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Drug Testing For TF 1-07

Guns....
WRT the alcohol thing.... the CF has come down hard on people with alcohol related problems... Disciplinary & admin measures are in place to curb.  Also, limitation on number of beers allowed has been in place since our deployments in FRY. It isn't perfect but, our controls are better than what other countries in theatre apply.
 
Geo,

I know the policy when soldiers are deployed, its the off hours when at home base, when all this drug and alcohol is proned to happen.
I know DND has no control of what happens off base. My point is alcohol may factor in a person decision to try drugs. They seem to go hand in hand. I would not be far off the mark if the soldiers that were caught were asked if they were drinking at the time, 99% would say yes. I am not making excuses for these people, there is no excuse that will justify their actions. 

As I stated before, I find this all disgustion. CF policy on Drug Use spells out exactly what will happen to the individual who tests positive for drugs and the punishment that goes with it. 100% agreement. All soldiers are made aware of this policy and anyone caught deserve the punishment. I find it very difficult to comprehend the numbers that are floating around. I first thought that the test lab screwed up but it was not the case.

Its obvious to all I have a thing about alcohol, I work with people who have been injured from the use of alcohol or with people who were injured by people who were under the influence. Some of these people are younger than my kids. I have yet to have a client that was there for drug use.

However DND handles this mess I only hope all those caught are punished equally, Regular soldiers and Reserve soldiers alike. I know everyones feeling on this and I respect that. I am of the feeling that you don't cut off your arm if you prick your finger, you put a bandaid on it and put the arm back to work. 


 
Guns

Reading your post, you show that you have been out of the military environment for too long and do not have a true picture of what it is like over there today.

On another point, both the Drug Addict and the Alcholic will take care of their addiction where ever they may be, on the Line or in the Rear.  It doesn't matter to them.  Your arguements are weak.

You conception of the DND policy is also faulty and has swung to the extreme.  You inturn do as much harm.  In the past, I have found that if you want to be a "Reformed Alcoholic" in your attitudes and restrict alcohol because you have a problem, in turn treating Soldiers like children, then they will behave like children when they get the chance to have a few drinks.  If you treat them as "responsible adults" then they tend to behave like adults.
 
GUNS said:
Geo,
I know the policy when soldiers are deployed, its the off hours when at home base, when all this drug and alcohol is proned to happen.
I know DND has no control of what happens off base. My point is alcohol may factor in a person decision to try drugs. They seem to go hand in hand. I would not be far off the mark if the soldiers that were caught were asked if they were drinking at the time, 99% would say yes. I am not making excuses for these people, there is no excuse that will justify their actions. 

Guns,
within LFQA, I get to find out every morning, what happened in the last 24 hrs in our area.  SQ & police forces talk to the MPs, the units are notified and the units are required to act on things that happen off base... even off hours.

If the constabulary figures out you're military, the MPs are told as a matter of course.

If our troops have a problem, we have a problem... so let's get it fixed.
 
My comments about alcohol has nothing to do with the amount of alcohol one consumes, its about the results of drinking. On a weekly bases I deal with clients who are referred to the O/P T(Occupational/Physical Therapy) Department for treatment for injuries they received as the result of alcohol related accidents. I find it difficult to understand why people in their late teens and early 20's end up in this situation.

My time out of uniform does not mean I have loss touch with how the military is operating today. I have several family and friends still in the Forces. It is not my intent to do harm to the CF, as anyone who knows me would tell you, I speak highly of the CF and encourage those who listen to join. The situation with the TF is very unfortunate for the military. I am sure DND never expected in their wildest dreams that they would have such high numbers. I mentioned that it may have been wiser to carry out the testing with more manageable numbers over a longer duration. With such high numbers DND has to find out why. I am just offering a possible link to the drug use.

I am aware of the Drug Addiction and Alcohol Treatment program. This program works for those soldiers that show evidence of a problem or was tested. Unless a person admits to having a problem or is caught, they will never avail themselves of the program.

The soldiers that screwed up have been training together for six months with no evidence in their performance that there was drug use. If they were able to maintain TF standards during training why would one think they would not maintain the same standard now. Each soldier should be evaluated based on performance and PDR's from those in position to write them. If the soldier has shown quality performance and has good PDR's than delay the C&P until their return. I believe they have learned a life's lesson and will not repeat their mistake.

I will repeat what I said before, they know they dishonored the uniform they wear, they know they disappointed their fellow soldiers of the TF and they know they deserve punishment. I do not believe removing them from the TF( I know I am alone on this) is necessary.



 
okay. Both sides are firmly entrenched. Both sides are lobbing arty. Nobody has, or will convince the other to capitulate.

I think everyone's thoughts are pretty clear. Further "debate" now will simply be "Is not," "Is so." What say we just shut this down until final results are in?
 
paracowboy said:
I think everyone's thoughts are pretty clear. Further "debate" now will simply be "Is not," "Is so." What say we just shut this down until final results are in?
+1 Paracowboy

And that is exactly it, the final results are still not in.
 
First off, I would like to thank a member of this forum for the PM that explained the situation with the TF. It filled in many of the blanks and cleared up information that was passed on to me.

This maybe a situation where the person who passed on the information to me was not provided with all the pertinent details of what actually happened. I wish I could explain in more detail but I will say this subject is placed on the back burner for now.



 
They ordered second test earlier last month.How long does these things usually take?
It appears the first one took around two weeks,from what I've been reading on here.
Does anyone know when the results will be in?
 
099* said:
They ordered second test earlier last month.How long does these things usually take?
It appears the first one took around two weeks,from what I've been reading on here.
Does anyone know when the results will be in?

No, but I'm sure that once the final testing results are in, sorted out, and finalized, we will have an official announcement made by the CoC. Until then, all is speculation.
 
099
mod can always flush the cr@p out
 
All this talk about locking the thread, not saying nothing, etc........bull puckey I say. If not for the liability clause, I think (IMHO) that this info should be open source. Obvioulsy the big warning they recieved when they joined didn't work, maybe having the names posted would work.

Guns, you are not alone...........I concur with alot of what you are saying. I'll pm ya with my thoughts sometime. There is a time and place for disciplinary or administrative measures as you know.
 
Mods:  Tried searching, but  couldn't find the original thread on this, so feel free to plunk elsewhere as appropriate - shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act.

Screening of soldiers uncovers illegal use of drugs
Gloria Galloway, Globe & Mail, 24 Nov 06
Article - Permalink

OTTAWA -- Canadian troops being sent to Afghanistan in February are being tested for illegal drug use -- and about 5 per cent are failing.

The 2,300 Canadian Forces personnel, most of them from CFB Gagetown in New Brunswick, are the first group to be checked for illicit drugs since the Chief of the Defence Staff, General Rick Hillier, announced last November that the inspections would take place.

Afghanistan is the world's largest producer of opium and the military does not want to send people who already have problems into that environment. More than that, it needs troops who are in full control of their faculties.

But it took some time to get the testing program up and running and two deployments have left for the war zone without being checked for drug use since Gen. Hillier's Safety Sensitive Drug Testing Directive was issued.

Commander Denise LaViolette, a military spokesman, said yesterday that the testing of the next group to be sent to Afghanistan began in September and, as of mid-November, 1,396 people -- both reservists and regular troops -- had gone through the program. The rest will get their tests in the coming weeks.

Of the tests completed so far, 95 per cent were negative, Cdr. LaViolette said.


"Sixty-seven samples were positive for illicit drugs. In addition to those 67, there were a number of samples that were diluted. In the case of the diluted ones, we did retesting," she said.

The infractions have involved several different types of drug use but the military won't reveal the types of chemicals being found.

The troops discovered with diluted samples, which can indicate attempts to hide the evidence by drinking large amounts of water, were sent for retesting.

But prior to their second test, five people admitted to their commanders that they have been involved in illicit drug use, Cdr. LaViolette said.

"So, in total, 72 individuals or approximately 5 per cent either tested positive for illicit drugs or admitted to their use," she said. And another three who had diluted first samples tested positive on their second round.

While any drug use within the military is a concern, the levels of confirmed drug use are significantly lower than sources had previously alleged in interviews with other news media.

One newspaper reported in October that between 16 and 18 per cent of soldiers were testing positive for substances that included marijuana, speed, cocaine and even heroin.

Those who do test positive will not be subjected to a court-martial or any other type of police proceeding, Cdr. LaViolette said. The military cannot use that type of disciplinary action against people who have been forced to submit to drug tests.

Instead, they will undergo what is called an administrative review.

"The two actions that can result from an administrative review are counselling and probation or release from the Canadian Forces," Cdr. LaViolette said.

"We want to make sure that everybody is treated the same, that there are opportunities along the process for an individual to come forth with what they might feel is new information, and we want to make sure internally that people who are observing the process are also comfortable that this process is fair and equitable."

The military will consider a person's career, recommendations from his or her unit, previous behaviour and the type of drug used before determining whether the person will be released from the military.

But "all of these people have been removed from the rotation pending the results of the administrative review," Cdr. LaViolette said. And because the process will take some time, she said, none of those testing positive will be sent to Afghanistan in February.



1)  Well, compared to the most comprehensive stats I could find here, between 20% and 47% of Canadians aged 18 to 34 (in 2004) reported having used cannabis  products within the last year, so 5% is pretty damned good compared to the nat'l average.  Can we do better?  Yes.  How is this compared to the population we draw from?  Not bad, I think.  We can always do better, but funny how this sort of stat isn't included for context - in fact, the only comparative figure listed is the previous HIGHER guesstimates.  If it bleeds, it leads...

2)  I wonder what the rate of positives would be in a given group of people engaged in another job where there's a lot of stress, pressure and a high level of responsibility - say, journalists?  Could a group of them stay within the national average?  ;)

3)  Uh, that's it for now....
 
Am still convinced that there are a number of false readings in that group of 67 troops. 
There is also the issue of Ephidrine.  Some individuals working on body building use the stuff.  While still a controlled substance, it does not rate bieng grouped with Grass, Hash, coke & heroin IMHO.
 
geo, or anyone who can:  Enlighten me - are troops tested for ILLEGAL substances, CONTROLLED substances, or what?  Is it criminal code stuff they're looking for, performance enhancers?  My civvy understanding is that testing is being conducted for "dope", not necessarily steroids or such (but I stand to be corrected, hence the question).  In the case of ephidrine, as you mention, can't you get a positive from using certain antihistamines or decongestants?
 
Ayup,
Lots of drugs that are either prescription or over the counter can provide false readings so it is essential that the drug test administrators act in an informed and should I say "intelligent" manner?

Problem with steroids & epehdrin is that it does result in some behavioral side effects that are undesirable in a section / troop / squadron.

As was pointed out in your article, the official response to the drug tests will be administrative and not disciplinary so Illegal & controlled substance distinction is a moot point.
 
Wading into this with little else but my somewhat limited wits.

QR&O 20.07 says that no member of the CF shall use drugs. Use is defined in the preamble. Drugs is defined as those in the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act (RSC).

Ephedrine is listed in Schedule VI, Chapter 19 of the CDSA as a Class A Precursor. The act states that no one can import or export this substance unless exempted.

Re:CF I can't find anything that prohibits ephedrine, but CFMS has a pile of stuff warning on its abuse, and counselling against excessive or even prolonged use.
 
geo, cplc - thx for enlightening me a bit on this one.
 
On the other hand, here's another story - we'll see which version wire services are more likely to pick up  :(

Shared with the usual disclaimer....

Gagetown drug use ‘a lot less’ than first reported
Kristen Liscombe, Halifax Chronicle Herald, 24 Nov 06
Article Link

One out of 20 military personnel at CFB Gagetown have either tested positive for illegal drugs or admitted to using them, Defence Department data released Thursday shows.

Cmdr. Denise Laviolette, department spokeswoman, said that’s "a lot less" than reported last month by Maritime media outlets.

In fact, Fredericton’s Daily Gleaner ran a story stating between 16 and 18 per cent of soldiers tested at the base were caught with drugs ranging from marijuana to heroin in their system. Some reports were as high as 25 per cent, she said.

"There were numerous articles that indicated very high numbers (and) that there was a problem," she said Thursday from Ottawa. "At the time, we couldn’t provide specific information because we still had to await some of the testing."

But results released Thursday show that "95 per cent tested negative," Cmdr. Laviolette said, adding testing is still ongoing so totals have yet to be tallied.

So far, testing has turned up more than 70 soldiers with illicit drugs in their system, or five per cent out of almost 1,400 personnel tested between September and mid-November.

"Everybody that’s going to Afghanistan is undergoing what we call safety-sensitive drug testing," Cmdr. Laviolette said. About 2,200 soldiers were scheduled to head overseas in February.

However, Cmdr. Laviolette said 75 military personnel won’t be making the journey to Afghanistan because they will be undergoing an administrative review. In total, 72 Canadian Forces members are being reviewed for drug use and three others are being reviewed for breach of regulations, she said.

"The members who tested positive have all been removed from the rotation pending the results of the administrative review," Cmdr. Laviolette said. Disciplinary action could range from counselling and probation to release from the Canadian Forces, she said.The only exception that would allow a soldier back into the rotation heading to Afghanistan is if he or she has a valid medical reason for testing positive or turning over a diluted sample.

"If you happen to have a legitimate prescription for, let’s say, Tylenol with codeine, you would test positive," she explained. "In those circumstances, obviously you’ve done nothing wrong and there wouldn’t be a reason to continue with the administrative review."

Dan Middlemiss, director of the Centre for Foreign Policy Studies at Dalhousie University in Halifax, said many people in the military were skeptical of the high percentage of drug use initially reported in the New Brunswick media.

"It was based on an unattributed rumour," he said. "It just shows you why the good media are cautious in reporting these things as only rumours and not fact."

Cmdr. Laviolette said drug use in the Canadian military appears to be either lower or equal to the general public across the country.

"We are a reflection of society."

( klipscombe@herald.ca)
 
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