Chinese Military,Political and Social Superthread
- Thread starter nULL
- Start date
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
So I wonder if it can be said that China is a "True" free market economy since they have no social programs to speak of to sap their spending, and can use almost all of their revenue to basically take over the world financially?
Oh, and line the pockets of a few at the top.
2 billion over bid from Chevron? Holy cow!!
Oh, and line the pockets of a few at the top.
2 billion over bid from Chevron? Holy cow!!
- Reaction score
- 35
- Points
- 530
Zipper said:
The big problem with the Unocal bid is the strategic implication that you have the PRC owning large energy reserves in Thailand, Mayanmar, Bangladesh and Indonesia. Now should the PRC attack Taiwan, what are the odds that any of those nations would be willing to restrict energy exports in protest out of fear of military action by the PRC to secure those assets. This is not to mention the fact that since the PRC plays by "The Art of War" rulebook, it is likely that a good portion of the CNOOC employees deployed to these non-PRC locaitons would be dual-functioning agents of PRC intelligence.
Bottom Line: We have to be aware that they are buying a lot more than reserves when they try to make acquisitions like this....they are buying political control and a large stick with which to threaten the nations in which the reserves are located. In short, sell them Maytag, sell them IBM, but this one crosses the line. I should add that if they want to buy whole companies on world markets, then they should play by the rules and be willing to sell whole companies to foreign interests as well (which they will not do now)....
Matthew.
Gunner
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 11
- Points
- 430
Chinese dragon awakens
By Bill Gertz
The Washington Times
First of two parts
China is building its military forces faster than U.S. intelligence and military analysts expected, prompting fears that Beijing will attack Taiwan in the next two years, according to Pentagon officials.
U.S. defense and intelligence officials say all the signs point in one troubling direction: Beijing then will be forced to go to war with the United States, which has vowed to defend Taiwan against a Chinese attack.
China's military buildup includes an array of new high-technology weapons, such as warships, submarines, missiles and a maneuverable warhead designed to defeat U.S. missile defenses. Recent intelligence reports also show that China has stepped up military exercises involving amphibious assaults, viewed as another sign that it is preparing for an attack on Taiwan.
"There's a growing consensus that at some point in the mid-to-late '90s, there was a fundamental shift in the sophistication, breadth and re-sorting of Chinese defense planning," said Richard Lawless, a senior China-policy maker in the Pentagon. "And what we're seeing now is a manifestation of that change in the number of new systems that are being deployed, the sophistication of those systems and the interoperability of the systems."
China's economy has been growing at a rate of at least 10 percent for each of the past 10 years, providing the country's military with the needed funds for modernization.
The combination of a vibrant centralized economy, growing military and increasingly fervent nationalism has transformed China into what many defense officials view as a fascist state.
"We may be seeing in China the first true fascist society on the model of Nazi Germany, where you have this incredible resource base in a commercial economy with strong nationalism, which the military was able to reach into and ramp up incredible production," a senior defense official said.
For Pentagon officials, alarm bells have been going off for the past two years as China's military began rapidly building and buying new troop- and weapon-carrying ships and submarines.
The release of an official Chinese government report in December called the situation on the Taiwan Strait "grim" and said the country's military could "crush" Taiwan.
Earlier this year, Beijing passed an anti-secession law, a unilateral measure that upset the fragile political status quo across the Taiwan Strait. The law gives Chinese leaders a legal basis they previously did not have to conduct a military attack on Taiwan, U.S. officials said.
The war fears come despite the fact that China is hosting the Olympic Games in 2008 and, therefore, some officials say, would be reluctant to invoke the international condemnation that a military attack on Taiwan would cause.
Army of the future
In the past, some defense specialists insisted a Chinese attack on Taiwan would be a "million-man swim" across the Taiwan Strait because of the country's lack of troop-carrying ships.
"We left the million-man swim behind in about 1998, 1999," the senior Pentagon official said. "And in fact, what people are saying now, whether or not that construct was ever useful, is that it's a moot point, because in just amphibious lift alone, the Chinese are doubling or even quadrupling their capability on an annual basis."
Asked about a possible Chinese attack on Taiwan, the official put it bluntly: "In the '07-'08 time frame, a capability will be there that a year ago we would have said was very, very unlikely. We now assess that as being very likely to be there."
Air Force Gen. Paul V. Hester, head of the Pacific Air Forces, said the U.S. military has been watching China's military buildup but has found it difficult to penetrate Beijing's "veil" of secrecy over it.
While military modernization itself is not a major worry, "what does provide you a pause for interest and concern is the amount of modernization, the kind of modernization and the size of the modernization," he said during a recent breakfast meeting with reporters.
China is building capabilities such as aerial refueling and airborne warning and control aircraft that can be used for regional defense and long-range power projection, Gen. Hester said.
It also is developing a maneuverable re-entry vehicle, or MARV, for its nuclear warheads. The weapon is designed to counter U.S. strategic-missile defenses, according to officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity. The warhead would be used on China's new DF-31 long-range missiles and its new submarine missile, the JL-2.
Work being done on China's weapons and reconnaissance systems will give its military the capability to reach 1,000 miles into the sea, "which gives them the visibility on the movement of not only our airplanes in the air, but also our forces at sea," Gen. Hester said.
Beijing also has built a new tank for its large armed forces. It is known as the Type 99 and appears similar in design to Germany's Leopard 2 main battle tank. The tank is outfitted with new artillery, anti-aircraft and machine guns, advanced fire-control systems and improved engines.
The country's air power is growing through the purchase of new fighters from Russia, such as Su-30 fighter-bombers, as well as the development of its own fighter jets, such as the J-10.
Gen. Hester compared Chinese warplanes with those of the former Soviet Union, which were less capable than their U.S. counterparts, but still very deadly.
"They have great equipment. The fighters are very technologically advanced, and what we know about them gives us pause for concern against ours," he said.
Missiles also are a worry.
"It is their surface-to-air missiles, their [advanced] SAMs and their surface-to-surface missiles, and the precision, more importantly, of those surface-to-surface missiles that provide, obviously, the ability to pinpoint targets that we might have out in the region, or our friends and allies might have," Gen. Hester said.
The advances give the Chinese military "the ability ... to reach out and touch parts of the United States -- Guam, Hawaii and the mainland of the United States," he said.
To better deal with possible future conflicts in Asia, the Pentagon is modernizing U.S. military facilities on the Western Pacific island of Guam and planning to move more forces there.
The Air Force will regularly rotate Air Expeditionary Force units to Guam and also will station the new long-range unmanned aerial vehicle known as Global Hawk on the island, he said.
It also has stationed B-2 stealth bombers on Guam temporarily and is expected to deploy B-1 bombers there, in addition to the B-52s now deployed there, Gen. Hester said.
Projecting power
China's rulers have adopted what is known as the "two-island chain" strategy of extending control over large areas of the Pacific, covering inner and outer chains of islands stretching from Japan to Indonesia.
"Clearly, they are still influenced by this first and second island chain," the intelligence official said.
The official said China's buildup goes beyond what would be needed to fight a war against Taiwan.
The conclusion of this official is that China wants a "blue-water" navy capable of projecting power far beyond the two island chains.
"If you look at the technical capabilities of the weapons platforms that they're fielding, the sea-keeping capabilities, the size, sensors and weapons fit, this capability transcends the baseline that is required to deal with a Taiwan situation militarily," the intelligence official said.
"So they are positioned then, if [Taiwan is] resolved one way or the other, to really become a regional military power as well."
The dispatch of a Han-class submarine late last year to waters near Guam, Taiwan and Japan was an indication of the Chinese military's drive to expand its oceangoing capabilities, the officials said. The submarine surfaced in Japanese waters, triggering an emergency deployment of Japan's naval forces.
Beijing later issued an apology for the incursion, but the political damage was done. Within months, Japan began adopting a tougher political posture toward China in its defense policies and public statements. A recent Japanese government defense report called China a strategic national security concern. It was the first time China was named specifically in a Japanese defense report.
Energy supply a factor
For China, Taiwan is not the only issue behind the buildup of military forces. Beijing also is facing a major energy shortage that, according to one Pentagon study, could lead it to use military force to seize territory with oil and gas resources.
The report produced for the Office of Net Assessment, which conducts assessments of future threats, was made public in January and warned that China's need for oil, gas and other energy resources is driving the country toward becoming an expansionist power.
China "is looking not only to build a blue-water navy to control the sea lanes [from the Middle East], but also to develop undersea mines and missile capabilities to deter the potential disruption of its energy supplies from potential threats, including the U.S. Navy, especially in the case of a conflict with Taiwan," the report said.
The report said China believes the United States already controls the sea routes from the oil-rich Persian Gulf through the Malacca Strait. Chinese President Hu Jintao has called this strategic vulnerability to disrupted energy supplies Beijing's "Malacca Dilemma."
To prevent any disruption, China has adopted a "string of pearls" strategy that calls for both offensive and defensive measures stretching along the oil-shipment sea lanes from China's coast to the Middle East.
The "pearls" include the Chinese-financed seaport being built at Gwadar, on the coast of western Pakistan, and commercial and military efforts to establish bases or diplomatic ties in Bangladesh, Burma, Cambodia, Thailand and disputed islands in the South China Sea.
The report stated that China's ability to use these pearls for a "credible" military action is not certain.
Pentagon intelligence officials, however, say the rapid Chinese naval buildup includes the capability to project power to these sea lanes in the future.
"They are not doing a lot of surface patrols or any other kind of security evolutions that far afield," the intelligence official said. "There's no evidence of [Chinese military basing there] yet, but we do need to keep an eye toward that expansion."
The report also highlighted the vulnerability of China's oil and gas infrastructure to a crippling U.S. attack.
"The U.S. military could severely cripple Chinese resistance [during a conflict over Taiwan] by blocking its energy supply, whereas the [People's Liberation Army navy] poses little threat to United States' energy security," it said.
China views the United States as "a potential threat because of its military superiority, its willingness to disrupt China's energy imports, its perceived encirclement of China and its disposition toward manipulating international politics," the report said.
'Mercantilist measures'
The report stated that China will resort "to extreme, offensive and mercantilist measures when other strategies fail, to mitigate its vulnerabilities, such as seizing control of energy resources in neighboring states."
U.S. officials have said two likely targets for China are the Russian Far East, which has vast oil and gas deposits, and Southeast Asia, which also has oil and gas resources.
Michael Pillsbury, a former Pentagon official and specialist on China's military, said the internal U.S. government debate on the issue and excessive Chinese secrecy about its military buildup "has cost us 10 years to figure out what to do"
"Everybody is starting to acknowledge the hard facts," Mr. Pillsbury said. "The China military buildup has been accelerating since 1999. As the buildup has gotten worse, China is trying hard to mask it."
Richard Fisher, vice president of the International Assessment and Strategy Center, said that in 10 years, the Chinese army has shifted from a defensive force to an advanced military soon capable of operations ranging from space warfare to global non-nuclear cruise-missile strikes.
"Let's all wake up. The post-Cold War peace is over," Mr. Fisher said. "We are now in an arms race with a new superpower whose goal is to contain and overtake the United States."
By Bill Gertz
The Washington Times
First of two parts
China is building its military forces faster than U.S. intelligence and military analysts expected, prompting fears that Beijing will attack Taiwan in the next two years, according to Pentagon officials.
U.S. defense and intelligence officials say all the signs point in one troubling direction: Beijing then will be forced to go to war with the United States, which has vowed to defend Taiwan against a Chinese attack.
China's military buildup includes an array of new high-technology weapons, such as warships, submarines, missiles and a maneuverable warhead designed to defeat U.S. missile defenses. Recent intelligence reports also show that China has stepped up military exercises involving amphibious assaults, viewed as another sign that it is preparing for an attack on Taiwan.
"There's a growing consensus that at some point in the mid-to-late '90s, there was a fundamental shift in the sophistication, breadth and re-sorting of Chinese defense planning," said Richard Lawless, a senior China-policy maker in the Pentagon. "And what we're seeing now is a manifestation of that change in the number of new systems that are being deployed, the sophistication of those systems and the interoperability of the systems."
China's economy has been growing at a rate of at least 10 percent for each of the past 10 years, providing the country's military with the needed funds for modernization.
The combination of a vibrant centralized economy, growing military and increasingly fervent nationalism has transformed China into what many defense officials view as a fascist state.
"We may be seeing in China the first true fascist society on the model of Nazi Germany, where you have this incredible resource base in a commercial economy with strong nationalism, which the military was able to reach into and ramp up incredible production," a senior defense official said.
For Pentagon officials, alarm bells have been going off for the past two years as China's military began rapidly building and buying new troop- and weapon-carrying ships and submarines.
The release of an official Chinese government report in December called the situation on the Taiwan Strait "grim" and said the country's military could "crush" Taiwan.
Earlier this year, Beijing passed an anti-secession law, a unilateral measure that upset the fragile political status quo across the Taiwan Strait. The law gives Chinese leaders a legal basis they previously did not have to conduct a military attack on Taiwan, U.S. officials said.
The war fears come despite the fact that China is hosting the Olympic Games in 2008 and, therefore, some officials say, would be reluctant to invoke the international condemnation that a military attack on Taiwan would cause.
Army of the future
In the past, some defense specialists insisted a Chinese attack on Taiwan would be a "million-man swim" across the Taiwan Strait because of the country's lack of troop-carrying ships.
"We left the million-man swim behind in about 1998, 1999," the senior Pentagon official said. "And in fact, what people are saying now, whether or not that construct was ever useful, is that it's a moot point, because in just amphibious lift alone, the Chinese are doubling or even quadrupling their capability on an annual basis."
Asked about a possible Chinese attack on Taiwan, the official put it bluntly: "In the '07-'08 time frame, a capability will be there that a year ago we would have said was very, very unlikely. We now assess that as being very likely to be there."
Air Force Gen. Paul V. Hester, head of the Pacific Air Forces, said the U.S. military has been watching China's military buildup but has found it difficult to penetrate Beijing's "veil" of secrecy over it.
While military modernization itself is not a major worry, "what does provide you a pause for interest and concern is the amount of modernization, the kind of modernization and the size of the modernization," he said during a recent breakfast meeting with reporters.
China is building capabilities such as aerial refueling and airborne warning and control aircraft that can be used for regional defense and long-range power projection, Gen. Hester said.
It also is developing a maneuverable re-entry vehicle, or MARV, for its nuclear warheads. The weapon is designed to counter U.S. strategic-missile defenses, according to officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity. The warhead would be used on China's new DF-31 long-range missiles and its new submarine missile, the JL-2.
Work being done on China's weapons and reconnaissance systems will give its military the capability to reach 1,000 miles into the sea, "which gives them the visibility on the movement of not only our airplanes in the air, but also our forces at sea," Gen. Hester said.
Beijing also has built a new tank for its large armed forces. It is known as the Type 99 and appears similar in design to Germany's Leopard 2 main battle tank. The tank is outfitted with new artillery, anti-aircraft and machine guns, advanced fire-control systems and improved engines.
The country's air power is growing through the purchase of new fighters from Russia, such as Su-30 fighter-bombers, as well as the development of its own fighter jets, such as the J-10.
Gen. Hester compared Chinese warplanes with those of the former Soviet Union, which were less capable than their U.S. counterparts, but still very deadly.
"They have great equipment. The fighters are very technologically advanced, and what we know about them gives us pause for concern against ours," he said.
Missiles also are a worry.
"It is their surface-to-air missiles, their [advanced] SAMs and their surface-to-surface missiles, and the precision, more importantly, of those surface-to-surface missiles that provide, obviously, the ability to pinpoint targets that we might have out in the region, or our friends and allies might have," Gen. Hester said.
The advances give the Chinese military "the ability ... to reach out and touch parts of the United States -- Guam, Hawaii and the mainland of the United States," he said.
To better deal with possible future conflicts in Asia, the Pentagon is modernizing U.S. military facilities on the Western Pacific island of Guam and planning to move more forces there.
The Air Force will regularly rotate Air Expeditionary Force units to Guam and also will station the new long-range unmanned aerial vehicle known as Global Hawk on the island, he said.
It also has stationed B-2 stealth bombers on Guam temporarily and is expected to deploy B-1 bombers there, in addition to the B-52s now deployed there, Gen. Hester said.
Projecting power
China's rulers have adopted what is known as the "two-island chain" strategy of extending control over large areas of the Pacific, covering inner and outer chains of islands stretching from Japan to Indonesia.
"Clearly, they are still influenced by this first and second island chain," the intelligence official said.
The official said China's buildup goes beyond what would be needed to fight a war against Taiwan.
The conclusion of this official is that China wants a "blue-water" navy capable of projecting power far beyond the two island chains.
"If you look at the technical capabilities of the weapons platforms that they're fielding, the sea-keeping capabilities, the size, sensors and weapons fit, this capability transcends the baseline that is required to deal with a Taiwan situation militarily," the intelligence official said.
"So they are positioned then, if [Taiwan is] resolved one way or the other, to really become a regional military power as well."
The dispatch of a Han-class submarine late last year to waters near Guam, Taiwan and Japan was an indication of the Chinese military's drive to expand its oceangoing capabilities, the officials said. The submarine surfaced in Japanese waters, triggering an emergency deployment of Japan's naval forces.
Beijing later issued an apology for the incursion, but the political damage was done. Within months, Japan began adopting a tougher political posture toward China in its defense policies and public statements. A recent Japanese government defense report called China a strategic national security concern. It was the first time China was named specifically in a Japanese defense report.
Energy supply a factor
For China, Taiwan is not the only issue behind the buildup of military forces. Beijing also is facing a major energy shortage that, according to one Pentagon study, could lead it to use military force to seize territory with oil and gas resources.
The report produced for the Office of Net Assessment, which conducts assessments of future threats, was made public in January and warned that China's need for oil, gas and other energy resources is driving the country toward becoming an expansionist power.
China "is looking not only to build a blue-water navy to control the sea lanes [from the Middle East], but also to develop undersea mines and missile capabilities to deter the potential disruption of its energy supplies from potential threats, including the U.S. Navy, especially in the case of a conflict with Taiwan," the report said.
The report said China believes the United States already controls the sea routes from the oil-rich Persian Gulf through the Malacca Strait. Chinese President Hu Jintao has called this strategic vulnerability to disrupted energy supplies Beijing's "Malacca Dilemma."
To prevent any disruption, China has adopted a "string of pearls" strategy that calls for both offensive and defensive measures stretching along the oil-shipment sea lanes from China's coast to the Middle East.
The "pearls" include the Chinese-financed seaport being built at Gwadar, on the coast of western Pakistan, and commercial and military efforts to establish bases or diplomatic ties in Bangladesh, Burma, Cambodia, Thailand and disputed islands in the South China Sea.
The report stated that China's ability to use these pearls for a "credible" military action is not certain.
Pentagon intelligence officials, however, say the rapid Chinese naval buildup includes the capability to project power to these sea lanes in the future.
"They are not doing a lot of surface patrols or any other kind of security evolutions that far afield," the intelligence official said. "There's no evidence of [Chinese military basing there] yet, but we do need to keep an eye toward that expansion."
The report also highlighted the vulnerability of China's oil and gas infrastructure to a crippling U.S. attack.
"The U.S. military could severely cripple Chinese resistance [during a conflict over Taiwan] by blocking its energy supply, whereas the [People's Liberation Army navy] poses little threat to United States' energy security," it said.
China views the United States as "a potential threat because of its military superiority, its willingness to disrupt China's energy imports, its perceived encirclement of China and its disposition toward manipulating international politics," the report said.
'Mercantilist measures'
The report stated that China will resort "to extreme, offensive and mercantilist measures when other strategies fail, to mitigate its vulnerabilities, such as seizing control of energy resources in neighboring states."
U.S. officials have said two likely targets for China are the Russian Far East, which has vast oil and gas deposits, and Southeast Asia, which also has oil and gas resources.
Michael Pillsbury, a former Pentagon official and specialist on China's military, said the internal U.S. government debate on the issue and excessive Chinese secrecy about its military buildup "has cost us 10 years to figure out what to do"
"Everybody is starting to acknowledge the hard facts," Mr. Pillsbury said. "The China military buildup has been accelerating since 1999. As the buildup has gotten worse, China is trying hard to mask it."
Richard Fisher, vice president of the International Assessment and Strategy Center, said that in 10 years, the Chinese army has shifted from a defensive force to an advanced military soon capable of operations ranging from space warfare to global non-nuclear cruise-missile strikes.
"Let's all wake up. The post-Cold War peace is over," Mr. Fisher said. "We are now in an arms race with a new superpower whose goal is to contain and overtake the United States."
Gunner
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 11
- Points
- 430
Thefts of U.S. technology boost China's weaponry
By Bill Gertz
The Washington Times
Second of two parts
China is stepping up its overt and covert efforts to gather intelligence and technology in the United States, and the activities have boosted Beijing's plans to rapidly produce advanced-weapons systems.
"I think you see it where something that would normally take 10 years to develop takes them two or three," said David Szady, chief of FBI counterintelligence operations.
He said the Chinese are prolific collectors of secrets and military-related information.
"What we're finding is that [the spying is] much more focused in certain areas than we ever thought, such as command and control and things of that sort," Mr. Szady said.
"In the military area, the rapid development of their 'blue-water' navy -- like the Aegis weapons systems -- in no small part is probably due to some of the research and development they were able to get from the United States," he said.
The danger of Chinese technology acquisition is that if the United States were called on to fight a war with China over the Republic of China (Taiwan), U.S. forces could find themselves battling a U.S.-equipped enemy.
"I would hate for my grandson to be killed with U.S. technology" in a war over Taiwan, senior FBI counterintelligence official Tim Bereznay told a conference earlier this year.
The Chinese intelligence services use a variety of methods to spy, including traditional intelligence operations targeting U.S.. government agencies and defense contractors.
Additionally, the Chinese use hundreds of thousands of Chinese visitors, students and other nonprofessional spies to gather valuable data, most of it considered "open source," or unclassified information.
"What keeps us up late at night is the asymmetrical, unofficial presence," Mr. Szady said. "The official presence, too.. I don't want to minimize that at all in what they are doing."
China's spies use as many as 3,200 front companies -- many run by groups linked to the Chinese military -- that are set up to covertly obtain information, equipment and technology, U.S. officials say.
Recent examples include front businesses in Milwaukee; Trenton, N.J.; and Palo Alto, Calif., Mr. Szady said.
In other cases, China has dispatched students, short-term visitors, businesspeople and scientific delegations with the objective of stealing technology and other secrets.
The Chinese "are very good at being where the information is," Mr. Szady said.
"If you build a submarine, no one is going to steal a submarine. But what they are looking for are the systems or materials or the designs or the batteries or the air conditioning or the things that make that thing tick," he said. "That's what they are very good at collecting, going after both the private sector, the industrial complexes, as well as the colleges and universities in collecting scientific developments that they need."
One recent case involved two Chinese students at the University of Pennsylvania who were found to be gathering nuclear submarine secrets and passing them to their father in China, a senior military officer involved in that country's submarine program.
Bit by bit
To counter such incidents, the FBI has been beefing up its counterintelligence operations in the past three years and has special sections in all 56 field offices across the country for counterspying.
But the problem of Chinese spying is daunting.
"It's pervasive," Mr. Szady said. "It's a massive presence, 150,000 students, 300,000 delegations in the New York area. That's not counting the rest of the United States, probably 700,000 visitors a year. They're very good at exchanges and business deals, and they're persistent."
Chinese intelligence and business spies will go after a certain technology, and they eventually get what they want, even after being thwarted, he said.
Paul D. Moore, a former FBI intelligence specialist on China, said the Chinese use a variety of methods to get small pieces of information through numerous collectors, mostly from open, public sources.
The three main Chinese government units that run intelligence operations are the Ministry of State Security, the military intelligence department of the People's Liberation Army and a small group known as the Liaison Office of the General Political Department of the Chinese army, said Mr. Moore, now with the private Centre for Counterintelligence Studies..
China gleans most of its important information not from spies but from unwitting American visitors to China -- from both the U.S. government and the private sector -- who are "serially indiscreet" in disclosing information sought by Beijing, Mr. Moore said in a recent speech..
In the past several years, U.S. nuclear laboratory scientists were fooled into providing Chinese scientists with important weapons information during discussions in China through a process of information elicitation -- asking questions and seeking help with physics "problems" that the Chinese are trying to solve, he said.
"The model that China has for its intelligence, in general, is to collect a small amount of information from a large amount of people," Mr. Moore said during a conference of security specialists held by the National Security Institute, a Massachusetts-based consulting firm.
In the learning phase
Mr. Szady acknowledges that the FBI is still "figuring out" the methods used by the Chinese to acquire intelligence and technology from the United States.
Since 1985, there have been only six major intelligence defectors from China's spy services, and information about Chinese activities and methods is limited, U.S. officials said.
Recent Chinese spy cases were mired in controversy.
The case against Katrina Leung, a Los Angeles-based FBI informant who the FBI thinks was a spy for Beijing, ended in the dismissal of charges of taking classified documents from her FBI handler. The Justice Department is appealing the case.
The case against Los Alamos National Laboratory scientist Wen Ho Lee, who was suspected of supplying classified nuclear-weapons data to China, ended with Mr. Lee pleading guilty to only one count among the 59 filed.
The FBI has been unable to find out who in the U.S. government supplied China with secrets on every deployed nuclear weapon in the U.S. arsenal, including the W-88, the small warhead used on U.S. submarine-launched nuclear missiles.
"I think the problem is huge, and it's something that I think we're just getting our arms around," Mr. Szady said of Chinese spying. "It's been there, and what we're doing is more or less discovering it or figuring it out at this point."
Mr. Bereznay said recently that Chinese intelligence activities are a major worry. FBI counterintelligence against the Chinese "is our main priority," he said.
In some cases, so-called political correctness can interfere with FBI counterspying. For example, Chinese-American scientists at U.S. weapons laboratories have accused the FBI of racial profiling.
But Mr. Szady said that is not the case.
China uses ethnic Chinese-Americans as a base from which to recruit agents, he said.
"They don't consider anyone to be American-Chinese," Mr. Szady said. "They're all considered overseas Chinese."
So the answer he gives to those who accuse the FBI of racial profiling is: "We're not profiling you. The Chinese are, and they're very good at doing that."
Pushing an agenda
China's government also uses influence operations designed to advance pro-Chinese policies in the United States and to prevent the U.S. government from taking tough action or adopting policies against Beijing's interests, FBI officials said.
Rudy Guerin, a senior FBI counterintelligence official in charge of China affairs, said the Chinese aggressively exploit their connections to U.S. corporations doing business in China.
"They go straight to the companies themselves," he said.
Many U.S. firms doing business in China, including such giants as Coca-Cola, Boeing and General Motors, use their lobbyists on behalf of Beijing.
"We see the Chinese going to these companies to ask them to lobby on their behalf on certain issues," Mr. Guerin said, "whether it's most-favored-nation trade status, [World Health Organization], Falun Gong or other matters."
The Chinese government also appeals directly to members of Congress and congressional staff.
U.S. officials revealed that China's embassy in Washington has expanded a special section in charge of running influence operations, primarily targeting Congress.
The operation, which includes 26 political officers, is led by Su Ge, a Chinese government official.
The office frequently sends out e-mail to selected members or staff on Capitol Hill, agitating for or against several issues, often related to Taiwan affairs.
Nu Qingbao, one of Mr. Su's deputies, has sent several e-mails to select members and staff warning Congress not to support Taiwan.
The e-mails have angered Republicans who view the influence operations as communist meddling.
"The Chinese, like every other intelligence agency or any other government, are very much engaged in trying to influence, both covertly and overtly," Mr. Szady said.
Taking technology
The real danger to the United States is the loss of the high-technology edge, which can impair U.S.. competitiveness but more importantly can boost China's military.
Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), a part of the Department of Homeland Security, is concerned because the number of high-profile cases of illegal Chinese technology acquisition is growing.
"We see a lot of activity involving China, and I think it would be fair to say the trend is toward an increase," said Robert A. Schoch, deputy assistant director in ICE's national security investigations division.
Mr. Schoch said that one recent case of a South Korean businessman who sought to sell advanced night-vision equipment to China highlights the problem.
"We have an awesome responsibility to protect this sensitive technology," he said. "That gives the military such an advantage."
ICE agents are trying hard to stop illegal exports to China and several other states, including Iran and Syria, not just by halting individual exports but by shutting down networks of illegal exporters, Mr. Schoch said.
Another concern is that China is a known arms proliferator, so weapons and related technology that are smuggled there can be sent to other states of concern.
"Yes, some of this stuff may go to China, but then it could be diverted to other countries," Mr. Schoch said. "And that is the secondary proliferation. Who knows where it may end up."
As with China's military buildup, China's drive for advanced technology with military applications has been underestimated by the U.S. intelligence community.
A report prepared for the congressional U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission found predictions that China was unable to advance technologically were false.
In fact, the report by former Pentagon official Michael Pillsbury highlights 16 key advances in Chinese technology -- all with military implications -- in the past six months alone.
The failure to gauge China's development is part of the bias within the U.S. government that calls for playing down the threat from the growing power of China, both militarily and technologically, Mr. Pillsbury stated.
"Predictions a decade ago of slow Chinese [science and technology] progress have now proved to be false," the report stated.
Unlike the United States, China does not distinguish between civilian and military development. The same factories in China that make refrigerators also are used to make long-range ballistic missiles.
At a time when U.S. counterintelligence agencies are facing an array of foreign spies, the Chinese are considered the most effective at stealing secrets and know-how.
"I think the Chinese have figured it out, as far as being able to collect and advance their political, economic and military interests by theft or whatever you want to call it," Mr. Szady said. "They are way ahead of what the Russians have ever done."
By Bill Gertz
The Washington Times
Second of two parts
China is stepping up its overt and covert efforts to gather intelligence and technology in the United States, and the activities have boosted Beijing's plans to rapidly produce advanced-weapons systems.
"I think you see it where something that would normally take 10 years to develop takes them two or three," said David Szady, chief of FBI counterintelligence operations.
He said the Chinese are prolific collectors of secrets and military-related information.
"What we're finding is that [the spying is] much more focused in certain areas than we ever thought, such as command and control and things of that sort," Mr. Szady said.
"In the military area, the rapid development of their 'blue-water' navy -- like the Aegis weapons systems -- in no small part is probably due to some of the research and development they were able to get from the United States," he said.
The danger of Chinese technology acquisition is that if the United States were called on to fight a war with China over the Republic of China (Taiwan), U.S. forces could find themselves battling a U.S.-equipped enemy.
"I would hate for my grandson to be killed with U.S. technology" in a war over Taiwan, senior FBI counterintelligence official Tim Bereznay told a conference earlier this year.
The Chinese intelligence services use a variety of methods to spy, including traditional intelligence operations targeting U.S.. government agencies and defense contractors.
Additionally, the Chinese use hundreds of thousands of Chinese visitors, students and other nonprofessional spies to gather valuable data, most of it considered "open source," or unclassified information.
"What keeps us up late at night is the asymmetrical, unofficial presence," Mr. Szady said. "The official presence, too.. I don't want to minimize that at all in what they are doing."
China's spies use as many as 3,200 front companies -- many run by groups linked to the Chinese military -- that are set up to covertly obtain information, equipment and technology, U.S. officials say.
Recent examples include front businesses in Milwaukee; Trenton, N.J.; and Palo Alto, Calif., Mr. Szady said.
In other cases, China has dispatched students, short-term visitors, businesspeople and scientific delegations with the objective of stealing technology and other secrets.
The Chinese "are very good at being where the information is," Mr. Szady said.
"If you build a submarine, no one is going to steal a submarine. But what they are looking for are the systems or materials or the designs or the batteries or the air conditioning or the things that make that thing tick," he said. "That's what they are very good at collecting, going after both the private sector, the industrial complexes, as well as the colleges and universities in collecting scientific developments that they need."
One recent case involved two Chinese students at the University of Pennsylvania who were found to be gathering nuclear submarine secrets and passing them to their father in China, a senior military officer involved in that country's submarine program.
Bit by bit
To counter such incidents, the FBI has been beefing up its counterintelligence operations in the past three years and has special sections in all 56 field offices across the country for counterspying.
But the problem of Chinese spying is daunting.
"It's pervasive," Mr. Szady said. "It's a massive presence, 150,000 students, 300,000 delegations in the New York area. That's not counting the rest of the United States, probably 700,000 visitors a year. They're very good at exchanges and business deals, and they're persistent."
Chinese intelligence and business spies will go after a certain technology, and they eventually get what they want, even after being thwarted, he said.
Paul D. Moore, a former FBI intelligence specialist on China, said the Chinese use a variety of methods to get small pieces of information through numerous collectors, mostly from open, public sources.
The three main Chinese government units that run intelligence operations are the Ministry of State Security, the military intelligence department of the People's Liberation Army and a small group known as the Liaison Office of the General Political Department of the Chinese army, said Mr. Moore, now with the private Centre for Counterintelligence Studies..
China gleans most of its important information not from spies but from unwitting American visitors to China -- from both the U.S. government and the private sector -- who are "serially indiscreet" in disclosing information sought by Beijing, Mr. Moore said in a recent speech..
In the past several years, U.S. nuclear laboratory scientists were fooled into providing Chinese scientists with important weapons information during discussions in China through a process of information elicitation -- asking questions and seeking help with physics "problems" that the Chinese are trying to solve, he said.
"The model that China has for its intelligence, in general, is to collect a small amount of information from a large amount of people," Mr. Moore said during a conference of security specialists held by the National Security Institute, a Massachusetts-based consulting firm.
In the learning phase
Mr. Szady acknowledges that the FBI is still "figuring out" the methods used by the Chinese to acquire intelligence and technology from the United States.
Since 1985, there have been only six major intelligence defectors from China's spy services, and information about Chinese activities and methods is limited, U.S. officials said.
Recent Chinese spy cases were mired in controversy.
The case against Katrina Leung, a Los Angeles-based FBI informant who the FBI thinks was a spy for Beijing, ended in the dismissal of charges of taking classified documents from her FBI handler. The Justice Department is appealing the case.
The case against Los Alamos National Laboratory scientist Wen Ho Lee, who was suspected of supplying classified nuclear-weapons data to China, ended with Mr. Lee pleading guilty to only one count among the 59 filed.
The FBI has been unable to find out who in the U.S. government supplied China with secrets on every deployed nuclear weapon in the U.S. arsenal, including the W-88, the small warhead used on U.S. submarine-launched nuclear missiles.
"I think the problem is huge, and it's something that I think we're just getting our arms around," Mr. Szady said of Chinese spying. "It's been there, and what we're doing is more or less discovering it or figuring it out at this point."
Mr. Bereznay said recently that Chinese intelligence activities are a major worry. FBI counterintelligence against the Chinese "is our main priority," he said.
In some cases, so-called political correctness can interfere with FBI counterspying. For example, Chinese-American scientists at U.S. weapons laboratories have accused the FBI of racial profiling.
But Mr. Szady said that is not the case.
China uses ethnic Chinese-Americans as a base from which to recruit agents, he said.
"They don't consider anyone to be American-Chinese," Mr. Szady said. "They're all considered overseas Chinese."
So the answer he gives to those who accuse the FBI of racial profiling is: "We're not profiling you. The Chinese are, and they're very good at doing that."
Pushing an agenda
China's government also uses influence operations designed to advance pro-Chinese policies in the United States and to prevent the U.S. government from taking tough action or adopting policies against Beijing's interests, FBI officials said.
Rudy Guerin, a senior FBI counterintelligence official in charge of China affairs, said the Chinese aggressively exploit their connections to U.S. corporations doing business in China.
"They go straight to the companies themselves," he said.
Many U.S. firms doing business in China, including such giants as Coca-Cola, Boeing and General Motors, use their lobbyists on behalf of Beijing.
"We see the Chinese going to these companies to ask them to lobby on their behalf on certain issues," Mr. Guerin said, "whether it's most-favored-nation trade status, [World Health Organization], Falun Gong or other matters."
The Chinese government also appeals directly to members of Congress and congressional staff.
U.S. officials revealed that China's embassy in Washington has expanded a special section in charge of running influence operations, primarily targeting Congress.
The operation, which includes 26 political officers, is led by Su Ge, a Chinese government official.
The office frequently sends out e-mail to selected members or staff on Capitol Hill, agitating for or against several issues, often related to Taiwan affairs.
Nu Qingbao, one of Mr. Su's deputies, has sent several e-mails to select members and staff warning Congress not to support Taiwan.
The e-mails have angered Republicans who view the influence operations as communist meddling.
"The Chinese, like every other intelligence agency or any other government, are very much engaged in trying to influence, both covertly and overtly," Mr. Szady said.
Taking technology
The real danger to the United States is the loss of the high-technology edge, which can impair U.S.. competitiveness but more importantly can boost China's military.
Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), a part of the Department of Homeland Security, is concerned because the number of high-profile cases of illegal Chinese technology acquisition is growing.
"We see a lot of activity involving China, and I think it would be fair to say the trend is toward an increase," said Robert A. Schoch, deputy assistant director in ICE's national security investigations division.
Mr. Schoch said that one recent case of a South Korean businessman who sought to sell advanced night-vision equipment to China highlights the problem.
"We have an awesome responsibility to protect this sensitive technology," he said. "That gives the military such an advantage."
ICE agents are trying hard to stop illegal exports to China and several other states, including Iran and Syria, not just by halting individual exports but by shutting down networks of illegal exporters, Mr. Schoch said.
Another concern is that China is a known arms proliferator, so weapons and related technology that are smuggled there can be sent to other states of concern.
"Yes, some of this stuff may go to China, but then it could be diverted to other countries," Mr. Schoch said. "And that is the secondary proliferation. Who knows where it may end up."
As with China's military buildup, China's drive for advanced technology with military applications has been underestimated by the U.S. intelligence community.
A report prepared for the congressional U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission found predictions that China was unable to advance technologically were false.
In fact, the report by former Pentagon official Michael Pillsbury highlights 16 key advances in Chinese technology -- all with military implications -- in the past six months alone.
The failure to gauge China's development is part of the bias within the U.S. government that calls for playing down the threat from the growing power of China, both militarily and technologically, Mr. Pillsbury stated.
"Predictions a decade ago of slow Chinese [science and technology] progress have now proved to be false," the report stated.
Unlike the United States, China does not distinguish between civilian and military development. The same factories in China that make refrigerators also are used to make long-range ballistic missiles.
At a time when U.S. counterintelligence agencies are facing an array of foreign spies, the Chinese are considered the most effective at stealing secrets and know-how.
"I think the Chinese have figured it out, as far as being able to collect and advance their political, economic and military interests by theft or whatever you want to call it," Mr. Szady said. "They are way ahead of what the Russians have ever done."
N
neuromancer
Guest
Ok. Now Im gong to just pull one out of my hat.
But maybe all this arms build up is just a Chinese self-defense syndrome.
Remeber, these are the same people that built a 6350km wall about 450 years ago
to keep out turkic and mongol raiders.
Again, just pulling this idea out of my hat, but what if the arms build up in China
is a similar, although modern, attempt at overkill-self-defense?
cheers!
But maybe all this arms build up is just a Chinese self-defense syndrome.
Remeber, these are the same people that built a 6350km wall about 450 years ago
to keep out turkic and mongol raiders.
Again, just pulling this idea out of my hat, but what if the arms build up in China
is a similar, although modern, attempt at overkill-self-defense?
cheers!
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 230
The difference between protective and projective force is critical in deducing intent. Protective force is military force which is generated in and limited to that country (like our Leopards; we can't deploy them so they are NOT a method of force projection). Projective force are those military forces deployable outside your homeland, to enforce the will of your nation upon another. The Chinese concentration on developing a blue water navy, sufficient heavy sealift for large scale assault operations, better sea based SAM and aircraft based Air to Air missiles indicates that they are preparing a force mix consistent with force projection, not simple protection. The Chinese prepare for assaults outside Chinese territory, such assaults expected to be resisted by naval surface and aviation forces. Since this is the war they are preparing to fight, one of Chinese offensive operation against targets that may be protected by heavy air and naval aviation assets, one can only assume that they are aiming at Tiawan, and preparing to go through the US Pacific fleet if it gets in the way. Since Russia and China joined together in denouncing the US from unilaterally interfering in the sovereignty of other nations in dealing with their internal rebellions, directly linking Chechnya and Tiawan in this context, it appears that China is laying the political groundwork to permit offensive operations without fear of international reaction. The strong language used in recent Chinese legislation prohibiting Tiawan (ROC) from making any formal declaration of independence, shows that they are still resolved to take Tiawan, by force if necessary.neuromancer said:
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
On a doctrinal scale, every major army in the world has been moving away from the passive defence of the cold war to force projection in order to safeguard national interests outside of their borders. The Chinese are just late to the game because of their internal problems.
Also, modern strategic thinking emphasizes smaller, faster, harder hitting units for both offense and defence. The big deal for a country surrounded by enemies ike China is that speed can replace numbers. Instead of keeping huge numbers of troops to secure every hostile frontier, a smaller more mobile force can quickly deploy to trouble spots.
One of the main reasons for the 1979 Vietnamese fiasco was that the Chinese were forced to deploy second line militia units because the bulk of thier first line units had to stay on the northern border to guard against a Soviet intervention. 1979 and GW1 pretty much convinced the Chinese (and rightly so) that a strategy of static defence("People's War") was obsolete.
Also, modern strategic thinking emphasizes smaller, faster, harder hitting units for both offense and defence. The big deal for a country surrounded by enemies ike China is that speed can replace numbers. Instead of keeping huge numbers of troops to secure every hostile frontier, a smaller more mobile force can quickly deploy to trouble spots.
One of the main reasons for the 1979 Vietnamese fiasco was that the Chinese were forced to deploy second line militia units because the bulk of thier first line units had to stay on the northern border to guard against a Soviet intervention. 1979 and GW1 pretty much convinced the Chinese (and rightly so) that a strategy of static defence("People's War") was obsolete.
the current GW2 may convince them that they need modern, mobile proffessional expeditionary forces (as per the USA), but for their own homeland defence, a massive 'village militia' "peoples war" is the answer if they have to give up ground - as per the Iraqis.
Our previous posts about Chicom espionage appears to have been supplemented by Bill gertz, above.
Still, they do make a damn good M-14.
Tom
Our previous posts about Chicom espionage appears to have been supplemented by Bill gertz, above.
Still, they do make a damn good M-14.
Tom
- Reaction score
- 5,913
- Points
- 1,260
Welcome to the world.
China is doing to us what everyone else is doing to us, has been doing to us and will continue doing to us as long as we are a first world country.
We are, rightfully, concerned about spying by America, Brazil, China and so on and so forth, and we have been for some time. As I have mentioned before, China is just a newcomer. Much of the French space and high tech programmes were stolen, including stolen from us,
(See: http://vikingphoenix.com/news/archives/1997/mil97004.htm especially (bear in mind, please, it is a 1997 story) â “
... a Southern Ontario company that does classified work for the Department of National Defence called in a security expert specializing in electronic countermeasures because it fears it may be a target of France's foreign intelligence service, the DGSE, which is well-known for its electronic intelligence interception capabilities.
"They see a great potential to be hit," says Doug Ralph, the former RCMP veteran hired to protect the company from clandestine electronic surveillance. He wouldn't elaborate, except to say, "The threat is out there. The French are known, it's documented, that they're good at what they do in their trade craft."
(It was the DGSE a few years ago that allegedly bugged the Air France seats of Northern Telecom officials and reportedly sabotaged a major Nortel contract in Hungary by forwarding the information to French competitors. Nortel didn't respond to a request for an interview for this story.))
If memory serves the French were quite miffed at being singled out as a major threat to Canada's security â “ even more than they were miffed about being caught red-handed committed espionage and major crimes in New Zealand. Canada, to its credit, did not apologize to France â “ Canada needs never apologize to France for anything, ever.
We need a vigorous counter-intelligence programme in Canada â “ a secretive programme, I suggest.*
We also need to bear in mind that we have few, very, very few friends and even they are not above spying on us when it suits their purposes. In my opinion our list of friends does NOT include: Austria, Belgium, China, Djibouti, Estonia, France, Germany, Hungary, India, Japan, Kenya, Latvia, Moldova, Nigeria, Oman , Pakistan, Qatar, Russia, Slovenia, Turkey, Uzbekistan, Vietnam, Yemen and Zimbabwe (no UN member states appear to start with W or X). That does not mean that many, even any of those states are our enemies â “ they are, simply, not our friends. I think we can count solidly, consistently friendly nations on one hand.
I'm not apologizing for China but I am not prepared to get all excited about the Chinese being, finally, unmasked â “ being caught doing what everyone else does, including most of our so-called friends and allies, like the friend which is one of the two countries in which our Foreign Affairs Minister, Pierre Pettigrew, holds citizenship.
----------
* I understand and accept that, in a democracy, especially, we need to watch the watchers and the watchers need to ensure that their vital tasks enjoy a measure of public support which involves, consequentially, some publicity â “ even a bit of scare mongering, now and again.
China is doing to us what everyone else is doing to us, has been doing to us and will continue doing to us as long as we are a first world country.
We are, rightfully, concerned about spying by America, Brazil, China and so on and so forth, and we have been for some time. As I have mentioned before, China is just a newcomer. Much of the French space and high tech programmes were stolen, including stolen from us,
(See: http://vikingphoenix.com/news/archives/1997/mil97004.htm especially (bear in mind, please, it is a 1997 story) â “
... a Southern Ontario company that does classified work for the Department of National Defence called in a security expert specializing in electronic countermeasures because it fears it may be a target of France's foreign intelligence service, the DGSE, which is well-known for its electronic intelligence interception capabilities.
"They see a great potential to be hit," says Doug Ralph, the former RCMP veteran hired to protect the company from clandestine electronic surveillance. He wouldn't elaborate, except to say, "The threat is out there. The French are known, it's documented, that they're good at what they do in their trade craft."
(It was the DGSE a few years ago that allegedly bugged the Air France seats of Northern Telecom officials and reportedly sabotaged a major Nortel contract in Hungary by forwarding the information to French competitors. Nortel didn't respond to a request for an interview for this story.))
If memory serves the French were quite miffed at being singled out as a major threat to Canada's security â “ even more than they were miffed about being caught red-handed committed espionage and major crimes in New Zealand. Canada, to its credit, did not apologize to France â “ Canada needs never apologize to France for anything, ever.
We need a vigorous counter-intelligence programme in Canada â “ a secretive programme, I suggest.*
We also need to bear in mind that we have few, very, very few friends and even they are not above spying on us when it suits their purposes. In my opinion our list of friends does NOT include: Austria, Belgium, China, Djibouti, Estonia, France, Germany, Hungary, India, Japan, Kenya, Latvia, Moldova, Nigeria, Oman , Pakistan, Qatar, Russia, Slovenia, Turkey, Uzbekistan, Vietnam, Yemen and Zimbabwe (no UN member states appear to start with W or X). That does not mean that many, even any of those states are our enemies â “ they are, simply, not our friends. I think we can count solidly, consistently friendly nations on one hand.
I'm not apologizing for China but I am not prepared to get all excited about the Chinese being, finally, unmasked â “ being caught doing what everyone else does, including most of our so-called friends and allies, like the friend which is one of the two countries in which our Foreign Affairs Minister, Pierre Pettigrew, holds citizenship.
----------
* I understand and accept that, in a democracy, especially, we need to watch the watchers and the watchers need to ensure that their vital tasks enjoy a measure of public support which involves, consequentially, some publicity â “ even a bit of scare mongering, now and again.
I think a key element of the concern is the *scale* and nature of Chinese espionage operations and their consistent escellation. I also agree that we should ramp up our counter-intelligence capabilities even more than the average per-capita of nations of comparable population and economics. I do not consider it scare mongering when it is a genuine threat to national security.Edward Campbell said:
- Reaction score
- 5,913
- Points
- 1,260
Dare said:
My guess is that a significant share of the information Gertz and company are giving us was composed in counter-intelligence agency communications departments. Those agencies have a vested interest in provoking discussions just like this one. That doesn't mean the Chinese, and others, do not pose a real threat to our national security. It does mean that threats need to be advertised.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
I trust that none of us here have any illusions as to the agenda and "accuracy" of either Mr. Gertz, or The Washington Times. for whom Mr. Gertz works. I mean, really, a newspaper that in 20+ years has never made a penny in profit, created by a guy(below) who thinks of himself as "The Messiah" and with his wife "The true parents of human kind", to "fulfill god's desperate desire to save the world"? Ooookaaay then.....
- Reaction score
- 35
- Points
- 560
For real propaganda, we can read the "People's Daily". The Chinese are meanwhile working on a cooperation agreement with Russia (would be superpower + has been superpower. There is an interesting combination of motives).
While this blog is a bit over the top, it is illuminating:
http://treyjackson.typepad.com/junction/2005/07/diabolical_move.html
Diabolical Moves on the Global Chessboard
China and Russia reaffirmed their strategic alliance in summit talks and took a broad -- if veiled -- swipe at US global power by vowing resolute opposition to attempts by any state to "dominate international affairs."
Pamela aka Atlas is back from Gay Paree (eurodisney for adults, they are in complete denial) to find the most startling news story of the week virtually ignored by all media.
China and Russia, enemies - a love story.
In this axis of evil, who metaphorically is Stalin and who is Hitler..........? My guess is China will be the one that screws Russia much the way Stalin was screwed.
Putin stressed there were "vast bilateral possibilities for inter-regional cooperation," adding that Russia and China "intend to develop our military ties and cooperation" He said the neighbors would hold joint large-scale military exercises by the end of this year.
Beijing and Moscow have particularly sought to enhance security cooperation through the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation, which also includes Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan and has made fighting "extremism" in Central Asia a prime goal despite growing Western criticism of hardline methods by regional governments to counter unrest.
This new love affair is a strategic alliance to counter America's hyperpower and increasing influence in the Middle East, Asia and Eastern European regions. The two are going to start joint military operations. Also - the countries they are talking about are fighting for Freedom.
Democracy is poison to totalitarian regimes. Poison to societies of fear.
Natan Sharansky understood the critical difference between the world of fear and the world of freedom, the former the primary challenge is finding the inner strength to confront evil. In the latter, the primary challenge is the moral clarity to see evil An alliance between two world powers - two of the greatest violators of human rights - is an alignment in the global chessboard of diabolical proportion.
It is the fear of freedom that America is spreading, sowing, that these regimes will stop at nothing, nothing to stop. And we in America must stop the hand wringing and be absolute in our moral clarity. As Natan Sharansky so brilliantly explained in The Case for Democracy, without moral clarity, sympathy can also be placed in the service of evil.
A world without moral clarity is a world in which dictators speak about human rights even as they kill thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions and even tens of millions of people. It is a world in which the only democracy in the Middle East is perceived as the greatest violator of human rights in the world.
A lack of moral clarity is also the tragedy that has befallen efforts to advance peace and security in the world in the world. Promoting peace and security is fundamentally connected to promoting freedom and democracy. Sharansky learned from his teacher Andrei Sakharov, the world cannot depend on leaders who do not depend on their own people.
THINK ABOUT THAT
While this blog is a bit over the top, it is illuminating:
http://treyjackson.typepad.com/junction/2005/07/diabolical_move.html
Diabolical Moves on the Global Chessboard
China and Russia reaffirmed their strategic alliance in summit talks and took a broad -- if veiled -- swipe at US global power by vowing resolute opposition to attempts by any state to "dominate international affairs."
Pamela aka Atlas is back from Gay Paree (eurodisney for adults, they are in complete denial) to find the most startling news story of the week virtually ignored by all media.
China and Russia, enemies - a love story.
In this axis of evil, who metaphorically is Stalin and who is Hitler..........? My guess is China will be the one that screws Russia much the way Stalin was screwed.
Putin stressed there were "vast bilateral possibilities for inter-regional cooperation," adding that Russia and China "intend to develop our military ties and cooperation" He said the neighbors would hold joint large-scale military exercises by the end of this year.
Beijing and Moscow have particularly sought to enhance security cooperation through the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation, which also includes Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan and has made fighting "extremism" in Central Asia a prime goal despite growing Western criticism of hardline methods by regional governments to counter unrest.
This new love affair is a strategic alliance to counter America's hyperpower and increasing influence in the Middle East, Asia and Eastern European regions. The two are going to start joint military operations. Also - the countries they are talking about are fighting for Freedom.
Democracy is poison to totalitarian regimes. Poison to societies of fear.
Natan Sharansky understood the critical difference between the world of fear and the world of freedom, the former the primary challenge is finding the inner strength to confront evil. In the latter, the primary challenge is the moral clarity to see evil An alliance between two world powers - two of the greatest violators of human rights - is an alignment in the global chessboard of diabolical proportion.
It is the fear of freedom that America is spreading, sowing, that these regimes will stop at nothing, nothing to stop. And we in America must stop the hand wringing and be absolute in our moral clarity. As Natan Sharansky so brilliantly explained in The Case for Democracy, without moral clarity, sympathy can also be placed in the service of evil.
A world without moral clarity is a world in which dictators speak about human rights even as they kill thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions and even tens of millions of people. It is a world in which the only democracy in the Middle East is perceived as the greatest violator of human rights in the world.
A lack of moral clarity is also the tragedy that has befallen efforts to advance peace and security in the world in the world. Promoting peace and security is fundamentally connected to promoting freedom and democracy. Sharansky learned from his teacher Andrei Sakharov, the world cannot depend on leaders who do not depend on their own people.
THINK ABOUT THAT
- Reaction score
- 5,913
- Points
- 1,260
I think this article from today's Globe and Mail points us at the 'real' Chinese 'threat' and the underlying reason for the current US anti-Chinese rhetoric.
My emphasis at the end.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050705.wxryuan05/BNStory/Business/
The biggest threats to America's economic security are:
"¢ A spendthrift administration; and
"¢ A gimme culture - fuelled by cowardly legislatures and administrations which refuse to reward saving/investing over consumption.
(Parenthetically: the best thing to be done to and for Canada since 1967 was the GST - consumption taxes work: they raise revenue and they reward savings.
Two things contributed to Canada's current enviable federal financial position in the world:
1. GST revenues; and
2. Offloading of social programme costs to the provinces - which also shifted the deficits downwards.)
My emphasis at the end.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050705.wxryuan05/BNStory/Business/
The biggest threats to America's economic security are:
"¢ A spendthrift administration; and
"¢ A gimme culture - fuelled by cowardly legislatures and administrations which refuse to reward saving/investing over consumption.
(Parenthetically: the best thing to be done to and for Canada since 1967 was the GST - consumption taxes work: they raise revenue and they reward savings.
Two things contributed to Canada's current enviable federal financial position in the world:
1. GST revenues; and
2. Offloading of social programme costs to the provinces - which also shifted the deficits downwards.)
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
Edward Campbell said:
On a sidenote that would be better on some other thread no doubt. The above would work even better if some of that offloading downward continued to the municipalities to bring it closer to those who need it (read less bureaucracy).
Similar threads
