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Corporal Punishment

Wow, I didn't realize things were that cushy for prisoners in the Federal system. It would be nice to think that if they put criminals into this sort of enviorment they would re-rehabilitate. I doubt it though. And as for rights? I'll save my sympathy for their victims.

Mike
 
Ghost778 said:
Good post lexi. Considering your age and your peers/friends you probably have one of the best insights to the mentality of young offenders from their level. (Not to say your one of them of course)



With the exception of education (Why should criminals get a free education and *I* have to pay for it?) i don't think many people will disagree with what prisoners should get. Everyone deserves protection, food, shelter and health care.

That said how many of us enjoyed a 'Spa day' at work recently?
Prisons with golf courses, tennis and squash?
Come on. When someone breaks the law they should be sent to jail to be punished.Going to jail IS the punishment. Were out here living out life and their behind bars. The punishment should be them sitting behind bars while the rest of the world gets to spend time golfing or playing tennis or doing whatever.   They shouldn't have access to this stuff (probably for free) while in jail. Thats not punishment OR rehabilitation.

Dogs intimidate the prisoners? Big deal. How about the PEOPLE that these criminals intimidated while breaking into their homes, robbing them, raping them or murdering their family.  

I just don't think i'll be able to sleep at night knowing a murderer or rapist is being intimidated by a dog searching for drugs. Thats inhumane.


Because lack of education is one of larger reasons that people commit crimes in the first place. There is a book called "Men of Blood" that covers this point. So if we just punish and kick them out we become the cause for them to reoffend. Its a catch .22........as for spa days......well those can't be justified.

Heres ANOTHER good story.

There was a certain institution in southeren Alberta where the officers had a BBQ on the roof and would BBQ during their shifts. The offender reps complained that this was cruel and unusual punishment and tortured the offenders, SO the suits quickly seized the BBQ and told the officers that they had to eat from the offender run kitchen or pack a lunch. Unfortunately the lunch room was not equiped with a microwave so for several mos the officers ate cold lunches while the offenders enjoyed hot meals.......really the stories are endless..... one institution the offenders were provided a beer each if they didnt riot....to be fair though they were in plastic bottles and that warden did lose her job.......

Jail isnt sunshine there is an ass load of violence and rape and drugs...so to be fair its not worth the "free education"
 
Jail isnt sunshine there is an ass load of violence and rape and drugs...so to be fair its not worth the "free education"

I sure hope not!!

Mike
 
As far as I see it, the Law is the system of rules that guarantees the safety of the Tribe.

If one violates the Law, then he has violated the foundation of the social ties between members of the Tribe.  He has forfeited his rights to this guarantees and is no longer one of the Tribe until retribution has been meted out (jail time, corporal punishment, whatever...as long as it is seen to be just and fair) or he is exiled.

If any of you have a different philosophy on the notion of Crime and Punishment, I'm all ears....
 
The system of punishment has been abandoned for some time. Its not even uttered in courts or even in the correctional system any more. Everything from the moment an offender steps into an institution is designed to rehabilitate not punish. The worst the system does is "prison charges" for crimes commited in house. And sometimes these are some very serious crimes. In these incidents the ramifications most certainly do not suit the crime.

However the system of punishment has been abandoned for good reason. It never corrected any of its subjects. It was a place for them to get various illnesses and die. Unless they survived long enough to get out and offend again because they had no skills and no hope.

The only successful path I can see is penal colonies. I know it sounds absolutely medival but the only positive example of any correctional style is Austrailia. Although I have to admit I dont know much about the history of the country besides its former status as a colony for british criminals.

Baffin Island anyone?
 
My  big irritation with the current correctional system is that it seems that doing a stint up the river now-a-days is just an interlude between crimes on the outside. That interlude gives not just three hots and cot but also the usual outrages like spa days and free rec/entertainment. On top of that, it seems to me that this time also gives them a chance to compare notes and share stories of how they have aggravated/offended/terrorized/assaulted society and it's regular members. It's like giving them one big "professional conference", with ALL EXPENSES PAID. Think about it, it's like a hospital sending some of it's surgeons to a big health care conference, where they can mingle and learn from each other to make them better surgeons. The way "corrections" (and I have some heartburn over that nomenclature) works today, is building a better criminal. Not only do they learn to be more proficient, they also get to network, to better connect and build on to exisiting criminal enterprises.
Looking at all the amenities given these scum, you have to come to realize that the senior management at CSC considers crime and the resultant prison time as a vocational and lifestyle choice. We have already lost the battle on this one folks.
The only real remedy to this travesty is one that no pussy liberal is willing to swallow. Complete and utter isolation, with the only human contact being for delivery of basic sustenance nutrition. If they don't have a high school education, then fine, give them the books and the ciriculum, let them teach themselves. Deprivation of human contact is one of the worst things we ever so social monkeys can endure, so let's use it in our favour when dealing with those who willfully and braggingly not just break but destroy the social contract. Thirty plus years of "correction" have failed miserably, so let's go back to shock and awe, fear and terror. And for the worst of the lot, the kiddie molestors and remorseless predators and drug kingpins, then by all means, let's use some of that empty northern real estate, after it's been stocked full of polar bears and wolves, and all other manner of hungry meat eater. If some members of society are incapable of living by the most basic tenant of suffer not unto the children, then back to the cold embrace of that bitch Mother Nature and good old Darwinian survival of the biggest and baddest you go.

Oh and Infanteer, for the roof, I say a catapult. A really big catauplt.
 
Marauder,

You must be wearing the shirt right now.  Your analogy on what jail is now to the common criminal is dead on!  Its just part of the life-style and like you said live free and let the interest accrue. :rage:
 
Ok Hands up who wants to see Marauder as head of CSC or better yet Minister of justice with Bruce as Head of CSC.

Good points there. Our present system is kind of like the little wheel in the cage. The hamster died a long time ago and no one noticed so the wheel just keeps on going round and round to no purpose.
 
Then shoot em' all. Prisons were run like that in the past and the men just sat around died slowly. Caught disease and went mad. I can't believe that me of all people has to defend CSC. I cant stand them but what your suggesting is wrong as well. Middle ground people. Or saomeday you may find yourself at the mercy of a system without exactly that....mercy.

I agree there has to be "punishment" brought back to the system. I agree that we arent hard enough. I think they should all be working in chain gangs working on highways and picking up litter. Or like in the old days where they would sew the north west mounted police uniforms. They cant have everything for free like they do now.......

Secondly they arent taking Joe Murder to the spa. There are different levels of offenders. And rec is encouraged becuase its an energy release.

Id love to see you guys run an institution as well. It would be intresting to see the well being of the correctional officers after years of treating human beings like that. I can see all kinds of conditions steming from watching indivduals waste away like that, and for the record while the new "correction style" doesnt seem effective the "shock and awe" style was an even bigger failure.....thats why we have the system we have now.
 
Aaron White said:

Secondly they arent taking Joe Murder to the spa. There are different levels of offenders. And rec is encouraged becuase its an energy release.


Sorry....It was Jill Murder.

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/TorontoSun/Editorial/home.html

"Nail files for inmates? Great idea
So, Corrections Canada officials are now complaining about "confusion" in shocking reports about a "spa day" held at an Ontario women's prison, to which some of our most notorious female criminals were invited.

Their complaints are staggeringly beside the point.

As the Sun's Kim Bradley and Brett Clarkson reported yesterday, the feds insist murderers Marcia Dooley (who helped her husband kill his young son Randall in a horrendous case of child abuse) and Mary Taylor (co-killer, with a girlfriend, of Toronto Police Const. Bill Hancox) did not sign up for the special event at their prison, as originally reported by the National Post.

What's more, Corrections staff maintain that the day, which reportedly included a harpist, tea on fine china, pedicures, manicures and aromatherapy, was not about "pampering," but about boosting the inmates' hygeine and self-esteem.

Again, they simply don't get it.

First of all, it matters little that Dooley and Taylor didn't attend -- what's galling is that they had the chance.

Second, however Corrections spins the details of this particular event, it's hardly the first case of hardened criminals being awarded offensive perks behind bars.

Indeed, the "spa day" at Grand Valley Institution reportedly coincided with an inmate barbecue. The Sun has reported numerous scandalous inmate parties at institutions across the country -- which included likes of Karla Homolka and other sex offenders. Each time, the public is outraged, politicians promise a probe -- and Corrections merely sticks to its line that such perks are all about rehabilitation and preparing criminals for normal life.

Well, the public isn't stupid. But the feds don't get that either. Nor do they seem to get the basic problem here:

Dooley and Taylor are vicious killers. They've been sentenced to "life" in prison with no parole for more than a decade. This is their punishment, such as it is. It's bad enough that the price of a child's or a cop's life is so cheap -- but Corrections' rush to buff and polish these women and push them back into society is simply sickening.

Over the weekend, Toronto Police Chief Julian Fantino rightly called for a meeting with Deputy PM and Public Safety Minister Anne McLellan for an explanation.

But just last month, when cops from across the country confronted McLellan on similar concerns about our "Club Fed" prisons, she retorted: "I do not accept the 'Club Fed' designation," adding that time in prison is never pleasant.

We're sure. All that harp music can be downright painful.

And another thing ... "




 
Can't dispute that as being ridiculous. But its all in CSC's attitude towards women offenders. Anyone ever wonder why women offenders cost twice what male offenders do?

Again though the blame also rests with the supremem court of canada and what rights they guarntee prisoners. Such as the right for an inmate to have a shiv when he feels his life is in danger......I won't dipute what you just read but I do feel ,and anyone who is objective about this issue will as well, that the tone of that article was inflamatory. I'd really need a more detailed explanation of what went on. Womens institutions run from min to max offenders so I would be willing to bet that 90% of those who attended the so called spa day were min-med offenders. Again Im not on CSC side.I cant stand them. And that article does upset me but "kill em all" isnt the answer.

Although I do believe in capital punishment. Im not panty-waisted-lilly wagger,
 
Can't dispute that as being ridiculous. But its all in CSC's attitude towards women offenders. Anyone ever wonder why women offenders cost twice what male offenders do? 

Please enlighten us.
 
It has to do with the amount of programs offered. I was actually wondering if one of the guys here knew. I know only a small amount regarding it. But I know that a male costs about 60000 and a female costs about 110000. Im sure someone will be very forthcoming about the exact numbers, This is a large difference and sure would like to have someone justify that to me.....
 
George Wallace said:
Aaron White said:


First of all, it matters little that Dooley and Taylor didn't attend -- what's galling is that they had the chance.
What the fuck is this ?? You're in JAIL. If I say it's spa day, YOU WILL GO AND ENJOY IT !!! Geez... there are too many liberties in those jails.  ;)
As for some of the nut-cases mentionned on this thread: the solution is retro-active abortion.
 
Jungle said:
What the fuck is this ?? You're in JAIL. If I say it's spa day, YOU WILL GO AND ENJOY IT !!! Geez... there are too many liberties in those jails.  ;)
As for some of the nut-cases mentionned on this thread: the solution is retro-active abortion.

ROTFLMFAO!!!!!
 
Aaron White said:
It has to do with the amount of programs offered. I was actually wondering if one of the guys here knew. I know only a small amount regarding it. But I know that a male costs about 60000 and a female costs about 110000. Im sure someone will be very forthcoming about the exact numbers, This is a large difference and sure would like to have someone justify that to me.....

Hate to pull ye ol' Juristat, but you are correct.  Reasons are plentiful, one of them being that because there are drastically less female inmates than male, the prisons are more costly to run, and don't remain full, thus increasing costs...  I'm not sure about the programs offered, or if there are any "other" costs, but I'll check with some old crim teachers and see what I can find, if you'd like.

B.N.S.
 
Marauder, outstanding post.  

I hope you consider emailing it to your local paper at the very least.

Cheers,


Matthew.   :salute:
 
What is punishment but the vengence of society of a whole that is seen to be fair?
 
Aaron, I don't think you read what I typed. Either that or you took a page out of the Democrat/Liberal page and just skimmed and then threw out your rightous indignation based on willfully ignorant understanding of what was actually said.
You have to understand, I believe everyone(with qualifiacation) deserves a second chance. Sometimes you just fuck up, sometimes you wind up in a crappy situation on some dark street in the middle of the night. Shit Happens. What offends me, and most other sane Canadians, is how second chances now give way to third, fourth, fifth, and on and on. Prison is no longer a deterrent, and it does not "correct" anyone. Serious and immediate reform is needed. Now let me spell this out. I do not believe that we should take anyone out back after a conviction and tell them to face the ditch and pray to whatever god they have. As much as the continued existence of some asshole rapist or drunken hillbilly who drove his truck into an oncoming family aggreves me to no particular end, I'm not down with the wholesale, systematic, and wanton erasure of human life. I'm no Hitler or Pappa Joe. At the same time, said rapist or drunk driver should not be given what is essentially a validation of their behaviour when they are given free room and board and the chance to socialize with their ilk. Todays prisons take away nothing. Yeah, maybe they can't go outside to interact with their prey anymore, but they can still connect with the outside world and their criminal compatriots via phone, internet, TV, newspaper, whatever. Hell, they are better connected to the outside world than I was when on contract in MEAFORD for fuck sake. It's especially vile for the Hell's Angels and other gangsters to have this access, since they can then still terrorise and victimise other from INSIDE, during what is ostenibly their payment to society for their LAST crime. I understand that nowadays they can pretty much get any drugs they want inside, and I'm sure some of them get conjugal visits. IT'S INSANE.
Any violation against another person, from robbery to homicide, constitutes a gross violation of the most basic of social contracts, You leave me alone and I'll leave you alone. If someone wants to rot their brain on drugs, hey, fill your fucking boots. But given the economics of the drug trade and those who most often engage in it, eventually someone in gonna rob, cheat, steal from, or assault a fellow human to get it. It's all about the spinoffs of human behaviour. My perrsonal belief is that if you in any way shape or form deprive someone else of their personal safety or wellbeing (or human rights to use the new liberal buzzword), you should be punished by society by losing yours, if for no other reason to discourage you from doing it again.
But here's the kicker. Today's socially acceptable form of collective (society's) punishment is prison. But the 21st century prison in Canada does not punish, and worse, it does not deter further breaking of the law.

What I'm advocating, is making prison a deterrent once again. That doesn't involve lashes or starvation or hot pokers. I say deprive the turds of other human contact. As I said before, we're the most social of animals. Leave us alone long enough on our own, and our minds start to run around the inside walls of our psyche like a rat trying to escape a cage sinking into the water. All the personal shit inside out heads that we can normally block out with the white noise of modern society (other people, TV, internet, books, magazines, porn, alcohol, drugs, all that shit) comes to the forefront and demands to be dealt with. Now, the junkie that killed some random grandmother in a home invasion to score a couple of bucks to secure his next joint, or gram, or tab can drown out his feelings about his actions and himselfe for committing them inside the fantasy world of TV, or by sociallizing with other scum who have done the same thing or worse. Take that away, and his punishment is having to relive his actions and come to a full understanding of what a failure and sack of monkey shit he is. Prison should be deprivation of all things but three meals a day, a soft spot to rest on, and a hole in the floor to relieve oneself in.

There is one segment of these assholes that should simply be erased from society though. The Paul Bernardos and Clifford Olsons that society manages to produce need to simply be erased from the genestock and collective societal memory. These sick bastards have no conception of right and wrong, or the pain that another human can live through. Their world, their society, is only those things that can effect them and how they feel and perceive. To them, other humans are just part of the tableau, things to be used. There is no chance of correcting them or making them better. Serial killers and child molesters are simply better off dead. Society has no possible use for them. They are nothing more than AP mines littered through society. When you demine, you mark the mine, and then blow in place. These bastards should be the same way. Once it can be proven that they they are remoresless predators, there is no further recourse than to kill them and remove them as an ongoing threat to the rest of us. Somehow the socialists have steered us away from using common fucking sense with these people. THE BERNARDOES OF THE WORLD CANNOT BE REHABILITATED. Any first year psych student can grasp this, but somehow liberal gutlessness has overtaken our intelligence and basic understanding of the human mind.


Wow, now that should absolve me of the need to rant for a week or two. :evil:
 
Yep, that was a rant alright!! That was a good post with many salient points, and I don't disagree with most of what you say,   but might I suggest that the following part of the post sits dangerously close to the edge of violating some standards of tolerance for this site.   It is a public forum, not a personal "blog", and some people might get the wrong impression about CF members.

I agree the individuals mentioned are predators, and should have faced the death penalty, but they are rotting in jail and in no way should that be construed as "socialist" or "liberal" tolerance of the crimes committed.    

     
Marauder said:
There is one segment of these assholes that should simply be erased from society though. The Paul Bernardos and Clifford Olsons that society manages to produce need to simply be erased from the genestock and collective societal memory. These sick bastards have no conception of right and wrong, or the pain that another human can live through. Their world, their society, is only those things that can effect them and how they feel and perceive. To them, other humans are just part of the tableau, things to be used. There is no chance of correcting them or making them better. Serial killers and child molesters are simply better off dead. Society has no possible use for them. They are nothing more than AP mines littered through society. When you demine, you mark the mine, and then blow in place. These bastards should be the same way. Once it can be proven that they they are remoresless predators, there is no further recourse than to kill them and remove them as an ongoing threat to the rest of us. Somehow the socialists have steered us away from using common ******* sense with these people. THE BERNARDOES OF THE WORLD CANNOT BE REHABILITATED. Any first year psych student can grasp this, but somehow liberal gutlessness has overtaken our intelligence and basic understanding of the human mind.
Wow, now that should absolve me of the need to rant for a week or two. :evil:
 
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