Divining the right role, capabilities, structure, and Regimental System for Canada's Army Reserves

[Rifleman62]

Here we go again.

I lived through the 'Totally Forced' phase

You had a good Reg F CO though.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Here we go again.
You had a good Reg F CO though.

Yeah, too bad he was in Edmonton and we were on Vancouver Island. Never saw him. Unlike the OC and the CSM they inflicted upon us unfortunately. Oh, the humanity  ;D

Right then, this thread derailing insanity must stop!

 

[Rifleman62]

Wrong guy.

I thought this thread had been beaten to death.

 

[George Wallace]

The regular army has about a million Captains, Majors and Light Kernels doing marginally interesting/ value added work in various HQs around the country and elsewhere (OK, I've got a dodgy database but you get my drift).

Why not post some of them in to get some command time, especially if they have family in the area, as COs and OCs, with a mandate to help generate their Class A replacements? Heck, if they come back to the area on retirement at a later date they might even consider joining up. We could do the same with SNCOs too.

And before you try to burn me as a heretic (sorry, nomex undies) I lived through the 'Totally Forced' phase and agree that sucked. There's no way we should try a repeat of that interesting sociological experiment.  :'(

Ya know......Just this very thing has been happening for the past fifteen or so years. 

 

[daftandbarmy]

Ya know......Just this very thing has been happening for the past fifteen or so years.

Really? Not in the units out this way AFAIK. We've got the standard 1 x Reg F Capt plus 1 x Class B Adm O (soon to be axed... the position that is, not the person) and a Reg F WO position. There are no Reg F COs/OCs/CSMs/RSMs of mole-itia units.

Where's this being done now, and is it working out OK?

 

[RangerRay]

Why not form units in a similar manner to the London Regiment in England?

Its an infantry regiment where each company represents it former unit (cap badges and titles)
An example of how it is set up
London Regiment
HQ Company
A (London Scottish) Company
B (Queen's Regiment) Company
C (City of London Fusiliers) Company
D (London Irish Rifles) Company

One example I will use is Toronto.
The Toronto Regiment
A (48th Highlanders) Company
B (Queen's Own Rifles) Company
C (Royal Regiment) Company
D (Toronto Scottish) Company

I could see this working as well in areas where regiments are spread out such and not in one city (use the battalion system) for example

1st Battalion, Ontario Light Infantry
A (RHLI) Company
B (Linc and Well) Coy
C (A and SH) Coy

2nd Battalion, Ontario Light Infantry
D (4RCR) Coy
E (E and K) Coy

etc, etc, etc.

I beleive this system can work because we organize our reserve units like that now anyways on weekend and other exercises.

Thoughts? Ideas? Opinions? Anybody want to whip a can of mashed pumpkin at my head?

I like it.  I think the Brits also did the same thing with the Scottish and Welsh regiments.

For British Columbia:

1st Bn., British Columbia Light Infantry
A (The Rocky Mountain Rangers) Coy
B (The Royal Westminster) Coy
C (The Seaforth Highlanders of Canada) Coy
D (The Canadian Scottish [Princess Mary's]) Coy

British Columbia Light Horse Regiment
A (The British Columbia Regiment [Duke of Connaught's Own]) Sqn
B (The British Columbia Dragoons) Sqn

Although even with the artillery, engineers and service battalion, 39 Brigade would be a pretty skimpy brigade!

 

[McG]

Thoughts?

I think your idea is fairly consistent with one of the more popular themes for change that some are promoting in this thread.  I am a supporter of the multi-regimental battalion.  There is also Canadian precedent for such organizations in the multi-regimental battalions that fisrt filled our NATO comitment to Europe.

 

[George Wallace]

Really? Not in the units out this way AFAIK. We've got the standard 1 x Reg F Capt plus 1 x Class B Adm O (soon to be axed... the position that is, not the person) and a Reg F WO position. There are no Reg F COs/OCs/CSMs/RSMs of mole-itia units.

Where's this being done now, and is it working out OK?

I know that both the RCD and RCR have over the past 15 years had officers fill the role of CO in a Reserve Unit.  One that I know personally went back to command our old Reserve unit in PEI and then continued to wear the PEIR hatbadge when he was posted back to NDHQ before being posted off to Australia.  (Army Vern can verify  this.)  He was replace in PEI by a Strat, who was also Regular Force at the time.  I have heard of several other instances where this has been done.

 

[Edward Campbell]

I know that both the RCD and RCR have over the past 15 years had officers fill the role of CO in a Reserve Unit.  One that I know personally went back to command our old Reserve unit in PEI and then continued to wear the PEIR hatbadge when he was posted back to NDHQ before being posted off to Australia.  (Army Vern can verify  this.)  He was replace in PEI by a Strat, who was also Regular Force at the time.  I have heard of several other instances where this has been done.

Roger that; Col R.G. Elms, of The RCR, (about to retire from his post as CFA Tel Aviv) was CO of The Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders just a few years ago.

 

[dapaterson]

The Army Commander has, in the past, had a very small number of positions to provide Reg F COs/DCOs to Reserve units.  However, rather than serving as a bridge when there was a gap in succession, it can become a crutch, with the same units repeatedly unable to generate senior leaders.

The Reg F has been unable to fill many of their Regular Force Cadre positions for a number of years now (for a while, less than half of Infantry Officer positions were manned, and under 10% of Artillery Officer positions were filled; I don't know of the current situation), so I do not see any increase to the number of positions allotted in the near term.

 

[shamu]

"So, where do you cut?  Full time work?  Reserves?  Family?  Outside life?  Or do we limit ourselves to lower-tier command candidates with either (1) no life, (2) no family and/or (3) no real career outside the military?"

Life: Priority of work for the Mo soldier.

#1 - Family.  #2 - Civilian Job/Education #3 - Reserves. #4 - Sports/Community/Hobbies

With a calendar, pen and 9erDelta you can achieve a workable plan.  This is the template I set out for my subs in managing their personal affairs. 

In this we guide soldiers to plan the multiple priorities in their lives; better attendance, better morale, better troops.  Instead of being overwhelmed, they're behind the 8 ball.  When we plan training or an event we also get a more reliable "Yes" or "No".

Few years back, an incoming CO we had at our Res unit did something really effective, IMO.  He let us know his/our priorities and expectations.  Helps the Res soldier book time off work, plan with family:

Priorities for Reserve duties:

#1 - Deployment on operations (ie; Afghanistan).  He expects every soldier in the unit to at least do one tour in their career; majority has done so, and of those, many have 2nd or 3rd tours.

#2 -  Career Courses.  One at least every 2 years, whether this be serials, weekends, block courses.

#3 -  Exercises.  Certain ex's are planned well ahead and attendance, if not doing #1 or #2, is required.

#4 - Instructing on courses. Whether it be unit run weekend crse or of the B class variety.

#5 - Parade nights.  Expected to attend MOST parade nights (75%).  Leaders expectations are higher.

#6 - Ceremonial.  Quite simply; encouraged to attend and a reason like sports or hobbies are exceptable if the troop is doing the other duties.

Communicating the intent, his expectations, guidance of how to prioritise. Brilliant! And in this we solve:

Soldiers being soldiers on operations; depth and experience in the unit.  Soldiers look at their individual situation and make time and space in their life for a tour on their own, knowing that is expected of them.  2nd or 3rd tours are not uncommon.

Regeneration issues.  No people sitting stagnant in the ranks for a decade; those who can lead are trained and developed to take on those positions. 

Parade nights are not the end all - be all.  Make productive use of this time; classes, admin, preparation for Exes, morale, look aheads,  interviews, so on.   

Greater turn out and focus for training on Exes.

Ceremonial events still end up being well attended because morale is good.


Not dogma, just something I saw that worked. 







 

 

[REDinstaller]

To save money amongst the reserves, I would reccomend consolidating units, but another topic perhaps?

Some units within the PRes have already been consolidated. The CERs/FERs have been combined to form 1 HQ per province (At least out west). Don't know how much of a saving this is yet. As well the Comm Gp HQs have been consolidated as well.

[Staff Edit to insert quote prior to thread split]

 

[Captsapper@gmail.com]

With respect to the Engineers, there was a consolidation of units, Some FES's and FER's consolidated to form a single CER for each Bde.  This was not a decrease by any means, in fact it was an expansion.  In all of the brigades that had more than one engineer sub unit (FES or FER) they were amalgamated under a single HQ.  In those Bde's that did not have a FER and only a FES they were expanded to have a minimum 2 squadrons and form a CER within that Bde (33, 35, 36, 37).  In LFWA, LFCA and SQFT this has already happened with each Bde now having a CER, with the exception of 38 Bde, they had no engineer unit to expand.  There is currently a Fd Sqn as part of the FGH in order to grow that capability within that Bde (Doing a great job!!).  Currently in LFAA the engineers are growing as well with 1 ES stood up in Fredericton in 37 Bde, and a troop stood up in Halifax as part of 36 Bde.  I believe the CER's are soon to follow (http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/37cbg_hq/units-unites/37cer-eng.asp).  Overall I think off the top of my head there were 6 additional engineer sub units created across the country as part of this initiative, certainly not a decrease in numbers.

 

[ArmyRick]

Looking at the PRes engineers as an example for consolidation. You have expanded but I am betting its been expansion at the soldier level and less RHQ (By combining in some cases the regiments).

I am a beleiver in some cases we MUST do this for the infantry and armoured units.

example 32 CBG has created 2 battle groups (dividing the six infantry regiments between them). I don't know why we insist on keeping all these RHQs alive. Personally, I think we should consolidate them.

 

[dapaterson]

Capt Sapper:

Mroe subunits does not equal more troops.  We need to cut the number of reserve subunits, not increase it - as we havea a mannign cap that is smaller than the sum of all Res subunits (to say nothing of the need for BTL).

The Army Reserve is its own worst enemy, in preserving useless HQs at all levels.  Too many HQs mean too many forced through the grinder to reach command and senior appointments without depth and breadth of experience.

Cut the number of LCol positions in the Army Reserve in half and we'd still be overborne, but be much farther ahead.

 

[larry Strong]

The Army Reserve is its own worst enemy, in preserving useless HQs at all levels.  Too many HQs mean too many forced through the grinder to reach command and senior appointments without depth and breadth of experience.

Cut the number of LCol positions in the Army Reserve in half and we'd still be overborne, but be much farther ahead.

Bingo

I have been arguing that point for years. Way too many LCol's and assorted hanger on's running company size units.

 

[Captsapper@gmail.com]

Agreed, there are a significant number of smaller reserve units across the country commanded by LCol's.  I believe what the Engineers did was an example of how to streamline things to have less HQ and more soldiers.  I will use BC as an example.  Prior to this there were two independent field squadrons in BC each with their HQ (Adjt, Ops, CC, etc) and there was a Sqn standing up in Chilliwack.  Now with the formation of 39 CER there is 1 RHQ and 3 Sqn's.  It is my understanding that the HQ's at each location have been reduced.  Yes a LCol position was created but at the end of the day it is a very large unit. 

In the East from what I have read with 37 CER they are taking positions from the second mission element of the 8CH and the RHQ positions from the Service Bn Amalgamation, no increases in numbers but creates a large unit that is geographically dispersed with a larger recruiting base that can support the entire Bde.

As ArmyRick mentioned this is possible for the Infantry and Armoured regiments as well.  I think the way the Engineers did it was efficient but at the end of the day we all wore the same cap badge.  Amalgamation of Infantry and Armoured units is a very touchy/political subject that I am not prepared to comment on.

 

[Infanteer]

As ArmyRick mentioned this is possible for the Infantry and Armoured regiments as well.  I think the way the Engineers did it was efficient but at the end of the day we all wore the same cap badge.  Amalgamation of Infantry and Armoured units is a very touchy/political subject that I am not prepared to comment on.

It would be touchy but I think the Infantry/Armoured Corps would get over it.  Associations may raise a snit, but considering the Reserves have such a high attrition rate that the next generation of soldiers (re, 1-2 years later) would have no real attachments to the "old" capbadge.

The simple solution: All Reserve Infantry/Armoured Units become Companies and Reserve CBGs would become TBG HQs.  The new TBGs can decide to amalgamate, create a new Regiment, or adopt a single existing Regiment as the new regiment for the Province.  These are all methods that the British Army has successfully utilized in the last 5 years.

 

[Redeye]

Plenty of those LCols aren't even running Company sized units - I don't think there are too many reserve units that could effectively raise a company complete.

The TBG structure as Infanteer mentioned is an interesting way of doing it - no need, necessarily, to bury unit traditions - many old units of the British Army are perpetuated in amalgamated units as Battalions, no additional overhead costs.

Bingo

I have been arguing that point for years. Way too many LCol's and assorted hanger on's running company size units.

 

[ArmyRick]

I personally agree with the idea of consolidating reserve regiments. Yeah I can hear the arguments now
"What about the history?"
"What about the traditions?"
"We won X number of battle honours..."

Blah, blah, blah. The sad reality is that a RHQ is costly and having it run a 100 man unit is ridicolus.
Another point, almost all of our reserve regiments were a result of amalgamations or multiple changes from the time they first stood up.

One of my old regiments, The Lorne Scots (Peel, Dufferin and Halton Regiment) is an example. They celebrate 1866 as the founding year. However the Lorne Scots as it is now was formed in 1936 by combining 3 different county regiments (With battle honours from WW1) into a new regiment.

Option 1
No sacred cows, no political bull, no side agendas, TIME TO AMALGAMATE THE REGIMENTS!!! The needs of the Forces comes first.

The only people who suffer by keeping these units alive like this are the 40 young men who could not be recruited because we had to spend the money keeping way more LCol and CWO on strength then we need.

So for example, the Lornes, G and SF and Tor Scots may be amalgamated together to form the 1st battalion, Southern Ontario Regiment. New Cap badge, new colours, new traditions.

Option 2, The "London Regiment" example . Lets say we go with this
1st Battalion, Southern Ontario Regiment (example)
RHQ (where ever)
A (Toronto Scottish) Company (Mississauga and Toronto)
B (Lorne Scots) Company (Brampton, Oakville and Georgetown)
C (Grey and Simcoe Forester) Company (Barrie and Owen Sound)

Each company would wear its distinctive former regimental affiliation. On exercise, no worry, they are no cap badges on helmets and bush hats.

For Ceremonial parades, the CO and RSM would wear the appropriate regimental dress for that area. Example on Saturday LCol Bloggins wears a G and SF DEU for the freedom of the city of Barrie and two weeks later he might be in a Tor Scot DEU at a cenotaph dedication ceremony.

Ideas? I have put forth COA #1 and COA#2