Close Quarter Combat (CQC) [Merged]

[Centurian1985]

in 3RCR, we trained our troops to go 2 on 1 for riot control, prisoner handling, and when attacked.
Unofficially, we trained the troops to pile on in any form of hand-to-gland, by the simple expedient of impromptu dog-piles at any opportunity. Most often occurring when the resident trained gorilla (a blond, blue-eyed gorilla) would proceed to maul someone for giggles. "You just gonna stand there, ****ee? Your buddy's getting his *** kicked! Git in there!"
When we were running rehearsals for a raid, my section was responsible to take someone down in order to inititate. We rehearsed it quite simply: I would put my hand out to shake, as soon as I had his right hand grasped, my partner would blind him with the spotlight he was carrying (okay, blind him and hit him in the face), and the two of us would subdue him. His partner would be taken down by three others in the section by just plain ol' jumpin' him, and puttin' the boots to him. The last two would be providing cover with their firearms.
The age-old tradition of "Let's git 'im" carried over into all of our training. As well as the concept of "Never go anywhere without your fireteam partner." They blend nicely.
This doesn't contradict any of the above posters, but it does show a slightly different perspective, I think.

Actually, I said the most practical way get the help of a buddy when dealing with the situation. While it may not always be a viable option, we're expected and trained to depend on each other despite the adrenaline rush you'd get under contact at any range. Breaking out of hand to hand combat is should be no more complicated then finishing the enemy while in hand to hand combat, but it sure is safer to have a checked out fireteam partner put two in the chest of some angry axe wielding Taliban.
You're assuming that hand to hand combat would occur in a situation where the friendly position is being overrun, or we've just hopped into a soviet trench system. I'd say that a more likely scenario is that you're either trying to capture a specific individual (in which case we have the initiative, and can afford to send two troops to take one guy down), or some Taliban got caught by suprise and is probably isolated from his own gang. Or he's just some lone loony who probably doesn't expect to survive, like the axeman. An entire section getting in hand to hand combat at the same time is a VERY unlikely scenario.
Of course, I'm speculating here. But this is my impression of the situation in our current theatre of operations.

Both are excellent points - I would be willing to modify my points to include acting with a partner if only battlefield actions were the focus.  Unfortunately, self-defence is often also needed off the battle field and away from the partner you trained with. 

 

[paracowboy]

If you want to learn an effective martial art for hand-to-hand, I suggest the martial art of Aikido. It's less about attacks and more about subduing your opponent but once you get good at it, you can defeat just about any other martial art....plus it's the martial art of the samurai...which is just sweet!

didn't read much didja?

 

[Kat Stevens]

If you want to learn an effective martial art for hand-to-hand, I suggest the martial art of Aikido. It's less about attacks and more about subduing your opponent but once you get good at it, you can defeat just about any other martial art....plus it's the martial art of the samurai...which is just sweet! lol
 

    -Cheers

Don't forget  Steven Segal, the deadliest man alive, as long as the bad guys all line up and take their turn, and he has a parking lot to operate in..... ;D

 

[gate_guard]

Talon16,
Actually traditional Japanese jujutsu was the unarmed combat art employed by samurai (kenjutsu was the art of swordsmanship taught to samurai). Aikido and Judo are both founded by individuals who took portions of traditional jujutsu and evolved it into their own respective arts.

First off, enough with the "My system is the best", it's a step away from "My dad can beat up your dad". Personally, any training in any decent combative art is better than nothing. Pick something that you're comfortable with and comes naturally to you.

Another good point brought up by Centurian1985, know when to fight. Your biggest defence is being able to talk yourself out of a fight, it isn't worth it. But, when the time to fight and defend yourself comes, give it 100% until the fight is over. I was told a story by an instructor about a fellow cop who had to use his asp once. The cop struck the assailant numerous times without any real success but was eventually able to subdue and handcuff him. The instructor asked him later "Did you hit him with everything you had?" and of course the guy said no. When the time comes to defend yourself and take control, ever hold back anything.

In regards to the one man versus two man issue, just last week I had to take a guy to the ground and employ various
...ahem...use of force tactics getting him into a proned out handcuffing position. A fellow officer quickly jumped in and also...employed techniques in order to assist me. I had no doubt that I would have eventually been able to do it on my own, but many hands make light work. The moral, always be ready and able to take care of yourself but use whatever resources you have including your fire team partner, the quicker you end the fight the better.

 

[andreit1]

I've been doing karate for 5 years now and in anything, and I mean anything I do, there is a resemblance be it in the stance, range, speed, concentration, etc.
I am proud to say that it has become somewhat second nature and everytime I practice I feel like a million bucks. IMO martial arts are basic to any fighting, long-range, short-range
and should be taught with seriousness in the army.

 

[paracowboy]

IMO martial arts are basic to any fighting, long-range, short-range and should be taught with seriousness in the army.

thanks. We'll work on that. Anything else you want us to do? I mean it'd be best for you to tell us all now while you still know everything, before you actually get in the army and forget it all.

 

[andreit1]

you're right, I shouldn't talk before joining.

 

[paracowboy]

on a serious note, you should give some thought to adding to your own martial arts repertoire. By that I mean, you should look into adding grappling skills, ie judo, jujutsu, or (especially) wrestling. Also, I encourage everyone to do some boxing.

Karate is fine for a base (my first style was Shito-Ryu), but very few McDojos actually teach practical fighting skills. Even if you chose not to actually continue studying any other systems, it would prove benficial to you to learn how to employ the skills you have now against other stylists.

I was fortunate in taking TaeKwan Do from a man who was a combat veteran, and highly skilled in multiple styles. He encouraged us to sample everything we could for those very reasons.

 

[andreit1]

I was interested in taking some MMA but then again, it's not the art that makes the difference, it's how serious you are about your art.
Anyways, I hope there is some sort of course on base.

 

[subfighter]

If you're looking for some fun, forms and fitness, take some martial arts classes.  If you actually want to learn how to fight, give mixed martial arts a try.  If there are no 'total package' typed schools near you,  try to find one of the basic building blocks: Muay Thai, Submission Grappling, Judo/Sambo.  Some bases have no clubs nearby, but have some members with MMA experience that train on their own and learn from each other (Trenton/Pet). 

For anyone in Ottawa, I would recommend checking out any of these schools.  A lot of dudes from work train at each club and I've also personally had my clock cleaned by awesome people repeatedly at each place.  And paid for it, I might add.

www.ronin-mma.com
http://www.thaiboxing-ca.com/
www.oama.ca
www.rus-sambo.com

 

[paracowboy]

never mind. Nothing to see here. I'm a dumbass.

 

[Sig_Des]

For anyone in Ottawa, I would recommend checking out any of these schools.  A lot of dudes from work train at each club and I've also personally had my clock cleaned by awesome people repeatedly at each place.  And paid for it, I might add.

www.ronin-mma.com
http://www.thaiboxing-ca.com/
www.oama.ca
www.rus-sambo.com

Hmm. Ronin MMA is about a 5 minute jog from my place. Might look into it. I was looking into picking up Krav Maga over at teh world Karatefit center, but that's on the other end of the city.

Thanks for the info, sub

 

[gate_guard]

Try a bit of everything and find out what you like, you won't train seriously enough to be good unless you enjoy what you're doing. IMO most martial arts/mma type schools are able to give you decent skills as long as you work at it.

Personally, I am most comfortable using my awesome bo staff skills when it comes down to it...

Oh yeah, I'm sorry but am I the only one who noticed Kal admitting to playing with his mom?

 

[paracowboy]

Personally, I am most comfortable using my awesome bo staff skills when it comes down to it...

Personally, I am most comfortable with the "Let's you and him fight" system of unarmed combat. I have mastered the 6th Animal form of Shaolin: the Turtle.

Now, after reading subfighter's thread again, I owe him an apology. His post was rather informative, and more in the nature of promoting discussion, than I thought when reading it too fast. My bad.

subfighter, I apologize.

We can certainly debate the strengths and weaknesses of various sytems, but for everyone, let's just try to keep the "My sensei can beat up your sifu" stuff out of it.

Getting back to MMA vs McDojos: I like MMA for the same reasons I encourage people to train in boxing and wrestling - you start learning to fight immediately. You don't waste time trying to learn how to be Japanese/Korean/etc. You start getting hit, hitting others right from the get-go.

 

[Kat Stevens]

My preferred style is Ree-Bock... Kick 'im in the goolies as hard as you can, then leg it out of there..... ;D

 

[Samsquanch]

Anyone know what kind of knives are being used now by our boys? Fixed blade or collapsable? Is the small ka-bar good?... 4.5 inch fixed blade I believe. I want to get a good combat knife tried tested and true. Those small bear claws look good as well.
Cheers 

 

[George Wallace]

Anyone know what kind of knives are being used now by our boys? Fixed blade or collapsable? Is the small ka-bar good?... 4.5 inch fixed blade I believe. I want to get a good combat knife tried tested and true. Those small bear claws look good as well.
Cheers 

:

Why bring a Knife to a Gun Fight?

You have been here before, haven't you?  We DO NOT have knives.  We are issued a multi-tool Gerber.  We have a 'cheap' bayonet for our C-7's (C-8's).  We have snow knives for arctic warfare, so that we can cut snow blocks.  We have machetes and axes for cutting follage.  In special cases we have 'Jump knives'.  WE DO NOT HAVE KNIVES FOR KNIFE FIGHTING.

 

[paracowboy]

some guys have $300 dollar "fighting knives" that they have no idea how to employ.
Some have $20 dollar pocket knives because they don't want to lose or break a  $300 dollar "fighting knife" that they have no idea how to employ.
Some don't even have the common sense to carry the issued Gerber multi-tool or bayonet. Then they try to borrow mine.

Most buy a fairly decent folding knife from Spyderco, Cold Steel, etc. For utility purposes. Some will also carry a decent fixed blade as well, but not many. Why bother?

 

[GAP]

There is the occasional situation where a knife is used, but if you looked at all the conflicts lately in total, they would be rare indeed. My K-bar was used to open C-ration tins, slash sandbags we were replacing and other useful misc stuff.

We had the "In Your Own Mind Commandos " who honed their blades razor sharp, only to put it away before the gunny laughed  them out of the hooch..

 

[subfighter]

Sig_Des.  Anytime. 

Paracowboy.  No worries, dude.  We are of the same opinion as to why I would recommend people try MMA as well as why people should not compare individual abilities based on a style of training.

One thing service personnel may wish to keep in mind is that fighting could be considered a vital skillset.  Consider an urban/CQB context where a 'non-lethal' threat is posed.  ROEs may not always allow for a deadly response to a few haymakers (likely never).  It helps that we fight in numbers greatly, though.  You may find a greater level of comfort in this context had you already taken your fair share of shots or grappled a few times (at least); this is not/not always the case though.  Some guys I work with do just fine with raw aggression and strength.  On another note, fights are pretty fun to watch when you have gear flying all over the place.