Chain of Command

[Arnold]

I have tried to find an answer to this question in the Battalion in Battle Pam however, I have a question.

If in a Light Infantry Company the Company Commander goes down as well as somehow the Coy 2IC who then is in command of the Company there is debate as to if this would be the #1 Platoon Commander or the CSM.  Can anyone clear this up for my curious mind?

Thanks

 

[Neill McKay]

I have tried to find an answer to this question in the Battalion in Battle Pam however, I have a question.

If in a Light Infantry Company the Company Commander goes down as well as somehow the Coy 2IC who then is in command of the Company there is debate as to if this would be the #1 Platoon Commander or the CSM.  Can anyone clear this up for my curious mind?

QR&Os provides:

"3.20 – COMMAND GENERALLY
In cases not otherwise provided for in QR&O, command shall be exercised by:
(a) the senior officer present;
(b) in the absence of an officer, the senior non-commissioned member present; or
(c) any other officer or non-commissioned member, where specifically authorized by the Chief of the Defence Staff, an officer commanding a command or formation or a commanding officer."

If there is any doubt as to who is the senior officer present, it is determined as follows:

1. By rank.  If both have the same rank, then
2. By time in rank.  If both have the same time in rank, then
3. By time in previous rank.  If both are still tied, then
4. By age.

 

[HItorMiss]

Depends

My understanding is in the heat of battle the CSM would fill the position of Coy Comd until such time as the Senior PL Comd could be moved from the fight he was in engaged in and take over.

If that was not until the end of the battle then so be it as the CSM is/should be in the proper postion to see the big picture and run the fight until it is concluded and the Re-Org can be facilitated.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Depends

My understanding is in the heat of battle the CSM would fill the position of Coy Comd until such time as the Senior PL Comd could be moved from the fight he was in engaged in and take over.

If that was not until the end of the battle then so be it as the CSM is/should be in the proper postion to see the big picture and run the fight until it is concluded and the Re-Org can be facilitated.

And, of course, if the CSM doesn't happen to be around the OC's Tac HQ, the OC's signaller will run the battle until relieved. I've seen more than one NCO signaller do a better job than their OC!

 

[George Wallace]

And, of course, if the CSM doesn't happen to be around the OC's Tac HQ, the OC's signaller will run the battle until relieved. I've seen more than one NCO signaller do a better job than their OC!

Glad you brought that up.  I had posting problems all day, but that is a point that has been rumoured, perhaps even documented, several times in history.........Where a Cpl suddenly found themself in command of troops, sometimes above Coy, even Bde, level.

Of course when the battle is over and the dust has settled, they are no longer in that position.

 

[Arnold]

So to confirm there isn't really a formed doctrine as there is within the platoon context. It would be the most senior man in the area until the most senior platoon commander can take charge or battalion could rejig the company?  I was just curious if there was a formed doctrine similar to the platoon context of PL cmd, 2IC, #1 section commander etc.

Either way thanks for the input

 

[daftandbarmy]

So to confirm there isn't really a formed doctrine as there is within the platoon context. It would be the most senior man ...

Ahem... or woman. :nod:

Sometimes the FOO/MFC can take over too. The one who directs the biggest bullets has the right of way.

 

[Arnold]

Great thanks I was just curious

 

[vonGarvin]

OK, not to throw water in anyone's faces, but.....here comes the splash


Assume a company commander goes down.  The next highest ranking officer will immedietly assume command.  If there are no officers left, then the highest ranking NCM will assume command.


As for control, that is something else.  It simply means that the battle plan, as issued and ordered by the OC, continues to be implemented and monitored by the Headquarters, be it the CSM, signaller or whomever.

So, irrespective of people's opinions of how well (or poorly) OCs command their companies, and irrespective of people's opinions on who does what, if the OC drops, the 2IC is out, and the only officer left is 2Lt Ricky, two weeks out of IODP 1.2, then 2Lt Ricky commands the company.  He is the only member left of the company who holds a commission, and as such, it's up to him.


Now, argue all you want about listening to advice, experience, etc; however, I riddle you this, Batman:

Suppose 2Lt Ricky doesn't know what to do.  His OC is down, his defensive position is on the verge of being over run and there are casualties mounting.  The CSM offers up that they should withdraw, to save the lives of whoever is left.  Ricky nods and away they go.  Suppose that the company was expected to conduct a delay or block or whatever, and by withdrawing, the enemy were allowed to break into the battalion rear area, or the enemy were allowed to escape a very well-planned Kill Zone, or whatever.  The CO will be pissed, and he could care less what the CSM said.  2Lt Ricky will be the one to hang.

 

[vonGarvin]

So to confirm there isn't really a formed doctrine as there is within the platoon context. It would be the most senior man in the area until the most senior platoon commander can take charge or battalion could rejig the company?  I was just curious if there was a formed doctrine similar to the platoon context of PL cmd, 2IC, #1 section commander etc.
Either way thanks for the input

Check para 5 of the orders issued for said operation.  Command and Signal, under "Command" will list the alternate command.  For example, it may state something like this:

"Alt Comd: OC, 2IC, 3 Pl Comd, 1 Pl Comd, 2 Pl Comd"

That's why it's there in orders.