Discussion of Canada's Role in AFG (merged)

[QV]

In response to the question at the start of this post:

Because there are oppressed people there who need our help.

 

[Kat Stevens]

"I'm willing to bet any immigrant that is moving to Canada to find a better job is willing to risk having to live somewhere in Alberta.  Moving across the Pacific Ocean in search of a better life in itself is a huge risk, so I'm sure any immigrant that accepted that risk might be willing to live in Alberta for awhile."



No, thank you.  Alberta already has imported labour from across this great land that we don't have enough housing for... 8)

 

[Slim]

I'm willing to bet any immigrant that is moving to Canada to find a better job is willing to risk having to live somewhere in Alberta.

The moment we start to restrict the freedom of movement of any citizen in Canada (unless they've been either indicted or convicted of a criminal offence) the terrorists win a round and we as a society loose one.

Telling newly arrived immigrants that they must live in a certain place, even for a time, is a violation of our rights and freedoms and gives validity to the enemies of this country and the efforts to destabilize our society are one step closer to becoming reality.

Every Canadian has the right to live freely and choose the place that they wish to live in without fear or prejudice.

 

[GO!!!]

Every Canadian has the right to live freely and choose the place that they wish to live in without fear or prejudice.

Are not newly arrived immigrants already assigned areas where their skills are in the highest demand? I was under the impression that this was the case, that only refugees were permitted to reside in the cities of their choice.

 

[Kiel vonAachen]

Pike, what would insecure folks like you do if you didn't have us Americans to blame for every real and imaginary evil in the world? I mean if you could not blame the USA, who would you blame? Would it fall to maybe Monaco to pick up the Great Satan role? Even allowing for America's cultural imperialism (which by the way is more a function of the communications revolution than a plot by the CIA to annex Canada), your suggestion that brave Canadian soldiers are being placed in harm's way in southern Afghanistan to appease my government is an insult to Canada and the USA. You seem to have forgotten that the world changed on 9/11. You may prefer to live in a dreamworld, but the truth is this: there are governments, political movements, and terrorist groups that want to destroy us. You are foolish to believe that the Muslim extremists, North Korea, and Iran love you. They would kill you and your family in a New York minute.If you are fortunate enough to have a long,meaningful life, you should thank some young Canadian who is humping his ass off right now in the snow in the mountains of Afghanistan.Trust me. He didn't go over there to cozy up to George W and Karl Rove.He's there to protect people like you and me and to protect the innocent Afghans who cannot protect themselves. And just for the record, I'm a liberal Democrat who voted against George Bush in 2000 and 2004. I happen to believe that Bush,the Republican party, and their evangelical Christian extremist buddies have done unbelievable damage to my country and my people;however, this belief does not prevent me from supporting those who are on the front line of the War on Terrorism.

 

[Good2Golf]

+10 for Kiel.  Good to know it isn't just some of us Canucks who think that way!

Cheers,
Duey

 

[reccecrewman]

Another thing that strikes as odd WRT Afghanistan.  This includes Iraq as well.  Militant terrorists that have a penchant for rounding up Western infidels, then cruelly executing them on tape for broadcast on Al-Jazeera and the internet, really don't give 2 craps that you may believe that Western powers have no business over there.  There have been people executed that were not military, they were there with NGO's trying to help these people out and several believe that Western military has no business in the affairs over there.  Protestors here in North America who are screaming for Bush and all Western powers to leave the middle east just don't seem to understand that if they got the chance, they'd have their head cut off by these militants..................  Wake up!  There's a job to be done that we were asked to do and we are going to do it. Period.  Our CDS (by the direction of our political masters) has placed his soldiers in harms way for a legitimate cause - so please, all people who seem to believe they are speaking on Canada's soldiers behalf by questioning our reasons for being there and screaming for us to pull out, dig deeper and get the facts straight.  There's no oil involved here, we're not appeasing the Bush administration, and we're not just blindly following our NATO partners for sh!ts & giggles. 

On an offnote here, yet on topic - it would be nice to see our PM address the Nation on TV (put it on every freakin Canadian channel like they do when there's a political debate) and have him explain to the Canadian public exactly what our mandate is in Afghanistan, why we're there........... Get the Canadian Press on board, because they don't seem to grasp what we're doing there either. "Another Canadian peacekeeper was killed in Afghanistan today and 2 others wounded........" Arrrrrrghhh!  I know I hate being asked by civvies back home what it was like peacekeeping in Afghanistan.............. Not their fault, that's the impression being conveyed.

Regards

 

[Cannonfodder]

  You know and not to get off topic , but we are all reasonably educated people with opinions ,some not all that differant than others but we still end up in heated exchanges [I dont know if the anymotity  of the internet has anything to do with it] . Now if one was to remove the baseline standard of education , standard of living , and add some religious or ethnic hatred , nothing would get discussed . We have a hard time listening to others of differing opinion our perceived need to be right sometimes for goes  the possibility of resolution through discussion . As a civilized society we are not that differant than those conflict rich areas , we have a hard time listening to others when they do not recite what we think they should .
 

 

[Slim]

As a civilized society we are not that differant than those conflict rich areas ,

When was the last time you were forced to wear an orange jumpsuite and be threatened with having your head cut off if someone didn't agree with the current arguement being presented?

Sorry but I have a hard time swallowing that.

 

[Cannonfodder]

  I guess you can speak from expieriance .

 

[Slim]

  I guess you can speak from expieriance .

I'm sorry but I don't understand what you mean.

You are comparing our society with the over there in which they kidnapp you and cut your head off if you dissagree with them. have I got that right?

 

[Cannonfodder]

  We are both equal in that we cannot see the others point  ,  let alone listen to what the other person has to say . Our ears are not in gear we are already formulating a reply .The point is we let emotion cloud our ability to use logic and in that fashion we are all the same .

 

[Slim]

  We are both equal in that we cannot see the others point  ,  let alone listen to what the other person has to say . Our ears are not in gear we are already formulating a reply .The point is we let emotion cloud our ability to use logic and in that fashion we are all the same .

To be quite honset with you I believe that we hold our society to much higher standard of behaviour.

Sure there may be people here who would do what the Taliban and the AQ are doing. But society would hunt them and punish them if they did. And, in my experience, we (as a largely Christian society) have been raised to be kind and charitable to others, a few odd characters not withstanding.

Although people insist that the Muslim religion is one of peace (and I have nothing against Muslims or anyone else) they don't seem to want to act the part...

Who is controlling/moderating the behaviour of the radicals in the middle east?

 

[GO!!!]

  We are both equal in that we cannot see the others point  ,  let alone listen to what the other person has to say . Our ears are not in gear we are already formulating a reply .The point is we let emotion cloud our ability to use logic and in that fashion we are all the same .

Sorry, I think you are waaay off the mark on this one.

You are trying to draw a similarity between the western world and the asian/eastern world in term of a dispute resolution system, which is a mistake.

In very broad strokes, the west is based upon the needs, rights and the opinions of the individual, while in the east it is based upon the group (be it family, clan, community etc. As a result, we are appalled when an individual suffers and dies at the hands of monsters cloaked in religious extremism. In eastern society, killing is a deterrent to the larger group, and not especially rare or uncommon. As such, our aversion to killing is exploited, and their disregard for individual life is entrenched.

There is no "point" to be discussed. Which society do you want to live in? Are you willing to fight for it?

 

[Cannonfodder]

    Thanks for confirming what I posted earlier .

 

[Franko]

    Thanks for confirming what I posted earlier .

That makes absolutly no sense. Who are you directing this to?

Regards

 

[zipperhead_cop]

Didn't cannonfodder get called out a while ago to substantiate the views he is throwing around?  Thus far, the responders are being fairly articulate, and fodder is just lobbing trite nonsense around. 
Dude, if you argued yourself into a corner, then man up and bow out.  The only reason you keep getting flamed is because you keep opening yourself up. 
I understand the desire to not have anyone get killed on an Op.  No one wants to see that.  But I think we can kiss goodbye the days of going to Cypress and working on your tan and just hanging out in the Mediterranean for a few months.  The world is in a fairly critical junction at this point.  Countries with resources and abilities (like us) have a responsibility to try to make the other nations that need help stable and viable. It was through disregarding them for so long that the resentment of the west was so easy to foster.  If we turn our backs on these people again and leave the country to fall back to the cluster that it was, there will be a whole generation of Afghani's that will view us as cowards that cut and run when the going got tough, and with a little tweeking from a radical mullah, that opinion can be massaged into believing that it is our whole culture that is bankrupt and thus it is justified to do anything to us in order to bring about a world of Islam.  We only hear about the crap over there, bombings, riots.  I bet there are hundreds of stories, about soldiers sharing water or food, units rebuilding schools or hospitals, medics supplying aid to people who would have otherwise died in the street.  That is the kind of one on one interaction that will ultimately foster good will in these nations and make them realize that there is a better life beyond a theocratic doom state that the radicals are trying to pursue. 
I am very hesitant to recommend this, but if you can catch it as a rental, watch the movie Syriana.  It was long and boring, but it was a pretty good portrayal of the dynamics over in the middle east, particularly if you are interested in the oil/arab/religion/terrorism link.  Again, caution***not the best movie ever***

 

[Slim]

ZC

Good post. I agrre with it 100%

Slim

 

[Cannonfodder]

    Afghanistan was , is , and will continue to be a failed state . Religion , regional politics , economic situation will see to that , to think any differant is to be nieve . Sure you will make inroads  but gains can be quickly erased by events outside your control as those cartoons demonstrated the volitility of the situation . What will happen if a western country [not to be mentioned ] bombs a certain neighbours uranium enrichment facility ?, back to square one . Be omptimistic but dont be surprised  if it all goes to sheet .

 

[Fishbone Jones]

    Afghanistan was , is , and will continue to be a failed state . Religion , regional politics , economic situation will see to that , to think any differant is to be nieve . Sure you will make inroads  but gains can be quickly erased by events outside your control as those cartoons demonstrated the volitility of the situation . What will happen if a western country [not to be mentioned ] bombs a certain neighbours uranium enrichment facility ?, back to square one . Be omptimistic but dont be surprised  if it all goes to sheet .

Such wonderful faith in mankind. With the earth populated with so many as yourself, it's no wonder we're in such a shitty state.