CLS: From Arid CADPAT to Snowshoes

[officerdown]

quote "Canadian troops will soon swap one barren desert for another, as many Afghan veterans deploy to Canada’s Far North late this winter for the first major Arctic exercise after almost 10 years of fighting insurgents in South Asia, according to the new commander of the Canadian army.

About 600 infantrymen based in Quebec and Alberta will be the first to trade Afghan temperatures that can run as high as 60 C for the -40 C that are common during the winter in Canada’s North. It is part of a strategy to keep young soldiers in the army by giving them fresh challenges, said Lt.-Gen. Peter Devlin.

The move also dovetails nicely with the Conservative government’s frequently stated priority to protect the country’s northern frontiers.

“The Arctic may not seem very exciting to older guys because they have done it before, but to the vast majority of the army it will be new,” Lt-Gen. Devlin said after talking up the North in a town hall with frontline troops at a particularly austere forward base in Panjwaii.

“They will have to learn how to wear our winter gear, move in the snow, be in the harness of a toboggan, light a stove outside their tent without burning it down and to do surveillance and sovereignty operations in the Arctic. To a young guy who has not done it before, it is different and with that difference will come a level of excitement.” .... "


I just wanted to add that Afghanistan is in Central Asia, not South Asia.

 

[Shamrock]

This could be a very steep learning curve for our younger NCOs and officers.

Nah, I'm good.  I've got basic winter warfare.  This shit should be simple.

 

[George Wallace]

I just wanted to add that Afghanistan is in Central Asia, not South Asia.

Your Googlefu has failed you.  This is like saying Southern Ontario is Central Ontario.

South Asia, also known as Southern Asia, is the southern region of the Asian continent, which comprises the sub-Himalayan countries and, for some authorities, also includes the adjoining countries on the west and the east. Topographically, it is dominated by the Indian Plate, which rises above sea level as the Indian subcontinent south of the Himalayas and the Hindu Kush. South Asia is surrounded (clockwise, from west) by Western Asia, Central Asia, Eastern Asia, Southeastern Asia and the Indian Ocean. According to the United Nations geographical region, South Asia comprises the countries of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Bhutan, Nepal, Maldives, Afghanistan, Iran and Sri Lanka.

 

[Armymedic]

Guys are bummed over going to wainwright in february... The artic though, god damn. Frostbite, agonizing cold, humping tent groups across the frozen tundra. At least when the 1980s attack we'll be prepared.

WOW.

Do you not watch the news or read a newspaper (either on actual paper or online)?

The next "war for oil" (as our leftist friends tend to call it) and strategic area for the resources that are needed to supply the world's industries will be likely above the Arctic Circle.

We might want to be somewhat prepared to defend our own turf when the 2020s attack.

 

[vonGarvin]

I'll point out (again) that the highest temperature ever recorded in Kandahar was 42 point something degrees.

Of course, that's ambient air temperature, not factoring in things like humidity or the sun hitting you or even reflecting off the road, or in a tank or...


But the press should at least qualify things like that...

 

[gun runner]

It can't be all that bad...I mean really, it will be black half of the year, and the other half is the time to find all the sh*t that went missing during the dark half! i think it is a make work project myself!Cheers.

 

[PuckChaser]

It can't be all that bad...I mean really, it will be black half of the year, and the other half is the time to find all the **** that went missing during the dark half! i think it is a make work project myself!Cheers.

I tend to agree, without the government committing us to a mission after Kandahar, we've got to start planning to do SOMETHING. 30 day survival trips to Alert so we all get SSMs?

 

[gun runner]

They could have picked someplace warmer..like Congo!

 

[Arsenal]

WOW.

Do you not watch the news or read a newspaper (either on actual paper or online)?

The next "war for oil" (as our leftist friends tend to call it) and strategic area for the resources that are needed to supply the world's industries will be likely above the Arctic Circle.

We might want to be somewhat prepared to defend our own turf when the 2020s attack.

I'm well aware of that, I was leaning more towards the type of "training" that will be done up there... We are flexing our muscle in the north, I get it.  For the soldier on the ground all that means is tent routine and freezing our balls off doing jack.

 

[Northern Ranger]

I'm well aware of that, I was leaning more towards the type of "training" that will be done up there... We are flexing our muscle in the north, I get it.  For the soldier on the ground all that means is tent routine and freezing our balls off doing jack.

About the smartest thing said in this thread.  I want troops to learn stuff, bring them up in the summer, build some skills, build some routines, learn the area and learn how to use a map and gps .  When here in the winter it will teach troops how to survive tent routine -50 to 60not much takes place and regardless of the rules, you will refuel and light your stove in a tent when its -40 and the wind is blowing at 50km an hour, its a skill set that needs to get learned.
:yellow:

 

[chrisf]

I tend to agree, without the government committing us to a mission after Kandahar, we've got to start planning to do SOMETHING. 30 day survival trips to Alert so we all get SSMs?

You'd need to do six before you got an SSM. 180 days non-consecutive.

 

[gun runner]

Northern Ranger,well stated,and true..but without a base to return to after training(sorry Alert does not qualify as a base)the walk home will really suck. As a taxpayer I say 'build it( a new base) and they will come', as a member, I say it's about damn time too(for a base in the arctic).Sovereignty is the one thing I never thought of as a kid, because nothing ever happened.And now...well lets start building.Cheers.

 

[OldSolduer]

Nah, I'm good.  I've got basic winter warfare.  This crap should be simple.

You think so? OK..... ;D

 

[PuckChaser]

You'd need to do six before you got an SSM. 180 days non-consecutive.

Oh thats right, the GCS is 30 days.

 

[Franko]

I'm well aware of that, I was leaning more towards the type of "training" that will be done up there... We are flexing our muscle in the north, I get it.  For the soldier on the ground all that means is tent routine and freezing our balls off doing jack.

Well if the training isn't what you want it to be, pipe up and make some suggestions or go further and develop a training plan.

I can't stand it when troops complain about the training, or lack thereof, that they receive on ex and aren't willing to say something except bitch whine and moan about it.

Every time we did winter warfare in any Sqn/ Tp I have ever been in it was excellent and far more interesting than some of the other units due to the fact that the Tpr/ Cpls made suggestions and came up with viable plans. From making snow defensive's (snow crete ) to learning how to survive off the land. Other troops just sat in their tents and whined that they got nothing out of the training.

Regards

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Still-you haven't lived until you have thrown a flaming stove out of a 10 man tent...

Been there..done that!

 

[Shamrock]

About the smartest thing said in this thread.  I want troops to learn stuff, bring them up in the summer, build some skills, build some routines, learn the area and learn how to use a map and gps .  When here in the winter it will teach troops how to survive tent routine -50 to 60not much takes place and regardless of the rules, you will refuel and light your stove in a tent when its -40 and the wind is blowing at 50km an hour, its a skill set that needs to get learned.
:yellow:

Simulation is an effective aid to training, but training in the environment is irreplaceable.  Further, while the troops will learn some valuable lessons in the cold, they aren't the target audience in Level 2 and beyond training.  However, the troops who participated in these exercises may find themselves in higher positions later in life and can apply that knowledge directly or institutionally.

Otherwise, the humor in my previous comment becomes a terrifying reality.

 

[dogger1936]

I've also been on the receiving end of young officers in the warm CP dreaming up great things for cold,tired hungry troops to do out in -30. Unfortunately we didn't have snr NCO's with the professionalism to bring up at the AAR (nevermind while out there) that you CANNOT do that sort of pushing up north. We had 6 dehydration cases multiple frost bites etc (within 4 days in southern Ontario)...all because many officers forgot that water has to be boiled down from ice...and requires time. Tent routine can be exhausting with small numbers of people, etc etc etc.

Snr NCO's have to do their jobs in the north. Which sometimes means saying "NO!" and adding in WHY.

 

[aesop081]

Snr NCO's have to do their jobs in the north. Which sometimes means saying "NO!" and adding in WHY.

In order for many to be able to do that, they have to go up there and experience it first hand. Same goes for junior officers like the ones you mentioned. What a great leadership development oportunity eh ?

 

[dogger1936]

In order for many to be able to do that, they have to go up there and experience it first hand. Same goes for junior officers like the ones you mentioned. What a great leadership development oportunity eh ?

Indeed.Its just a shame that the mentoring aspect of this form of training is near gone. The inexperience and mistakes unfortunately will be worn by the young guys they wish to retain with this type of operation.

Hopefully we get a really good cold winter down here to shake out the cobwebs.