Cpl Wilcox court martial - Sydney NS

[vonGarvin]

Good information.  Now can you find the part that says you can only stay in SDB if your sentence is less then 2 years?  Or the part that says there is NO civie record of you being in jail.  There is only military records of you being in cells, and that is sealed to civies, so any time he did in SDB would not count.

That's not quite accurate.  If a military member receives a punishment severe enough (over 200 dollar fine for example), then that conviction never automatically is purged from your record.  If said member says later that "he's never been convicted", in spite of the fact that back in BMQ he had to pay a 250 dollar fine, and he never put in for a pardon, he'd be wrong.  Let's not forget that the National Defence Act is a federal act, and transgressions against it are a matter of public record.

 

[kratz]

Both CTV.ca and CBC.ca have updated their stories on this. It looks like he will be going to the CFSPDB until the Courts Martial Appeals board hears his application.

from CTV

His lawyers immediately filed to appeal both the sentence and the conviction that found Wilcox guilty of negligent performance of duty and criminal negligence causing the death of Megeney.

The judge decided late Wednesday that Wilcox will begin serving his sentence immediately, while he waits on the status of his appeal.

from CBC

The defence is planning to appeal the conviction and sentence. On Wednesday evening, Wilcox's application for release during the appeal process was denied and he was escorted out of the courtroom.

He was to spend the night at the Sydney garrison and be transported to the military prison at Canadian Forces Base Edmonton. It's not clear if he will serve his entire sentence there.

Edit to add

:threat: I should have checked the Chronicel Herald. Their coverage provides the reason's he gave for requesting an appeal. After reading this, I am shaking my head.

Maj. Turner argued that Cpl. Wilcox should not have to go to prison while he waits for his appeal because there's little risk the soldier would re-offend or harm the public.
 
But Maj. Samson, the military prosecutor, said that delaying the sentence reflects poorly on the military justice system because a convicted criminal appears to go unpunished.
 
Cpl. Wilcox would likely continue to take a wood products manufacturing course at the Nova Scotia Community College if he were allowed to delay his prison term. He told the court Wednesday that he applied for school after he was convicted, because he wanted to have a fallback career in case the judge kicked dismissed him from the army.

Cpl. Wilcox started attending class earlier this month.

 

[armyvern]

Their coverage provides the reason's he gave for requesting an appeal. After reading this, I am shaking my head.

Can't blame the kid for trying ... there was a very slim chance, after all, that he may have been found not guilty.

The Supreme Court of Canada has previously heard arguements regarding both the authority of the Military tribunal and the speed, frequency and severity of punishment (Thus, I suspect his appeal will not see a decision rendered that the ex-corporal will like):

The Supreme Court of Canada states in the case of R. v. Genereux, [1992] 1 S.C.R. 259:

“The purpose of a separate system of military tribunals is to allow the Armed Forces to deal with matters that pertain directly to the discipline, efficiency and morale of the military. The safety and well·being of Canadians depends considerably on the willingness and readiness of a force of men and women to defend against threats to the nation’s security.

To maintain the Armed Forces in a state of readiness, the military must be in a position to enforce internal discipline effectively and efficiently. Breaches of military discipline must be dealt with speedily and, frequently, punished more severely than would be the case if a civilian engaged in such conduct. As a result, the military has its own Code of Discipline to allow it to meet its particular disciplinary needs.”

Regarding the CBC's being unsure of whether or not this ex-corporal will spend "all" of his time in DB; google can be their friend too.

QR&O 114 GENERAL PROVISIONS RESPECTING IMPRISONMENT AND DETENTION

Begin at 114.05 (this is where the "not greater than 2 years" [ie 2 years less 1 day] is laid out); this chapter also deals with sentences of imprisonment being carried out partially within DB with a subsequent transfer to penitentiary or civil prison.

Just how much time this ex-soldier will do in Club Ed remains to be seen, but I suspect it'll be on the very steep end ... perhaps even just one day shy of that 2 year mark prior to transfer to the pen.

http://www.smafinsm.forces.gc.ca/qro-orf/vol-02/tc-tm-114-eng.asp

http://www.forces.gc.ca/jag/justice/index-eng.asp

 

[BlueJingo]

You are a disgrace to the CF and are surely no brother of mine.

I concur.  :threat:

 

[Gunner98]

Once his dishonorable discharge becomes effective he is likely to be transferred to Club Fed as per the precedence like Kyle Brown.

 

[Harley Sailor]

That's not quite accurate.  If a military member receives a punishment severe enough (over 200 dollar fine for example), then that conviction never automatically is purged from your record.  If said member says later that "he's never been convicted", in spite of the fact that back in BMQ he had to pay a 250 dollar fine, and he never put in for a pardon, he'd be wrong.  Let's not forget that the National Defence Act is a federal act, and transgressions against it are a matter of public record.

I think you may have miss read what I ment.  "MacDonalds" for example can not look at my military record.  Therefore even if I did two years less a day in SDB, they can not find out I was ever in cells or even charged.

 

[Harley Sailor]

Thank you ArmyVern for tthe answer I was looking for.  Hard to do now that I have retired.

From QR&O 114.05
"(1) Subsections 220(1) and (2) of the National Defence Act provide:

220. (1) A service convict whose punishment of imprisonment for life or for two years or more is to be put into execution shall as soon as practicable be committed to a penitentiary to undergo punishment according to law, except that a committing authority may, in accordance with regulations made by the Governor in Council, order that a service convict be committed to a service prison to undergo the punishment or any part of the punishment."

How I read this is that he has to be moved to civie penitentiary as soon as posible. Do not go to SDB, do not collect $200.

 

[Loachman]

I guess Wilcox missed that when putting on the uniform part time...

He was wearing his uniform full time when he committed this act.

What's your point?

Many Regular Force members have committed acts at least as bad as this.

Slagging reservists in general - as you have essentially done - is not on.

 

[vonGarvin]

I think you may have miss read what I ment.  "MacDonalds" for example can not look at my military record.  Therefore even if I did two years less a day in SDB, they can not find out I was ever in cells or even charged.

Yes they can.  Just as with any "criminal check", they can find out if you were convicted and awarded a punishment.  Trust me on this.

Suppose, for example, that John Doe were charged with AWOL.  Suppose that John Doe were found guilty and his punishment included a fine of $201.  Also suppose that John Doe is now a civilian, ten years after the fact, and that he never applied for a pardon.  Also, John Doe has never been convicted of an offense under the Criminal Code of Canada.  John Doe walks into Swiss Chalet and applies for a job.  In his application, he states that he's never been convicted for a crime for which a pardon had not been received.  John Doe is wrong.  Though his Criminal record is clean, he does still have a conviction showing against the National Defence Act.

 

[ENGINEERS WIFE]

Drapeau said the sentence was "severe" in some respects, as Wilcox did not intentionally shoot his friend and he could likely continue to serve his country.

"He is a young man, he is a reservist...he was remorseful and I think he could continue to serve his country and learn from it," said Drapeau.

With files from The Canadian Press


Drapeau=Bonehead


I most certainly would not want my husband or anyone else for that matter in a foxhole next to someone like Cpl Wilcox, no matter how remorseful he is.  It doesn't change the outcome.  Cpl Megeney is still dead.  Hopefully this will bring his family some closure.

 

[the 48th regulator]

Folks,

I have said this before, and will state this again.

Let us not all deomonize, Wilcox, and Sanctify Megeney.  The Judge also believes that Both were involved in Horseplay with weapons, doing a game of quick draw.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2009/09/30/ns-wilcox-prison.html

"I am satisfied beyond a reasonable doubt that the shot that killed Corporal Megeney was accidentally discharged in the course of horseplay with guns engaged in consensually, by both the offender and the deceased," said the military judge, Cmdr. Peter Lamont.

Wilcox reasons for creating a story may never be understood, it could be to hid both of their idiocy, helping to maintain a good memory of  Megeney, and himself.

Just keep that in mind while we vilify Wilcox, and embrace Megeney.  Had this been another situation, where they were not Canadian Soldiers, We would have nominated Megeny for a Darwin award and had a chuckle about it.

dileas

tess

 

[ENGINEERS WIFE]

Not sure if that comment was directed at me, the 48th regulator....

But, I am not vilifying Cpl Wilcox, just to clarify.  I have no doubt it was an unintentional and he is very remorseful.  But it still doesn't change the outcome.  AND because they are well-trained Canadian soldiers that handle weapons regularly and were in a combat zone they should be held to a higher standard.  And that is why they get so much training, because the outcome can have very  serious consequences.  And had the roles been reversed I would be saying the same about Cpl Megeney.

Everyone has made bad decisions in their life, most of us get anyway without harming anyone, sometimes we don't.  Sometimes good people make bad choices and I think is the case with Cpl Wilcox.  But now he has to live with his bad choice.

 

[the 48th regulator]

Not sure if that comment was directed at me, the 48th regulator....

But, I am not vilifying Cpl Wilcox, just to clarify.  I have no doubt it was an unintentional and he is very remorseful.  But it still doesn't change the outcome.  AND because they are well-trained Canadian soldiers that handle weapons regularly and were in a combat zone they should be held to a higher standard.  And that is why they get so much training, because the outcome can have very  serious consequences.  And had the roles been reversed I would be saying the same about Cpl Megeney.

Everyone has made bad decisions in their life, most of us get anyway without harming anyone, sometimes we don't.  Sometimes good people make bad choices and I think is the case with Cpl Wilcox.  But now he has to live with his bad choice.

No at you perse, however what would you say to writing you final sentence as this....

I most certainly would not want my husband or anyone else for that matter in a foxhole next to someone like Cpl Wilcox or Cpl Megeney, no matter how remorseful Wilcox, or Dead Megeny is.  It doesn't change the outcome.  Cpl Megeney is still dead and Cpl. Wilcox is Paying the price alive.  Hopefully this will bring their families some closure.

dileas

tess

 

[ENGINEERS WIFE]

While I see the point you are trying to make, I said "And had the roles been reversed I would be saying the same about Cpl Megeney."
While they could very easily be reversed, they are not. 
And I stand by my statement, but you are right in respects that I should of said that I do hope BOTH families find some closure.
It is very sad for all involved.

 

[the 48th regulator]

While I see the point you are trying to make, I said "And had the roles been reversed I would be saying the same about Cpl Megeney."
While they could very easily be reversed, they are not. 
And I stand by my statement, but you are right in respects that I should of said that I do hope BOTH families find some closure.
It is very sad for all involved.

EW, please do not take it personally, I did not intend to target you.

All I am saying is that two soldiers were bumbling around, and one was killed doing it.

Both should be recognized as being guilty, and not have the unbalanced blame thrown on one, and not the other, based on the outcome.

It burns me up when I see posts about Wilcox being this evil fella, and Megeney being an innocent man.  Megeney was not laying in his bunk listening to Bach and reading War and Peace, as Wilcox walked up to him, drove the pistol in his mouth and fired 53 times.

They faced each other, and played a "game" of quick draw.  Unfortunately, one drew the Ace of Spades....

dileas

tess

 

[ENGINEERS WIFE]

No worries 48th 
Not taken personally.  I definitely hear what you are saying. 
Two lives and two families will never be the same.
As grownups there are consequences for our actions, however remorseful we are or however unintentional it was.
Tragedy for all.

 

[Harley Sailor]

Can we look for the good in all.  Maybe this will stop others from playing the same game. At least remember to unload first.

 

[vonGarvin]

Can we look for the good in all.  Maybe this will stop others from playing the same game. At least remember to unload first.

No, No, No!
Never EVER point a weapon at someone unless you intend to shoot them.  Period. 
"Ooops, forgot to unload".  And the circle of stupidity continues.

 

[Roy Harding]

No, No, No!
Never EVER point a weapon at someone unless you intend to shoot them.  Period. 
"Ooops, forgot to unload".  And the circle of stupidity continues.

Say it AGAIN, and AGAIN, and AGAIN.

NEVER NEVER NEVER point a weapon at anything you don't intend to shoot.

 

[medicineman]

Say it AGAIN, and AGAIN, and AGAIN.

NEVER NEVER NEVER point a weapon at anything you don't intend to shoot.

I think the letters D, U, H come to mind, but strange how common sense is being bred out of the gene pool...

MM