the past, and start thinking about the good it could do if it were suitably reconstituted over the next decade or so, interesting possibilities emerge.

Most important, suppose future senators were elected from provincial parties in provincially mandated elections. Harper has said he finds this perfectly acceptable, and has appointed the only such candidate available (Bert Brown from Alberta).

Now, bearing in mind that there is only tenuous cooperation between provincial and federal parties (just ask Dalton McGuinty and Michael Ignatieff) there is no partisan imperative built into a provincially elected Senate to obstruct and embarrass the government. We would no longer see the upper house whipped from the front bench of the lower house as we always have, nor would the business of the Senate be tailored to national party election strategies.

Instead of gridlock, we would see – for the first time – genuine negotiation between the executive and a Parliament whose upper half was actually independent; as indeed our founders hoped the Senate would be. We would see provincial and regional priorities influencing national decisions in Parliament. Outside Quebec, national parties can't even talk about regional interests, let alone campaign for them, for fear of losing seats in other regions. A provincially elected Senate would add a badly missing dimension to national deliberations.

We seem to have forgotten that the main purpose conceived for the Senate was to represent provincial rights and interests in Parliament. If you read the Quebec resolutions and the Constitution Act 1867, you will find no other purpose given.

Then too, a provincially elected upper house could hold the government to account on national issues far more reliably than a partisan Senate controlled by the Prime Minister and the leader of the opposition. It's interesting but not surprising that the sponsorship scandal was first aired in a Liberal-dominated Senate and then quietly forgotten.

Best of all, the provincial route to Senate elections requires no national or constitutional change. Alberta is already doing it, and Saskatchewan and Manitoba are considering it. As other provinces begin, the process becomes politically impossible for prime ministers to ignore. Unless, for some unforeseen reason, it isn't working. We then return very easily to the present system, little though anyone respects it.

Such a simple and natural evolution of our parliamentary system is surely worth trying.

Link Byfield is a freelance writer in Edmonton and a senator-elect nominee for Alberta.www.ElectOurSenate.ca

Indeed, senators should be elected by the provinces, during each provincial general election – on some sort of proportional representation system that reflects the (rough) split of the provincial vote.

That means (were such a system in place today) we would have PQ senators – who would, most likely, caucus with the BQ, and NDP senators who would caucus with the NDP. We would also have BC and Québec Liberals, who might not (all) caucus with the federal Liberals and we will have Saskatchewan Party senators who would, likely, caucus with the Conservatives. It would make life more complicated for the prime minister and it might just rejuvenate democracy in this sad, tired country.
 
Now that we're running such massive deficits, I got to thinking "What do we really need, and what can be dropped?"

Granted, we are still financially better off than most countries in the world, but that doesn't mean we can't still make some fundamental changes that would get us in the black faster and when we get there surge into big-time surplus territory.

There are 105 of them, and their requirements at work would almost be a joke if it wasn't such an abysmal waste of our money.  Everyone knows the story, they basically aren't accountable to go to work, and they aren't expected to move the yard sticks down the field.  I'm not saying they have no purpose at all, but in a time of financial hardship can they really be justified anymore? 

In terms of savings, the cost of having them is astronomically more than just their salaries.  If it were just a matter of (for argument's sake) $100,000 year x 105 of them it would be over $10 million per year alone, but that cost is a fraction of the true cost for them in terms of expenses, travel, staff, and infrastructure to keep the whole institution up and running.

By no means am I writing this in the context of "tell me how right I am", but I'd actually like to discuss it.  I would be more than willing to admit that I'm wrong if the majority believes the Senate serves enough of a purpose to be kept.

I just can't find the justification, though.  If we had more money than we could spend as a country then sure, but we don't.
 
I don't see it as a justifiable body.

If you're going to have a bicameral parliament, then do the "triple-E" thing that a particular party once talked about.

But there's no real need for a second house, let alone one with overpaid patronage appointments and questionable accountability for a job well-done.

Consolidate, pension off the ones we've got, and make a de jure unicameral parliament out of our de facto one.
 
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