Constructing the CCG Hero class [Merged]

[Colin Parkinson]

One thing I have noted over the years is that the West Coast and East Coast CCG do everything differently and both will tell you that the other is wrong.


edit: I only did one deep sea ODAS deployment. Basically the workboat towed the buoy away from the ship, with the anchor over the side on a quick release. Once all the mooring line was payed out, the anchor was released and as soon as the felt the buoy being pulled the boat released the buoy. Most of our buoy deployments were 40-120' using a 3 ton serrated anchor and chain.

 

[chrisf]

One thing I have noted over the years is that the West Coast and East Coast CCG do everything differently and both will tell you that the other is wrong.

Atlantic region and Newfoundland region did everything different and both said the other was wrong...

You can imagine how it went when they merged a few years ago....

The only real consistency across the organization is that they're all out to lunch on a many things

 

[jollyjacktar]

Atlantic region and Newfoundland region did everything different and both said the other was wrong...

You can imagine how it went when they merged a few years ago....

The only real consistency across the organization is that they're all out to lunch on a many things

So, no different than the navy then.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Actually, a lot different than the Navy.

To understand the Canadian Coast Guard, and I am sorry to be this blunt, you have to understand that you are fundamentally dealing with a bunch of merchant ships manned by a bunch of merchant seaman, who to make matters worse are civil servants.

When I served in the Navy in Quebec city, one of my friend was the Engineering Mate on the Norman McLeod (one of the two alternating one). That was his civil service job. It was his - no rotation to shore jobs, posting to "headquarters ' or change in posting - until he decided to retire or until he elected to apply for a different job in the civil service.

The qualifications that the Coast Guard officers are given are merchant seaman certificates and they are free to go and use them onboard any other merchant ship. Since there is no "centralized" training system and they are merchant seaman, there are no orders or regulations or other similar document that would standardize anything across the whole Coast Guard and each ship's crew is free to do things and use method for operating that they will, so long as they are compatible with good seamanship practices in the general merchant world.

 

[chrisf]

The qualifications that the Coast Guard officers are given are merchant seaman certificates and they are free to go and use them onboard any other merchant ship. Since there is no "centralized" training system and they are merchant seaman, there are no orders or regulations or other similar document that would standardize anything across the whole Coast Guard and each ship's crew is free to do things and use method for operating that they will, so long as they are compatible with good seamanship practices in the general merchant world.

Quite accurate.

Any consistency within a region is only due to circulation of personnel within a region over a long period.

The equipment used isn't standardized either, there may be procurement of some items nationally, but after that, much of it is bought by region, or by individual vessel...

For example, at construction, each of the 1100 class bouy tenders were roughly the same, at least their major systems were the same, but after 30+ years of refits, they're all well diverged, as the refits are all managed at the regional level.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The Black and Pearkes were roughly the same, but the East Coast preferred a aft leading crane and the West want a forward leading crane, which affected the height of the superstructure. When they wanted to transfer ships from West to East they discovered that the Marine Certificates issued by the CCG College had no international standard, quite embarrassing. They ended up having to get the certification for the college done and I think they had to hire a Master to be on the ship to sail it through the Panama Canal. The Norm McLeod came out here and according to people working on her, she was in terrible shape, asbestos was flaking off her pipes and ceiling, the refit was cancelled and she was sold off after sitting at the dock. Torn apart and rebuilt as a mega yacht. The West coast got screwed on that deal. 

 

[jollyjacktar]

Actually, a lot different than the Navy.

I was being more tongue in cheek than anything else.  As the East and West coast each think they're doing it right and the other guys are wrong.  We may be not as extreme as the CG but we do have some bi-polar tendencies too.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Not good, can't imagine why it's been out of service this long?

https://buyandsell.gc.ca/procurement-data/tender-notice/PW-MD-021-26497

2. Definition of the requirement

o The CCGS Ann Harvey has been out of service since April 2015, leaving a large service gap in CCGs operational mandate in the North Atlantic. The purpose of this contract is to refit the vessel back into operating condition and allow it to return to full service as rapidly as possible.
o The Canadian Coast Guard has a requirement for the drydocking, engine installation and limited refit of the CCGS Ann Harvey. The working period for the drydocking is January 18, 2018 to June 15, 2018.  The CCGS Ann Harvey is presently a dead ship.  The vessel has no means of propulsion or working controls to operate the vessel to travel to any other port under its own power.  The drydocking will include the installation of three new engines, a new propulsion control system, a new bow thruster, a new sewage treatment system, hull coating. The refit will also include selected regulatory work and certification requiring drydocking (pulling and inspecting the tail shafts, seals, stern tubes, propellers, rudder) and miscellaneous regulatory surveys of the sea bays, sea chests, void spaces; fire prevention system/pumps.
o The current drydocking schedule for the CCGS Ann Harvey is facilitated by the arrival of the propulsion engines to be installed, allowing the vessel to return to operational service. Moving the vessel to an alternate location would, in its present condition, require a heavy lift transfer since CCG considers a tow in the North Atlantic along the Grand Banks of NL during the winter season too large of a risk for the asset, and CCG will not permit the towing of the vessel in the timeline required by this contract. Further to this, due to scheduled alongside repair work before and after the above stated work period, the vessel is not available for a tow outside of the timeline of this contract.

3. Criteria for assessment of the Statement of Capabilities (Minimum Essential Requirements)

o Any interested supplier must demonstrate by way of a statement of capabilities that its product/equipment/system (as appropriate) meets the following requirements:

1. Operating shipyard, equipped with steel plate cutting, and steel fabricating capabilities to support the required work.
2. The shipyard must be equipped with a certified drydock or certified floating dock capable of drydocking the CCGS Ann Harvey for the working period (January 18 2017 to June 15, 2018)
3. The Contractor must possess CSA W47.1, Certification for Companies for Fusion Welding of Steel (Minimum Div 2) or equivalent.
4. The supplier must be willing to accept full care and custody of the vessel from CCGS Base St. Johns to their facility, and assume all liability for the vessel while in their custody.
5. Vessel transfer and work scope would have to be completed within the time frame noted above
6. As part of their Statement of Capabilities, the shipyard will be required to include in their costing:
a.  a naval architect to develop a docking plan (including blocking plan) to safely dock and undock the vessel in their dry dock
b. the cost of completing the scope of work described above,
c. the cost of transferring the vessel to their facility.
7. As noted above, shipyards interested in submitting a Statement of Capabilities would be required to include in their costing a heavy lift vessel transfer to their facility (with all applicable insurance coverage).

4. Applicability of the trade agreement(s) to the procurement

o This procurement is subject to the following trade agreement:
      The Canadian Free Trade Agreement (CFTA)

5. Set-aside under the Procurement Strategy for Aboriginal Business
            Not applicable

6. Comprehensive Land Claims Agreement(s):
            Not applicable

7. Justification for the Pre-Identified Supplier

o The pre-identified supplier is the closest shipyard to the CCG Base in St. Johns, with the infrastructure required to drydock the vessel. It would not require the vessel to leave the safety of its home port.

8. Government Contracts Regulations Exception(s)

The following exception(s) to the Government Contracts Regulations is (are) invoked for this procurement under subsection subsection 6(c), and (d)

    6 Notwithstanding section 5, a contracting authority may enter into a contract without soliciting bids where
          6(c) the nature of the work is such that it would not be in the public interest to solicit bids;
          6(d) only one person is capable of performing the contract.


9. Exclusions and/or Limited Tendering Reasons
            Not applicable

10. Ownership of Intellectual Property
      Not applicable.

11. Period of the proposed contract or delivery date

o The estimated drydocking and work period for CCGS Ann Harvey is between January 18 2018 and June 15, 2018. 

 

[chrisf]

Not good, can't imagine why it's been out of service this long?

Because they punched a large hole in it and flooded three compartments, including her antiquated propulsion system.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/ann-harvey-under-tow-on-2-day-journey-to-st-john-s-1.3023084

She and her sister ships already had a mid-life extension planned for around now, she just got pushed to the front of the line.

It's just moving at the speed of government.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Thanks, I forgot about that incident. The 1100 are a good all round design, she be worth fixing.

 

[chrisf]

Thanks, I forgot about that incident. The 1100 are a good all round design, she be worth fixing.

They're good boats, but they're only worth fixing because we're so bad at buying new ones.

The scope of the job on the Harvey is not likely much more than the scope of the midlife will be on her sister ships... another suffered a rather violent generator failure about five years ago... they (the generators) had exceeded the recommended service life from the manufacturer by a number of years... not sure what happened since, but the plan at the time was to run it on two instead of three until the midlife... so they're still in service, still past the end of their life, and they're five years older now.

Tender for generator replacement on all six boats... https://buyandsell.gc.ca/procurement-data/tender-notice/PW-ML-044-26020

Edit: After a little bit of google, looks like ABB will be replacing the propulsion drives...

http://www.abb.ca/cawp/seitp202/b63e2106dadbb404c12581390045dd74.aspx

They make a good, durable, idiot proof drive system... the coast guard makes a good, durable idiot though, and it'll be a night and day change from what they're used to dealing with, so hopefully it'll end well

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Interesting, thanks for all the info, I have been away from the fleet for sometime and lost the pulse.

 

[chrisf]

Interesting, thanks for all the info, I have been away from the fleet for sometime and lost the pulse.

I've been asked a few times if I'd go back.

They may have thought I was joking when I said sure, right after you have a 400% pay raise and the fleet goes dry.

It's certainly an interesting place to work though.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

yea they are struggling to hire out here as well. We had guys from the weather ships when I was in the fleet, those guys were serious alcoholics, on the SAR vessels, drinking was not much of a problem, the buoy tenders were, the Layday system was just introduced as I arrived on the Pearkes and that forced some of them to get a life off of the ship, which was literally their home. I did luck out and get a fabulous Bosun who was great to learn from.

 

[chrisf]

yea they are struggling to hire out here as well. We had guys from the weather ships when I was in the fleet, those guys were serious alcoholics, on the SAR vessels, drinking was not much of a problem, the buoy tenders were, the Layday system was just introduced as I arrived on the Pearkes and that forced some of them to get a life off of the ship, which was literally their home. I did luck out and get a fabulous Bosun who was great to learn from.

From what I understand, alcoholism isn't *as* rampant as it once was...

The *second* time we had an emergency at sea, and we couldn't muster a sober full sober fire team, I said I had enough.

There's policies on the consumption of alcohol, both on and off SAR, but enforcement varies widely depending on the skipper... SAR tasking meant the boat was dry, but practically speaking, it just meant the canteen stopped selling beer, hope you brought enough for yourself.

Purely my opinion, but if they were able to completely clear house of a lot of the existing crew, and reinterview for anyone who wants their job back, it might be a decent spot to work, eliminate the "old school" mentality, and bring in some fresh young keen individuals.

They've opened skipper and chief competitions up to the public since last year, which I think is a good thing, though the downside, they won't get the really talented individuals without opening up the purse strings as well.

Like I said, it's an interesting spot to work at least.

 

[Spencer100]

CCG looking for ice break and such on the St. Lawrence from the private companies

http://www.merx.com/English/SUPPLIER_Menu.Asp?WCE=Show&TAB=1&PORTAL=MERX&State=7&id=428004&src=osr&FED_ONLY=0&ACTION=NEXT&rowcount=2000&lastpage=200&MoreResults=&PUBSORT=2&CLOSESORT=0&IS_SME=Y&hcode=ImOrnv3xu2q%2bC4d7c68Q8A%3d%3d

 

[MarkOttawa]

Good grief!  CCGS Hudson is 54-years old--just buy new vessels wherever built:

Costs pile up from delayed Canadian Coast Guard vessel refit
Coast guard has been forced to charter 3 private vessels at a cost of $2.58 million, excluding tax

The Canadian Coast Guard has been forced to spend more than $2.5 million this fall to charter vessels to carry out at-sea science surveys because a much-delayed refit has left its own research ship unavailable.

Canada's East Coast ocean monitoring program usually takes place on the CCGS Hudson, but the 54-year old vessel is still not ready after a $4-million refit ran six months behind schedule.

In place of the Hudson, the coast guard has been forced to charter three private vessels at a cost of $2.58 million, excluding tax, CBC News has learned.

"Requests for proposals processes were conducted to secure alternative vessels for three zones which have been surveyed every year since 1998," Department of Fisheries and Oceans spokesperson Vance Chow said in a response to CBC News questions about the fallout from the refit.
Vital information on ocean health

The twice-annual surveys collect a wide range of physical, chemical and biological data to measure ocean conditions...


    $4M refit contract for coast guard research vessel under review

    Why Ottawa yanked a Coast Guard ship out of $4M refit

As for the Hudson, it returned to its home port in Halifax one week ago, with the refit still unfinished.

"There is some minor outstanding work required that will be conducted alongside the ship's home port at the Bedford Institute of Oceanography," Chow said.

Lloyd's Register, the U.K.-based marine safety certifier, has given the vessel an interim provisional certificate, which is valid until Jan. 31, 2018...

The CCGS Hudson is now docked at the Bedford Institute of Oceanography in Dartmouth, N.S
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/coast-guard-coasts-delayed-hudson-refit-1.4407288

Mark
Ottawa

 

[MarkOttawa]

Comprehensive piece on CCG's acquistions of new helos (note single pilot)--effectively sole-sourcing glossed over but in any event was almost no public attention/controversy as airfrcraft made by Bell Montreal and CAF procurements are the ones media/pols focus on:

Better, Faster, Stronger: The Canadian Coast Guard’s new helicopter fleet
https://www.verticalmag.com/features/better-faster-stronger-canadian-coast-guards-new-helicopter-fleet/

The Coast Guard base in Shearwater, Nova Scotia, received its 412EPI in June 2017, and pilots have been quick to praise the additional capabilities it provides. Mike Reyno Photo

Mark
Ottawa

 

[MarkOttawa]

These smaller vessels being built by shipyards outside NSS with "infrastructure" money--spreading the pork around but glad something being produced (cost?):

Canadian Coast Guard picks Furuno for new SAR vessel class

The Canadian Coast Guard has selected Furuno to outfit its new Bay class search and rescue vessels.

The 55-foot CCGS Pennant Bay and CCGS Baie De Plaisance are the first of twelve hulls ordered by the CCG, with an option for six more.

CCGS Pennant Bay was built by Hike Metal Products in Wheatley, Ontario, while Baie De Plaisance was built by shipbuilder Chantier-Naval Forillon, Inc. in Gaspe, Quebec.

These new Bay class vessels, all named for Canadian bays, have been commissioned under Canada's Federal Infrastructure Initiative and the 2016-17 Fleet Renewal Plan.

The vessel's new Furuno electronics, including a multi-station NavNet TZtouch network with radar and depth sounder, will assist the CCG in its mission of keeping Canadians and Canadian waterways safe...
http://www.marinelog.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=28078:canadian-coast-guard-picks-furuno-for-new-sar-vessel-class&Itemid=257

Mark
Ottawa

 

[MarkOttawa]

Further to this post,
https://milnet.ca/forums/threads/122642/post-1510147.html#msg1510147

what's going on?

Heddle Marine wins Coast Guard contract months after aborted refit
$4-million exterior overhaul of CCGS Hudson fell months behind schedule and was left incomplete

Questions are being raised about the awarding of another refit contract for the Canadian Coast Guard ship Hudson to the same company behind an aborted refit on the science research ship last year.

"My question is, with the problems with that dry docking, why was this firm allowed to bid on this one?" asked Wayne Snow, the CEO of Dartmouth-based KMS Industries Inc.

Snow was an unsuccessful bidder on a mechanical refit of the Hudson. The work was awarded Friday to Heddle Marine Service Inc (NL).

    Costs pile up from delayed Canadian Coast Guard vessel refit

It's an affiliate of Heddle Marine Services, which carried out the troubled $4-million exterior overhaul of CCGS Hudson in 2017.

That refit was months behind schedule and still unfinished when Public Services and Procurement Canada stepped in in October and towed Hudson out of the Heddle Marine shipyard in Hamilton, Ont.

Why a second chance?

The plan was to complete the refit at a federal facility in nearby Burlington, Ont., but the job was incomplete when Hudson returned to its Halifax home port in November. The vessel was operating under an interim provision certificate by Lloyds Register.

The contract has been under review for months and outstanding issues remain.

    Canadian Coast Guard ship back in Halifax 6 months later than planned

"For us, it's an issue that should be answered by government as to why this company is allowed to come back and bid after not completing the first refit," said Tony Kennedy of Canadian Marine Engineering, another losing bidder.

Kennedy and Snow are competitors, but are united in speaking out on this tender...

The winning bid is for 61 days of mechanical refits while CCGS Hudson is alongside its home base at the Bedford Institute of Oceanography.

Work is supposed to conclude in March, with Hudson available for spring science cruises.

As for the disputed contract at its Hamilton shipyard, Padulo said the company and PSPC are "finalizing" outstanding issues.

"Although there were challenges on both sides, we are working toward an amicable resolution," he said in an email to CBC News.

The federal government has never explained what went wrong with Heddle's 2017 refit nor whether it paid the company the full $4-million contract price. Months of delays had a costly cascading effect, they have admitted.

The Department of Fisheries and Oceans spent $2.5 million in 2017 chartering private vessels for scientific cruises because the Hudson was not available...

Public Services and Procurement Canada did not respond to CBC questions.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/canadian-coast-guard-contracts-refit-ccgs-hudson-1.4486111

Gosh.

Mark
Ottawa