Crash Landing; The Passionate Eye-CBC

[GO!!!]

Pansy attitude? Ok, I guess I hit a nerve? Sounds to me like the mefloquine has made you a little squirrely! Sorry if I didn't follow your threads closely enough, I did jump on it without reading it cclosely enough, and for that I am embarassed. But your high-school putdowns about my 'pansy' attitude to physical discomfort are even more off the mark than I was with you. Do you really think almost losing a foot because one didn't disclose his 'discomfort' just physical discomfort? I don't think comments about 'band-wagon jumping', lack of experience, regurgitating FOX news, and accusing people of having a lack of education is really necessary though, do you? Seems petty coming from someone who is considered a senior member at army.ca.

My only mistake was humouring you. Losing a foot? Almost only counts in horshoes and hand grenades. I've almost died a bunch of times, almost been paralysed, almost won the lottery... none of it counts! I've been on IV's lots of times, it is no big deal, all it is for is to rehydrate you and maybe some painkillers or anti-biotics. If you find large blisters and IVs to be disturbing, it is probably a good thing you washed out as early as you did, because it only gets harder.

You obviously don't know what you are talking about in terms of PTSD, conditions whilst deployed or what the different drugs we take are intended for, and what the REAL side effects are. You are relying on the sensationalised and anecdotal accounts in the media. If you find my comments petty, they were directed at you, and they had to suit the target.

So before you post any more, perhaps you should think "hmm, do I know this for sure? Was it MY personal experience? Could I generate a source, and footnote for this statement? Or did I pick it up in a left leaning editorialist's column?"

 

[Infanteer]

So before you post any more, perhaps you should think "hmm, do I know this for sure? Was it MY personal experience? Could I generate a source, and footnote for this statement? Or did I pick it up in a left leaning editorialist's column?"

That one should be stickied....

 

[armyintheafterlife]

I figured I was going to get hammered for saying that this mocumentary was BS.

It is good to hear that the majority of you believe, as I do, that some of these people are, at worst, malingering, pathelogical liars, and at best, overstating their suffering for a free meal ticket.

Maybe our military is not beyond hope?

Or...maybe the majority isn't with you on this at all, maybe people just recognize your limited ability to comment on the subject intelligently and generally prefer to ignore you and your judgments so post no response to you hoping you'll eventually go away...

 

[TCBF]

"....maybe the majority isn't with you on this at all," - Armyintheafterlife.

Actually, most of us ARE with him on this.  Unity in Mefloquine, I guess.

Tom

 

[PPCLI MCpl]

Or...maybe the majority isn't with you on this at all, maybe people just recognize your limited ability to comment on the subject intelligently and generally prefer to ignore you and your judgments so post no response to you hoping you'll eventually go away...

I'm with him.  And his ability to both express himself and soldier is well documented.  I invite you to fill out your profile and enlighten us as to the vast experience you are drawing upon when you made this comment.

 

[armyintheafterlife]

I'm with him.  And his ability to both express himself and soldier is well documented.  I invite you to fill out your profile and enlighten us as to the vast experience you are drawing upon when you made this comment.

Just signed up on these forums, son.  Just finished with the profile.  My CV wouldn't fit in the space provided, sorry. 

 

[PPCLI MCpl]

Just signed up on these forums, son.   Just finished with the profile.   My CV wouldn't fit in the space provided, sorry.  

Welcome to the site Ma'am.  Now that we are acquainted, I'll post my reasons for sharing this member's views. Having witnessed myriad soldiers abuse the system in regards to PTSD related pensions, I've begun to think critically while pondering others member's claims, and in particular, member's stories spun by the media.  I firmly believe that their is no acid test to determine if a person is truly suffering from PTSD, and this causes many complications.  But many of us in the combat arms have dealt with personell who are admittedly de-frauding the system for a multitude of reasons.  This tends to upset most of us and I, personally, have no problems with sharing my point of view on the subject.

 

[291er]

 It seems that we get one after another poster claiming to have their finger on the pulse of the masses

armyintheafterlife: As a new user on these forums, how can you possibly vouch for other users?  Ignoring posts and hoping people will go away negates the purpose of this forum altogether, would'nt you agree?  The way I see it, plenty of people have viewed this post, and I've NEVER seen anyone ignore something that they did'nt agree with on these forums before, so why start now?  As for your enormous CV etc, why not fill out a few more details on your profile and enlighten us?  Ret'd Captain does'nt exactly provide a lot of clarity and I personally find it rather amusing, and could probably be misconstrued as disrespectful, the way you refer to fellow user as "son".

 

[armyintheafterlife]

Welcome to the site Ma'am.   Now that we are acquainted, I'll post my reasons for sharing this member's views. Having witnessed myriad soldiers abuse the system in regards to PTSD related pensions, I've begun to think critically while pondering others member's claims, and in particular, member's stories spun by the media.   I firmly believe that their is no acid test to determine if a person is truly suffering from PTSD, and this causes many complications.   But many of us in the combat arms have dealt with personell who are admittedly de-frauding the system for a multitude of reasons.   This tends to upset most of us and I, personally, have no problems with sharing my point of view on the subject.

Thanks.  Don't feel like you have to be formal with me.  Bin out for 8 years.  Haven't been addressed like that for what seems like an eternity.  Never did really get used to it.  CFR.  

I'm not suggesting that anyone's view is superior, more or less important in one way or another, as we all have our own take on things, it is what it is.  At the same time, it's just a wee bit rich for anyone to judge no negative response from all who might read a comment as agreement.  

What you're saying here about your own experience with people that abuse the system is likely a problem if you're able to see it.  Question then becomes who is policing it?  There are real clear criteria for the diagnosis and (supposed to be) a series of checks in the VA system to defeat false claims of any sort, not just PTSD.  There is also apparently a real good prognosis for people who are able to get treatment soon after the critical event.  It is indeed a case where the thing is recognized, the person gets treatment, person is able to lead a normal life again.  What doesn't help is somebody ranting here or at the Unit about things he obviously doesn't understand and has made little or no effort to find out about.  He is doing exactly what the fella in the film analogized when he talked about how the deer (a species minus the frontal lobe capacity of humans) pick on the weak and push them to the perimeter.    

The woman in the film wasn't receiving a pension.  It was unclear to me who among the people on the show were receiving VA benefits.  The postscript to it made the point that the Fed gov't was being sued for I think it was 18 or so million by former members.  So, looks like it doesn't really matter what spin or air time the media gives this, the Fed court will decide.        

 

[armyintheafterlife]

 It seems that we get one after another poster claiming to have their finger on the pulse of the masses

armyintheafterlife: As a new user on these forums, how can you possibly vouch for other users?  Ignoring posts and hoping people will go away negates the purpose of this forum altogether, would'nt you agree?  The way I see it, plenty of people have viewed this post, and I've NEVER seen anyone ignore something that they did'nt agree with on these forums before, so why start now?  As for your enormous CV etc, why not fill out a few more details on your profile and enlighten us?  Ret'd Captain does'nt exactly provide a lot of clarity and I personally find it rather amusing, and could probably be misconstrued as disrespectful, the way you refer to fellow user as "son".

You are entitled to think whatever you like.

 

[Dizzy]

I have read (and I'm trying to find again) the paper that stated that a disproportionately high number of CSS troops are suffering from PTSD and have been placed on leave. The justification for this that was given was that the CSS trades often lacked both the esprit de corps of a cbt arms unit, and the "presitge" of having been an active participant in cbt operations.

Are you thinking of the student reader from OPME course Leadership & Ethics? It has several articles about combat stress and at least one of them echos these thoughts.

 

[GO!!!]

Are you thinking of the student reader from OPME course Leadership & Ethics? It has several articles about combat stress and at least one of them echos these thoughts.

Now that you mention it, I believe it was (either that or one of the PLQ mods) alot of the material is the same.

Those notes and readers are at work, and I'm not.

I know what I meant, and I realise that I am being somewhat hypocritical by not providing a source, sorry.  :-[

 

[Bob F.]

Welcome to the site Ma'am.   Now that we are acquainted, I'll post my reasons for sharing this member's views. Having witnessed myriad soldiers abuse the system in regards to PTSD related pensions, I've begun to think critically while pondering others member's claims, and in particular, member's stories spun by the media.   I firmly believe that their is no acid test to determine if a person is truly suffering from PTSD, and this causes many complications.   But many of us in the combat arms have dealt with personell who are admittedly de-frauding the system for a multitude of reasons.   This tends to upset most of us and I, personally, have no problems with sharing my point of view on the subject.

You witnessed a myriad of 'soldiers' abuse the system...I would not have assumed THAT about the men of the PPCLI...if you say so.
Or, did you mean that you witnessed that about other units in the rear, from your vantage point in the front?(wps det on overwatch?l)
I do not agree about fakers in droves abusing the system.
I am perspersonally aware of several people who suffer and the circumstances that lead to their condition. A little support and understanding from the brothers goes a long way with them. Speculating about the prospect that they are full of shit does not.
So you have been throu some severely challenging situations and have walked away unscathed and feeling fine, thats great for you. I have too, but I will not turn a cold shoulder to the less fortunate brothers who have nightmares all the time, and cannot coap with it alone.
I hope the more compasionate soldiers step forward here. Or better yet, people with PTSD, or depression related to service, to help the sceptical understand the problem better.

 

[2 Cdo]

I think this argument is fairly polarized with both sides claiming all sorts of abuses and uncaring government that we are missing the big picture.

Yes there are people who will claim PTSD for what I would think is a very questionable incident. Yes there are people who are afraid/ashamed to come forward for any help. I am not a doctor, nor do I claim to be but,,,,, I do know personally of 3 people who admitted to conning the system, 1 who regularly talks to people and offers advice on how to get maximum financial benefit not medical help. That is what tends to pi$$ off hard-working troops who might be suffering, their desire to not be lumped in with these types.
Second point, is I have known several individuals who suffer from PTSD and about half of them are back to work and doing well. I will never begrudge a person who suffers from PTSD but I will report those who openly admit they are milking the system. If one truly is suffering the last thing they should be concerned with is money, they should be worried about their health!
Just my 2 cents!

 

[S McKee]

I think this argument is fairly polarized with both sides claiming all sorts of abuses and uncaring government that we are missing the big picture.

Yes there are people who will claim PTSD for what I would think is a very questionable incident. Yes there are people who are afraid/ashamed to come forward for any help. I am not a doctor, nor do I claim to be but,,,,, I do know personally of 3 people who admitted to conning the system, 1 who regularly talks to people and offers advice on how to get maximum financial benefit not medical help. That is what tends to pi$$ off hard-working troops who might be suffering, their desire to not be lumped in with these types.
Second point, is I have known several individuals who suffer from PTSD and about half of them are back to work and doing well. I will never begrudge a person who suffers from PTSD but I will report those who openly admit they are milking the system. If one truly is suffering the last thing they should be concerned with is money, they should be worried about their health!
Just my 2 cents!

In any system there will be abuse, it's a fact of life, it doesn't matter whether it's worker's comp, EI, Auto insurance or VAC. I have heard, like others on this forum, anecdotal stories of people planning to "get" PTSD and believe me if anyone ever made a comment to me that they were going to scam the system I would report them without hesitation. These individuals are scumbags, stealing from their fellow soldiers, they have no pride in themselves or the uniform. I wouldn't walk across the street to piss on them if they were on fire.

 

[Bob F.]

We sleep well in our beds with the knowledge that brave men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those that would do us harm....
by scamming the system? Thankyou for being prepared for that, comforting indeed.
Any thoughts about the legitamite cases?

 

[S McKee]

We sleep well in our beds with the knowledge that brave men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those that would do us harm....
by scamming the system? Thankyou for being prepared for that, comforting indeed.
Any thoughts about the legitamite cases?

I can only speak for myself, however I have received nothing but the best treatment from the medical system. I realize I am probably a rarity, however I was fortuneate enough to have an understanding OC, a supportive unit and peers. I believe unit and peer support IS the key for members with this condition. I have heard of numerous horror stories of soldiers who are basically thrown to the wolves once they come forward.

 

[PPCLI MCpl]

You witnessed a myriad of 'soldiers' abuse the system...I would not have assumed THAT about the men of the PPCLI...if you say so.
Or, did you mean that you witnessed that about other units in the rear, from your vantage point in the front?(wps det on overwatch?l)
I do not agree about fakers in droves abusing the system.
I am perspersonally aware of several people who suffer and the circumstances that lead to their condition. A little support and understanding from the brothers goes a long way with them. Speculating about the prospect that they are full of crap does not.
So you have been throu some severely challenging situations and have walked away unscathed and feeling fine, thats great for you. I have too, but I will not turn a cold shoulder to the less fortunate brothers who have nightmares all the time, and cannot coap with it alone.
I hope the more compasionate soldiers step forward here. Or better yet, people with PTSD, or depression related to service, to help the sceptical understand the problem better.

Didn't mean to come across as being cold hearted.  I am a relatively compassionate infanteer (must be a vestige of my Med A past) and those people who come forward get my full support.  Unfortunately,  I have also dealt with individuals who have admitted to "milking" the system.  Most of them have been reported and are being handled much further up the chain.  When I use the word "myriad" I mean too many, or a disproportionately high number.  One is too many for me, and I have seen more than one in my unit alone.  And I echo others when I say that these fakers cause nothing but anguish for those who want to come forward, but don't want to be lumped in with the trash.  Group punishment in its worst form.

 

[GO!!!]

Any thoughts about the legitamite cases?

I am aware of a few of my peers. They recognised problems (alcohol abuse, sleeplessness, relationship problems, weight loss/gain) and were able to link them to events, either singular or protracted over period of time. Most of them sought help in the most confidential way possible, through the Member Assistance Program, or even private councillors. They scheduled appointments that would be easily concealed and attended them. Some of these guys are medicated now, but they come to work, they kept fighting until they were back.

As far as I am concerned, they were injured, sought help, and rehabilitated.

The "other" guys that basically just "quit" kill me. They are'nt even trying. I know a few of those too. If asked when they are returning to work, they just laugh - "why should I?" they say "I get paid to stay at home" then they get part time jobs. They are f***ing parasites, putting strain on a system designed for people who need help.

IMHO, this would be true of any large group of people though. WCB finds people cheating them all the time, just like Ricky's dad on Trailer Park Boys. The CF is striving to accurately represent the Canadian public, so I guess this will happen in both good and bad ways.

 

[Bob F.]

Thankyou to the last three posters for taking a few extra moments to clarify. Have a good one.