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Crossfit & the CF

Agreed 100%. I shudder when I see people in the gym lifting weights and chatting with someone at the same time - what a waste of time (unless the point of the gym session is purely to escape the cubicle life for a while.
I also shake my head at those who spend (waste) 2 hours or more doing their workouts, when better results can be achieved in 30 mins (very high-intensity back to back). Anyone who's worked with any kind of meaningful intensity could not go 1-hour plus full tilt.
With CrossFit and HIT, there should be no excuses from anyone that they can't find time to workout. That's lazy speak. Anyone can find 30 mins in a day every couple of days to get to the gym. Just need the right mindset to make those 30 mins meaningful and productive (sadly most people don't like the discomfort that comes from higher-intensity sessions and are reluctant to go back to that feeling time and time again.) Their loss.
 
Here's one that I don't think has been posted here. It's written by somebody with far more credentials than I have and points out where CrossFit is good and where it isn't.

The AFM - CrossFit Final Report
http://www.cfpsa.com/en/psp/HumanPerformance/pdfs/THE%20CROSSFIT%20FINAL%20REPORT%20121106.pdf
 
Soldier1stTradesman2nd said:
I have found that the CrossFit sessions are great for muscular endurance improvement (upping the lactic acid threshold) but swing very quickly into the aerobic side of the house. Not too great for hypertrophy of the fast twitch muscles that operate in the anaerobic level.

Crossfit aerobic? Sure they will throw in some longer runs now and again. But 200/400m sprints are anything but aerobic. Take a workout like fran, completed by the top crossfitters in 2 mins where the average weight lifter would probably take 10 minutes. I've hardly seen any metcon workouts that are aerobic. If you find the main site WOD's too easy than I suggest you try http://www.navyseals.com/crossfit-workout-day
 
punkd said:
Crossfit aerobic? Sure they will throw in some longer runs now and again. But 200/400m sprints are anything but aerobic. Take a workout like fran, completed by the top crossfitters in 2 mins where the average weight lifter would probably take 10 minutes. I've hardly seen any metcon workouts that are aerobic. If you find the main site WOD's too easy than I suggest you try http://www.navyseals.com/crossfit-workout-day

Again cherry picking, the main site try's to balance all the different modalities of fitness.  Not every workout is a Metcon workout in the vain of "Fran" (and incidentally the metcons aren't going to be aerobic anyways)  Now a chipper like Filthy 50's or Running with Angie, definately have aerobic components.
 
Not trying to cherry pick here, just combination of personal experience and scientific literature. If we simply look at all the exercises as ways to contract muscle fibres to trigger a response (to said stimulus), we are subjecting these muscles to a load for a certain amount of time (or Time Under Tension/Time Under Load - TUT/TUL). Second, we all have a mix of Type 1, Type 2A and Type 2B muscle fibres (here is where genes bless us with either a larger number of fast twitch (sprinters/bodybuilders or more slow twitch (marathoners). Most people along the Bell curve have a good mix of both. But it is highly likely those with a the average mix have muscle fibre types unevenly spread across the body (ie personal example: slow twitch predominant in legs, fast twitch predominant in back/shoulders). What does this all mean? That the various fibre types require different levels of TUT (and correspondingly heavier/lighter resistance) to be trained in the optimal load/time window. And this is why a prescribed training regime to suit the individuals genetic tolerances is required (unless, as stated in the article I posted, we have the blind leading the blind, and get too old by the time we find the ideal workout plan).
So TUT - what does that mean in practice and why do I say that CrossFit sessions delve into the aerobic realm (unless you can prove to me that there are predominantly heavy weight, low rep, short session CrossFit sessions). As I have mentioned before (and are discussed in greater detail in the pdf posted by biosci, the three fundamentals of exercise are intensity (effort), volume (TUT or number of sets), and frequency (the rate of occurrence of training sessions). To trigger the growth/strength gain response, the intensity needs to be high and invariable (ie 100% effort). If the effort is, say, 90-95%, there is no requirement for the muscles to overcompensate, regardless of the number of sets or frequency performed. The body wants to stay in homeostasis, ie unchanged, as muscle gain is taxing on the system and requires more energy to maintain (hence atrophy after a certain amount of inactivity back to a "comfort" state). Progress is possible in lower intensity programs, but is much slower.
Now, volume - or TUT. if we are dealing with strength training (and NOT endurance training - not sure what your goals are with CrossFit), TUT and muscle fibre tolerances are critical to understand. If we want to stay in an anaerobic environment, TUT can't last very long - minimal 20 seconds to avoid lifting too heavy and risking injury. 120 second is max unless you want to enter the aerobic environment. Take a stopwatch and count the total TUT of any particular muscle group in a WOD and check if you are, one, exerting maximal intensity to trigger a response, and two, within the anaerobic window of TUT. Fast twitch muscles respond best with heavy weight, 30-45 seconds TUT as they can exert great force but tire out quickly (use of glycogen stores). Mixed types work optimally within the 60-70 second TUT range. Slow twitch can take a lot more volume (at reduced load of course) as they work in the 70-120 or beyond range (use of oxygen for fuel but smaller than fast twitch).
Bottom line, again depending on what your goals are, the incredible amount of reps asked for in at least the CrossFit WODs I have seen (I am a novice to this particular flavour of KooAid, I admit), means two things: while intensity or effort may feel high (and for some exercises such as thrusters and muscleups very well is high), most in-shape pers can achieve the rep counts given (esp if broken into groupings 25/25/25/25 = 100). However, most WODs are very high volume and seem to be geared to aerobic stimulus, wherein the fast-twitch fibres are going to lose the most, with mixed a close second. They may become slow-twitch like, but will never realise max strength potential.
 
biosci said:
Here's one that I don't think has been posted here. It's written by somebody with far more credentials than I have and points out where CrossFit is good and where it isn't.

The AFM - CrossFit Final Report
http://www.cfpsa.com/en/psp/HumanPerformance/pdfs/THE%20CROSSFIT%20FINAL%20REPORT%20121106.pdf

Good read and seems well balanced. Obviously the author has far greater credentials than myself in this realm, however, I do have to refer readers to Rational Strength Training: Principles and Casebook (and other IART resources http://www.exercisecertification.com/) for very strong arguments against Peridization (cover in an open-source link posted earlier) and 'explosive power' or 'plyometric' exercises (adherering to the laws of physics to achieve maximal training benefits while preveting injuries). In order not to violate copyright laws, I will not publish exerpts here.
The 'kipping' movements in CrossFit is as area where I have huge objections, and I refer to the Rational Strength Training chapter titled 'Physics, Mechanics and Safety.'

Of note, the AFM - CrossFit Report bibliography refers to National Strength and Conditioning Association (NSCA) a number of times. I have read a good number of critiques against teh NSCA and their methodologies (both theories and certification process). I just found another article that may raise some eyebrows on NSCA, and what they stand for.
http://www.personaltrainerbusinesstoolbox.com/members/regulatingpersonaltraining.html

Also, the AFM - CrossFit author criticises the CrossFit method of arbitrary rep counts yet he implements the same method in the recommended Army/CrossFit implementation program, without explaining why. While making sound comments on CrossFitt and justifiably indicates its numerous fallacies, he goes on to implement the same problem-areas.
 
I have a major problem with Crossfit. Myself and another guy I did it with both lost considerable gains in terms of Vo2 Max as tested using the beep/ 1.5mile run.

Pre-Crossfit I was running the 1.5 miler in 9. At this time I was doing AFM style training which includes careful guidlines as to distance and time for Interval training.

I then did Crossfit for about 2 months, upon testing my 1.5 mile time it was 9:45.

My theory is that for items like a 1.5 mile run you need to consistently be doing intervals at goal pace. Therefor your times will improve with practise. This is what the Army fitness manual had me doing.

However Crossfit has you doing intervals, but they aren't as structured and the "rest" periods usually involve doing pullups, presses etc.  Therefore your interval pace isn't as good.  I suppose one could argue that doing your intervals at the correct pace would give good results, but because of the intensity of the workouts and lack of rest period between intervals this is not possible.
 
If your goal is to improve your 1.5mile time, then you should be doing 1.5mile runs with intervals. I found it best to supplement work outs with either CFendurance or just random interval runs.
 
Similarly, as posted before, if you want ot become good at the CF EXPRES test, follwo a program (stimulus/rest principles ahered to) that incorporates the required exercises/movements. Ie. do the shuttlerun with the proper distance (20m) and the pivot motion (start/stop/start). Gradually build up the pace and time the intervals to the desired level/stage (which should be, at minimum, the exemption level for your age/gender).

Any number of CrossFitt or other programs will not adequately substitute for actual skill-specific training. Now, on the other hand, they may help in achieving the required number of pushups and situps.
 
First off BZ to Soldier1st, for the explanation earlier in the thread, read through the whole thing, and damn is it nice to see someone else with that kind of understanding, who will vocalize it.

And yes I do agree in general the Crossfit workouts lean more towards aerobic, in that you are not going to build significant mass or strength on this program, sure you will build some, but not nearly as much as you would on more strength and/or hypertrophy aimed workouts.  Simply the aim of CrossFit is to augment your strength/muscle endurance in other words your work capacity.

and to the person who mentioned his run time diminishing from changing up routines, that often happens, because being a great long distance runner is at the other end of the spectrum of being Very strong.  You can't be great at both

x2 for hating seeing ppl talk during sets, or reading magazines in between sets....i friggin hate that!!!
 
I saw a woman talking on her cell phone while on the sitting stationary bike for at least 30 minutes. Then her "trainer" brought her a Starbucks Coffee. There's just so much that's wrong with the whole situation. :brickwall:

And to bring back on topic. Here's an HIT guy's take on CrossFit. http://baye.com/crossfit/

I'm not a follower of either methodology but I have used similar techniques from time to time.

Biggoals2bdone said:
First off BZ to Soldier1st, for the explanation earlier in the thread, read through the whole thing, and damn is it nice to see someone else with that kind of understanding, who will vocalize it.

And yes I do agree in general the Crossfit workouts lean more towards aerobic, in that you are not going to build significant mass or strength on this program, sure you will build some, but not nearly as much as you would on more strength and/or hypertrophy aimed workouts.  Simply the aim of CrossFit is to augment your strength/muscle endurance in other words your work capacity.

and to the person who mentioned his run time diminishing from changing up routines, that often happens, because being a great long distance runner is at the other end of the spectrum of being Very strong.  You can't be great at both

x2 for hating seeing ppl talk during sets, or reading magazines in between sets....i friggin hate that!!!
 
DVessey said:
Link to Army Fitness Manual and Combat Fitness Program website:

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/land_force_doctrine_training_system/ex_aita_trg/acim/courses/acim/acim.swf

Very cool resource (in my opinion). There are drop down menus on the bottom, for the CrossFit excercises select 'Combat Fitness Program' and then 'Excercises'.


(Yes, I know I resurected(sp?) an old thread, but I figured it was the right place to put this. If you disagree, by all means start new one).

Cheers!

New link that works - short clips for each exercise.

http://ctc.gagetown.mil.ca/dlearn/Pan_Army_Projects/ACIM/courses/ACIM/ACIM.htm
 
Years ago, I remember that the Army was experimenting with the CrossFit fitness program to see if it would be more effective than traditional PT. Did CrossFit ever end up working out and was it ever proven to be more effective than traditional PT?
 
The Combat Fitness Manual, as a supplementary guide to the Army Fitness Manual, was published using Crossfit as a guide.

PT is largely up to individual tastes, but Crossfit is popular in the CF (just like it is in the US).  For example, Brigade sporting competitions often have "Crossfit" competitions as well.
 
Crossfit is just a brand name. Some of its methodology and exercises have been adopted.

High intensity workouts are now one of many tools for the imaginative to excite otherwise routine workouts.
 
BadEnoughDude said:
was it ever proven to be more effective than traditional PT?

Define "traditional" PT? Jogging and calisthenics?

It certainly hasn't proven to make you "stronger than powerlifters, bigger than body builders, and faster than track athletes" like it advertised itself. But it is probably one of the most time and money efficient methods for well-rounded fitness.
 
Hey everyone,

I'm new here but I have been reading this forum for years. I'm currently in first year university and I'm hoping to join the CF after I graduate, as either an Infantry Officer or Infantry Soldier.

In my continuing search for job-related and task-specific fitness, I have come across Crossfit (which I'm sure everyone knows :D) and the lesser known Crossfit Endurance (www.crossfitendurance.com, WFS).

Crossfit Endurance or CFE is meant for athletes who want to be good at Crossfit workouts and have all-around fitness, but who also want to compete in endurance sports. It includes little long slow distance work and a lot of high intensity intervals, tempo's and time trials. I have heard of positive reults from it but I have also heard negative ones as well.

If anyone has used it and would like to share their experiences, good or bad, that would be great! All thoughts and comments on the subject are welcome.

For those who serve and have served, Thank You.

With respect,

Michael K


ps. my apoligies for any material on the CFE website which is not WFS.
 
If you are doing endurance sports or long distance running then it is a great program.  I have used it for rugby and have a few friends that are marathoners that swear by it.  It is fairly intensive and you will notice decreased abilities in other areas of fitness due to its focus (not tremendous amounts but certainly enough to notice).  I personally wouldn't do it unless I had a reason to but that's just me.
 
Haven't seen this pot stirred for awhile. ;D
 

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