• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Cost of Rescue

mariomike

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Mentor
Reaction score
1,332
Points
1,260
Saw this on today's news.

My wife is in a dive trip with her sister ( a non-diver ) out there right now, so this caught my eye.

Some in Newfoundland want thrill-seekers to pay for their own rescue​

A series of high-profile misadventures by thrill-seekers in Newfoundland has ignited a debate over who pays for the rescue when things go wrong.
 
Within Canada, SAR activities span a multitude of jurisdictions:

  • The Canadian Armed Forces are responsible for aeronautical incidents;
  • The Canadian Coast Guard is responsible for marine incidents;
  • Parks Canada is responsible within national parks; and
  • Provincial and territorial governments are responsible for searches for missing persons including those who are lost or overdue on land or inland waters - commonly known as Ground Search and Rescue (GSAR), and often delegated to the police service of jurisdiction.

    Ontario Provincial Parks follows under the Ontario Government

    But I have a different opinion of this as sometimes the cost of the search and rescue could of been avoided for a lot different reasons.
If you go skiing and ski around to avoid the closed trails or into a marked danger zone. If you go kayaking or canoeing and go beyond your reasonable skill level and not look at weather forecasts, or not have the safety gear required. If you take your cat hiking on the edge of a cliff and the cat wanders off and you decide to rescue the cat and get stuck on the side of a cliff and need rescue from the crew from Trenton. You ask a ton of questions about paddling a famous white water canoe route, and declare yourself experts after a few on line videos and take off go paddling on your first canoe trip. dump your canoe, lose all you gear, but have the trusty satephone, requesting rescue, even when other campers told you they would come and get you in the day light. But you push panic and call 9-1-1 and no the helicopter crew is not going to drop off you off at the parked car so you can drive home. Paddling into the sunset on your unicorn floating toy into a shipping channel on the great lakes.

Those are examples I think that come to my mind and there should be a bill of some sort for this sort of rescue.

If your business has a false alarm on the fire panel, or burglary alarm you can expect a bill in the mail from your city or town for services.

Poor planning, or no planning and getting into trouble puts the rescuers in harms way.

Kayaker requiring rescue because he took on Lake Superior and did not realize he did not have the skill level, and ignored the weather forecast and dumped his boat in 5 foot waves, OPP had to come rescue him, only thing that saved him was his GPS locator.

Taking your cat hiking in the woods off leash? Then following the cat out on the edge of a cliff ( 300 feet down or up depending how you look at it)
White water canoeing and going down the river after sunset . That one is a no brainer.

Skiing into an out of bound area just to cut thru some fresh virgin powder snow and leave your marks behind.

All of these rescues should have a bill attached, even a token bill to say look stupid adventurer you need some experience before you go back out there.

Some skills are required for outdoor adventures, and those basics need to be taught and learned before they leave. Not saying they need expert map reading, or compass skills, ( GPS takes care of that). Canoe, kayaking, and boating all require some knowledge before you hit the water. Day trips and lots of them before you tackle water where you cannot see the shore line with the naked eye.
Doing a rescue of someone or something else should come with the question how much risk am I putting myself in to save this person. ( I would do anything to rescue a child but not the same risk to save my cat) before I need to be rescued.

The DIY videos have changed the way we live. made some things more easy to do, but the watcher does not get to see the skills learned and practiced to get to the level where they are able to make a real DIY video showing the skills, it was not learned in 10 minutes.

Rescue fees should be charged, enough of a fee to make you think twice before you head out and put yourself in harms way just to answer the call of having fun and living the wild life.


Sorry if I rambled but the unnecessary rescues that could of be prevented really get to me. But does give me something to laugh at and be thankful it was me out there.

Been on that cliff, been on that river, never skied on an out of bounds area, never paddled a great lake ( but on the bucket list)
 
Within Canada, SAR activities span a multitude of jurisdictions:

Including municipal.

HUSAR is a joint unit of more than 60 Toronto firefighters, police officers and paramedics that responds to various disasters at the municipal, provincial or national level.

Toronto is one of only three cities, including Calgary and Vancouver that has this type of unit.

FormerHorseGuard said,
Rescue fees should be charged, enough of a fee to make you think twice before you head out and put yourself in harms way just to answer the call of having fun and living the wild life.

Even just going for an elevator ride in our town can be expensive.

Fee for Fire Apparatus response to release or assist individual in elevator that is a non‐emergency incident: Per Fire Vehicle $543.03
 
this topic comes up every now and again. One problem with instituting a policy of sending out invoices is it may discourage people from calling for help when they truly need it. And what if the call for assistance is from a third party? There was a bit of a flap a few years ago when a motorist on a provincial highway was billed for fire department response who were called by another motorist, travelling in the opposite direction, thought his car was on fire when it was actually steam from overheating. The FD doesn't care - they rolled and expected to recover their cost per provincial policy.

As a society, do we create some kind of bureaucracy to assess the knowledge, skills and abilities of those who want to venture off their property and issue some kind or approval or, conversely, some kind of bureaucracy to assess the circumstances and background of a rescue to see if an invoice is in order? I can assure you law enforcement would have neither the staffing nor inclination to enter into such an investigation for GSAR incidents.

I like the idea of 'mock invoices', even for such services as healthcare. In Canada, we have little idea how much procedures cost, but I fear the mere cost of the exercise would be prohibitive.
 
There was a bit of a flap a few years ago when a motorist on a provincial highway was billed for fire department response who were called by another motorist, travelling in the opposite direction, thought his car was on fire when it was actually steam from overheating. The FD doesn't care - they rolled and expected to recover their cost per provincial policy.

Our city Fire Dept. charges non-city residents $543.03 per fire vehicle.
$271.51 each additional half hour, per fire vehicle.

Doesn't matter who the Call Originator is. Quite often there are multiple callers for a single incident.

As I recall, they typically sent two fire vehicles for any jobs on 400-series highways. Block lanes for scene safety.

And, once they are "wheels rolling" from station, they can not be cancelled en route to any scene.
Haven't seen that S.O.P. in writing, but that is my understanding.

Probably shouldn't say this on here, but I wish I had a nickel for every time a police officer ( or TTC official, security, store manager, bystander, know-it-all do-gooder, etc. etc... ) said to a patient, "Go with these guys. It's free!"

Just dropped the AS5A in the tray at the receiving hospital.

Then wait to write the Incident Report explaining - when the inevitible complaint came in - why we told the patient they were getting a free ride.

But, we didn't! :)


 
Its much like healthcare, you start denying it/forcing people to pay for it on the basis of ‘you made your decision’, where does it end?
 
Its much like healthcare, you start denying it/forcing people to pay for it on the basis of ‘you made your decision’, where does it end?

already happening really, the SCC refused to hear an appeal from multiple people being denied an organ because they refused the covid "vaccine" even after all the data now that suggests it's pretty much useless.
 
already happening really, the SCC refused to hear an appeal from multiple people being denied an organ because they refused the covid "vaccine" even after all the data now that suggests it's pretty much useless.
Bullshit answer......its been like that forever for transplants and if you didn't know that you live under a rock.

Tell the liver folks you won't stop drinking and see if you make the list.....nice underhanded agenda push though.
 
I deal with false alarms more often than I want to admit to due to work in Property Management and Building Operations ( who knew I would end up in Building Operations) The OFS crews know me by name and my nickname kind of funny.

Story 1
I had a fire panel issue last month. Low pressure switch was defective on the dry sprinkler system ( sprinkler system full of air under pressure, when the sprinkler head pops, air releases and water flows. It is used to keep an area dry in case of leaks etc).

Fire panel went to into alarm and the monitoring company called the fire department. 3 pumpers, 3 aerial ladders and 1 Suv and 1 Deputy Chiefs SUVs responded. ( Large building and full of paper for a printing operation ) The first pumper crew came ( called me by name ) they turned back the trucks that were not required . Search of the building, no fire, they left I waited for the sprinkler company to come for emergency repairs.


Story 2

Sprinkler in a wet area in the deep cold temperature we had this winter a sprinkler line froze and broke, once it thawed and the water started to flow fire department came and investigated, 10 trucks were called out. Pumpers, ladders, suvs etc
Shut down the water and clean up of the flooded spaces

Story 3

Massive flood and it took out the main electrical room of this building, 412 V service at 4000 amps, water 2 feet deep in the electrical room at one point.

Fire panel and smoke detectors went off hours later, I called the fire department ( I saw the smoke) and they sent over 13 trucks

Once they searched and found no fire, they turned back equipment.

Because the system worked and there was no fire there was no bill for services.

If there was bill for every time they rolled out people would be more reluctant to call for help.

There is already a fee for ambulance services in Ontario ( less than 100 bucks you are billed, my parents have paid a few )

I do not think they should charge for services required for everyday life.
car accidents ( insurance covers this in some polices ) fire and building insurance covers these costs

If an adventurer decides to go out and go cliff jumping and ends up in a tree, or in power lines ( US Paratrooper, was doing a jump as part of duty was blown into high voltage lines , and lived. The local power company sent him the repair bill. I forget the name of the book, in the 60s or 70s , his SGT Major and the CO took care of the power company) .


If the adventurer takes his boat out on the lake and it starts taking on water. If they decide they need rescue, they should get a token bill, not for the complete service but some of it.

You ski under the barrier and end in an avalanche and or you are the cause of the avalanche and require rescue, you should get a bigger bill.

Part of your Park fees is suppose to pay into an insurance like fund to help pay for the search and rescue in the Parks.

Day to day life should not have any more bills than what we are already taxed, but once you step out of the everyday life, a fee or insurance plan to help pay for rescues might be the answer. I would pay $50 a year into a rescue fund, because someday I might need it.

But the part that drives most people crazy is the abuse of the system and systems in Canada. Only 1 taxpayer at all levels.
 
This explains fire service billing for residents, and non-residents, in our town.

YMMV in other municipalities.

 
The fees for fire services provided by municipal departments on provincial highways is set by the province. The latest I could find was $488.40/truck/hour in 2022. I think the "non-resident" reference in the Toronto fee schedule refers to, for example, me visiting Toronto and getting involved in a collision on a city street. The fire service invoices the MTO which in-turn invoices the vehicle owner/insurance company.
 
Back
Top