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Dutch ships and designs and the possibilities for Canada

Well there's a push(and hope )from SAAB towards Polen and The Netherlands regarding the subs wich will replace the Walrus-class.  :nod:


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-10/saab-targets-submarine-sales-jump-as-russia-tensions-lift-demand
 
So there's a bit more news from ...............................The Netherlands  [:)

http://nos.nl/artikel/2181466-hennis-kan-verder-met-zoeken-naar-nieuwe-onderzeeboten.html

The link is in Dutch,but it's about the debate for the replacement for the Walrus-class subs.

In short Parliament agreed to replace the subs,only thing is that the reserved budget for replacement is too little,about 2.5 B,all know that about 3.5-4B is needed to replace the 4 Walrusses for 4 new ones. ;)
The prefered combo to bult these is Damen/Saab,but others will be asked too for information(DCNS,Thyssen,Navantia)

The specs or requirements for the new subs are:these are general.


De specificaties of eisen voor de nieuwe onderzeeboten                                                              -Specs/requirements
* Moeilijk op te sporen                                                                                                          -VeryHard/near impossible to detect 
* Goed bewapend voor echte oorlogsacties                                                                              -Armed for "real"war situations
* Wereldwijd verzamelen, analyseren en delen van inlichtingen                                                      -Globally deployable ,gathering,analyzing and sharing information                                                 
* Op langdurige geheime missie kunnen in vijandelijk gebied                                                          -Prolonged employability for secret missions in hostile terretory
* Speciale operaties met special forces langs een vijandelijke kust                                                -Spec OPS,delivering/retrieving Special Forces along hostile coasts
* Faciliteiten voor vrouwelijke militairen, Hennis noemt dat 'genderneutrale' onderzeeboten                -Gender Neutral(or fit for women aswell)


So this was the first step,hopefully Gathering momntum now.

gr,Walter
 
Colin P said:
This 1900 tons submerged correct?
Click to expand...

Colin,what do you mean 1900 tons submerged,are you talking about the A-26?yes they are about that weight.

For the new cass of Dutch subs,i think it will be around 3000 tons submerged.
 
Well here's a sketch off the new vMFF(replacement M-class),first an ASW ship,but can also do a bit of AAW and surface combat.










 
Chris Pook said:
Gotlands use Stirling engines, I believe.

The Germans are using Fuel Cells.  Both need oxygen right enough.  But the time endurance is measured in weeks.  I don't know about the distance endurance.  I am guessing that distance from one edge of the ice pack to the other might be a consideration.

Kind of an interesting article here.

http://www.hisutton.com/World%20survey%20of%20AIP%20submarines.html

On the subject of Canadian Opportunities Missed......

We have a company that is a world leader in submersible technology

http://www.ise.bc.ca/auv.html

We have a company building fuel cell vehicles

http://ballard.com/about-ballard/ballard-in-canada
Click to expand...


we let that ship sail a long time ago, almost got to go for a ride on one, but Transport Canada forbade them offering a trip as they didn't know how to classify the vessel. https://books.google.ca/books?id=9pkrAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA5&lpg=PA5&dq=tourist+sub+built+in+canada&source=bl&ots=SmIzdrWnZu&sig=jrXswndofxekcfqVmwjQKwj-jng&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiX0JPZzJDVAhXMxYMKHVk2BUMQ6AEISDAF#v=onepage&q=tourist%20sub%20built%20in%20canada&f=false
 
So it seems we've a Wiki page. [Xp  (Not by Damen or Government)

That means for the M-class replacements,and with what is known now,so can change(details/outfit)

Future Surface Combatants for the Royal Dutch Navy.(and Belgian Navy)

https://www.google.be/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjnud_JuqzVAhWEuBoKHfmqDMYQFghbMAk&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFuture_Surface_Combatant_(Koninklijke_Marine)&usg=AFQjCNFma72naegaEGRJ2fV92WtGim3RYA


ps,one of the things not mentioned in the wiki article,is a hull mounted sonar,wich will be there also.(see reply#44) and the OTO Melara WS 25mm Autocannon,is not corrcet either,will be the Oto Melara Marlin WS 30mm autocannon.
 
Colin P said:
Seems decently armed, they could build more and keep 1 or 2 in hot layup or refit
Click to expand...

Well to be honest ,we should build more,4 at least.
There's an option to build 4 max.for the Netherlands and 2 max for Belgium(let's hope the RNLN ,and the politicians,decide to use this option.
 
And now something completely different,a bit of fun.  ;D

Don't know how many of you seen this clip(it was from a satiric/humoristic prgramme on Sunday("Lubbach"),it's been out a while but still want to post it here.(clip is in English)

"The Netherlands second"(a reaction offcourse on the "America First"speech by Donald Trump.)


https://www.google.be/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi1nq6u1azVAhVL2xoKHcQdCiAQFgg3MAM&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.vpro.nl%2Fzondag-met-lubach%2Flees%2Fnieuws%2FThe-Netherlands-Second.html&usg=AFQjCNEKkDba0g51p1QFwNhYY6WGOxhS7w

or this link.

https://youtu.be/ELD2AwFN9Nc


have fun
 
For anyone who's interested,here's Saab's presentation on the A-26 and the possible variants.

There's a Oceanic Extended Range version(3000 tonns) wich is precisely "pointed" at what the Dutch Navy wants(1 question asks this and is confirmed.)Nice subs.

The seminar will be live-streamed on http://saab-seminar.creo.se/170831.

here 's the model range:(btw the "oceanic" variant is the normal A-26)

http://d1qka67o21nlgb.cloudfront.net/cache/assetslidethumb/49984-33986-1504157521.0.0.jpg

http://d1qka67o21nlgb.cloudfront.net/cache/assetslidethumb/49984-33985-1504157520.0.0.jpg

and the Vertical Launch option:

http://d1qka67o21nlgb.cloudfront.net/cache/assetslidethumb/49984-33984-1504157518.0.0.jpg

 
I was just reading the latest issue of CDR and they said Alion-Canada teamed up with DAMEN to supply Canada with the De Zeven Provincien Class ships. Alion is fairly unknown so it will be interesting if they are selected over the bigger names of the other bidders. I also wish Canada got 4x Karel Doorman JLSS ships :p Would have fulfilled the original JSS specs and 4 ship requirement. We could then ignore getting things like an amphibious assault ship because the 4 ships would have provided us with enough capability. Didn't know we had a shot to grab Walrus SSK's over the Oberons though, that would have been sweet! Though right now I am a huge fan of the Stirling AIP A26 SSK's.
 
serger989 said:
I was just reading the latest issue of CDR and they said Alion-Canada teamed up with DAMEN to supply Canada with the De Zeven Provincien Class ships. Alion is fairly unknown so it will be interesting if they are selected over the bigger names of the other bidders. I also wish Canada got 4x Karel Doorman JLSS ships :p Would have fulfilled the original JSS specs and 4 ship requirement. We could then ignore getting things like an amphibious assault ship because the 4 ships would have provided us with enough capability. Didn't know we had a shot to grab Walrus SSK's over the Oberons though, that would have been sweet! Though right now I am a huge fan of the Stirling AIP A26 SSK's.
Click to expand...

If so,Alion and Damen to supply new LCF's for Canada,they will probably be LCF(The De Zeven)2.0 or at least some adjustments( For example APAR 2.0,etc),since these ships are between 10 and 15 years old right now. ;)

It's been going on for so long for Canada,looking for replacements i mean.

Always hoped they would buy them(Canada),very capable ships,and 1 of the most beautiful to look at,know that's not important,but still. ;D

Well it looks like we're going to get those beauties(A-26 Oceanic Extended Range),but nothing is sure yet.(still hope tho)
 
Interesting comments on the radars on Wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Zeven_Provinci%C3%ABn-class_frigate
 
Colin P said:
Interesting comments on the radars on Wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Zeven_Provinci%C3%ABn-class_frigate
Click to expand...

What do you mean Colin,I-Band?(X-band offcourse),or do you mean something else?
 
Karel Doorman said:
If so,Alion and Damen to supply new LCF's for Canada,they will probably be LCF(The De Zeven)2.0 or at least some adjustments( For example APAR 2.0,etc),since these ships are between 10 and 15 years old right now. ;)

It's been going on for so long for Canada,looking for replacements i mean.

Always hoped they would buy them(Canada),very capable ships,and 1 of the most beautiful to look at,know that's not important,but still. ;D

Well it looks like we're going to get those beauties(A-26 Oceanic Extended Range),but nothing is sure yet.(still hope tho)
Click to expand...

The Alion-DAMEN bid was revealed at CANSEC 2017 to a rather lukewarm response because of Alion's lesser name recognition. Regardless they seemed to have a strong pitch with the LCF saying no fundamental changes had to be made. They appear to be on point in delivering exactly what Canada needs, a MOTS design that is proven. - This is all sourced from CDR

I personally think the FREMM is the nicest to look at, but the De Zeven is beautiful as well :p The A-26's would be awesome for Canada because of their now blue water capability. The Netherlands is going to grab A-26's though? That would be pretty sweet.
 
Karel Doorman said:
What do you mean Colin,I-Band?(X-band offcourse),or do you mean something else?
Click to expand...

That the AD radar struggled to pick up small surface or stationary targets until tweaked to lessen it's AD advantages.
 
Colin P said:
That the AD radar struggled to pick up small surface or stationary targets until tweaked to lessen it's AD advantages.
Click to expand...

Ah ok,yep strange,but OTOH the radar is primarily used/envisioned/developed(AAW) to detect "fast movers" at a significant distance(i believe 500 kms now),and as you said(and stated in the article) it was possible to remedy this.
 
serger989 said:
The Alion-DAMEN bid was revealed at CANSEC 2017 to a rather lukewarm response because of Alion's lesser name recognition. Regardless they seemed to have a strong pitch with the LCF saying no fundamental changes had to be made. They appear to be on point in delivering exactly what Canada needs, a MOTS design that is proven. - This is all sourced from CDR

I personally think the FREMM is the nicest to look at, but the De Zeven is beautiful as well :p The A-26's would be awesome for Canada because of their now blue water capability. The Netherlands is going to grab A-26's though? That would be pretty sweet.
Click to expand...

As said if the RNLN(and parliament offcourse) will choose the A-26,it will be the Oceanic Extended Range version,with maybe a couple of "Damen twist"and RNLN "twist(adjustments),also interesting for Canada.(Range wise)

See post #50 for the pictures/renderings.
 
serger989 said:
The Alion-DAMEN bid was revealed at CANSEC 2017 to a rather lukewarm response because of Alion's lesser name recognition. Regardless they seemed to have a strong pitch with the LCF saying no fundamental changes had to be made. They appear to be on point in delivering exactly what Canada needs, a MOTS design that is proven. - This is all sourced from CDR
Click to expand...

Not exactly correct and leads to a misunderstanding of the bids.  Though the gov't said they wanted a "proven design" to the press what they actually asked for was a "mature design".  As was explained to me this was somewhere on the line between napkin sketch of a ship to ship fully operational.  Hence why the Type 26 was allowed to compete.  The design is complete and the steel is being cut.  There is also the requirement to have Canadian requirements for the ship added.  This means that whatever ship we get won't quite be MOTS.  It's looking like these are in the MOTS+ category.  Mature design modified.
 
 
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