CF,Police,RCMP

[ab136]

I'm sure this is not the correct forum for this question but I'll start here anyway.
I was just wondering if the CF is a good starting point for someone wanting to get in to community policing/RCMP.  I'm sure some of the training would be relevant. I know this is not an RCMP site. I'm just trying to make plans for post retirement.  Maybe someone is already on the road to RCMP.

 

[RDA]

Hi ab136,   from what I have read on this forum, the general concensus seems to be that ANY kind of military training is relevant to law enforcement.   Regardless of military occupation, officers and NCMs alike develop good discipline, effective time management, decisiveness, problem solving abilities, strong leadership, good interpersonal skills, physical and mental stamina, etc...   The type of personal and professional development you will find in a military career really does appeal universally to any and all civilian employers, and perhaps even more so to the RCMP.   (Also, I believe the time you spend in the CF as a regular member is pensionable with the RCMP.   You should consult the RCMP for details on this though.)

I'm at a similar crossroads myself.   I am in my mid-twenties and currently in the late stages of recruitment for both the RCMP and the CF.   I am currently undergoing the level 3 background check with the RCMP, so it is pretty much a waiting game now until I get in.   On the other hand, I may receive a job offer any day to become a Signals Officer in the CF (DEO).   If this happens, I will have to make a BIG decision...   I'm seriously loosing sleep over it.    ???  
I don't mean to hijack this thread, but if anybody has any advice for me, please vocalise it!


[Edited for sppellling...]

 

[Bobby147]

Hi RDA,

Which recruiting process takes shorter time, CF as DEO or RCMP????

I mean security clearance time???

Thanks

 

[RDA]

Hi RDA,
Which recruiting process takes shorter time, CF as DEO or RCMP????
I mean security clearance time???
Thanks

As far as I know, the RCMP level 3 background check takes approximately 4 to 6 months to complete (if you've been a good little Canadian and not travelled much in the past 10 years).   It should be noted that the RCMP do their own level 3 background checks, and they do this BEFORE sending you to Depot (RCMP basic training).   The entire RCMP recruiting process takes between 8 to 18 months, if everything goes smoothly.   [Process details: http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/recruiting/applicat_e.htm]

To be a Signals Officer in the CF, you also need a level 3 clearance, but the CF will send you to basic training (IAP/BOTC) before doing the background check.   (Actually, I'm not sure when the CF begin their level 3 background checks, perhaps somebody else could clarify this?)   As far as I know, the level 3 clearance check for the CF is conducted by CSIS, and I have no idea how long they take to complete it, but again, you are recruited before being granted the clearance.

Take care

 

[PhilipJFry]

I have a little question for you. Is the level 3 clearance you talk about is the top secret security clearance?
If it is, it's a good thing the CF don't make the candidates wait for it before the BOTC. The process is long enough already...

 

[RDA]

I have a little question for you. Is the level 3 clearance you talk about is the top secret security clearance?

Yup.

If it is, it's a good thing the CF don't make the candidates wait for it before the BOTC. The process is long enough already...

Any other day, I would agree with you, but today I got word that I will be receiving the offer for Signals Officer this week, and I find myself wishing I had just a little more time to make the decision.   Oh well, I guess it's time to make the choice.   :-\

 

[rmc22208]

Actually, I'm not sure when the CF begin their level 3 background checks, perhaps somebody else could clarify this?)

Indeed, CSIS does the background check for the CF.  However, DPM Secur2 does the primary verifications and the PRIORITIZATION.  I am in the process of getting a level II sec clear and it's been more than 6 months as we're speaking.

I personally know about 30 people in the Signals Officer trade.  Many positions in these trades are not "hardcore" level III.  There is no rule bending for hardcore level III, if you need it for operational purposes, it will be fastracked and you'll not be able to be posted at this position until you get it.  I have seen site access clearance (that's level III+) granted in less than 3 weeks.  It rarely occurs, but my point is that if you absolutely need it, you'll be processed faster.

The policy is that they can still employ you even though you do not possess the standard trade security clearance.  Unless you're afraid of being "denied" a security clearance, it is not likely to affect your enrollment process.

However, some classifications requires that you get a security clearance BEFORE you enroll.  Public domain example of these are OPM (officer of the military police)  and the military police officers themselves.

IN order to get a better idea of the time CSIS takes to process security clearances, have a look to their latest public report:
http://www.csis.gc.ca/eng/publicrp/pub2003_e.html#4f

The average processing time for level III access is 72 days.  This information has to be interpreted in context.  It only accounts for the time between the issuance of a request to CSIS and the time the investigation report is returned to DPM Secur 2.  DPM Secur 2 has to act upon CSIS recommandations, this adds further delays.

As well, the average processing time is only good when you can get the standard deviation on all the requests.  It is possible to get an average of 72 days by having half of the request taking a very short amount of time and the other half taking a very long amount of time.  So that 72 days means squat.

Hope this helps,

 

[RDA]

rmc22208:  Thanks for the lowdown!

I personally know about 30 people in the Signals Officer trade.  

Is that so...  Well, off the record, would you say that the majority of them are happy with their job?

 

[rmc22208]

Well, off the record, would you say that the majority of them are happy with their job?

I can't comment for the day-to-day requirement of their job.  But from what I hear it is the right blend of Army type of job with different positions in Information Systems related work.

There is sub-branches inside the Sig0 corps.  Some of them are really cool,  You may find more info on these jobs at:
http://www.img.forces.gc.ca/adm_im/organization/CFIOG/index_e.htm

The only hard part, and not so liked part, of the SigO trade is the basic training.  It's half infantry/half signals related.  It is worth going through the basic training for the life that lays afterwords.

 

[Pte. Bloggins]

(Actually, I'm not sure when the CF begin their level 3 background checks, perhaps somebody else could clarify this?)   As far as I know, the level 3 clearance check for the CF is conducted by CSIS, and I have no idea how long they take to complete it, but again, you are recruited before being granted the clearance.

I'm not sure how it works in Regs, but my application for level 3 clearance got sent out in january-ish (of this year) and I haven't heard anything back. Neither have some of the Cpls who joined a year before me. But I guess we little reservist sig ops are not as high a priority as, for example, someone going on tour.

 

[rmc22208]

Neither have some of the Cpls who joined a year before me. But I guess we little reservist sig ops are not as high a priority as, for example, someone going on tour.

It is indeed priority based.  But priority depends on more than one factor like going on tour.  It is likely that as a sig ops, you may require a level II just to touch a dial on some equipment.  In the GoC, you can't even open a computer box w/o having a level III and since you're in a electronics related trade, you will be put at a descent priority.

FYI, see the topic below for a breakdown on the Sec Clear process.  This is just a summary, but it is an accurate one:
http://army.ca/forums/threads/22592/post-128507.html#msg128507

 

[Goober]

... In the GoC, you can't even open a computer box w/o having a level III ...

Unless your a civvie contractor

 

[rmc22208]

Unless your a civvie contractor

Not that I want to start a huge discussion on this.  But there is such a thing a security clearance for contractors.  In fact, the GSP makes no distinction between the privileges associated with a sec clear given to a GoC employee or a contractor.  See for yourself:

http://www.ciisd.gc.ca/ism/text/anx-3f-e.asp

So, contractors DO require the same level of security than GoC employees when holding similar positions.  The process is administered by the Contractor's security officer and Public works and Government Services. (www.pwgsc.gc.ca).

 

[adaccache]

Anyone know if military exp. will help me get into ERT at all or not?

my goal is that...I plan on doing a few years reserve, then going to the RCMP and serving the manditory 3 years, and then applying for ERT
I also have a diploma in computer programming from algonquin, not sure if I should bother getting a univ degree, would anyone know?

I hate to ask this on this board, but I've tried the RCMP recruitment office...no help, I just figure someone would know

Thanks

 

[Goober]

Unless your a civvie contractor

Not that I want to start a huge discussion on this.   But there is such a thing a security clearance for contractors.   In fact, the GSP makes no distinction between the privileges associated with a sec clear given to a GoC employee or a contractor.   See for yourself:

http://www.ciisd.gc.ca/ism/text/anx-3f-e.asp

So, contractors DO require the same level of security than GoC employees when holding similar positions.   The process is administered by the Contractor's security officer and Public works and Government Services. (www.pwgsc.gc.ca).

That contract if for 'Contractors' (companies) who need access to the information inside of the computers. Your original post said

... In the GoC, you can't even open a computer box w/o having a level III ...

Which is not how it works. Joe Blow who works for a Contractor can open up the computers and fix them, replace parts and what-not without a security clearance.

 

[RDA]

I can't comment for the day-to-day requirement of their job.   But from what I hear it is the right blend of Army type of job with different positions in Information Systems related work.

There is sub-branches inside the Sig0 corps.   Some of them are really cool,   You may find more info on these jobs at:
http://www.img.forces.gc.ca/adm_im/organization/CFIOG/index_e.htm

Thanks for the info rmc22208, the sub-branches are indeed very... well...   "cool"!

The only hard part, and not so liked part, of the SigO trade is the basic training.   It's half infantry/half signals related.   It is worth going through the basic training for the life that lays afterwords.

No problems here.   I'm excited about basic training, and even more so about CAP... should be a blast! (no pun intended)  
Thanks again for your reply.

Take care

 

[rmc22208]

Who do you think will access information in these "companies"?  People ("employees, civilian contractors... etc...) will access this info, and because sec clear is all about liabilities, companies employing employees needing sec clears also need to be held accountable.
Joe Blow who works as  a Contractor for DND is one of the following:

1. An independent contractor, which, legally speaking must be a "company" in itself. It might be a consultant, which is like a company with only one employee, that person and the contractor will still need a security clearance.

2. An employee of a DND contractor (Calian, just an example, is a big one), the "company" is the contractor and it must abet to the same principles as stated at 1.,  What it means for the employee is that he'll need to go through a sec clear through its employer.

1.  I did work as civilian contractor for a DND unit in a recent past.
2.  The position that I filled requires a personal level II security clearance.  Calian, which is the company that hired me on behalf of DND, HAD to get me cleared to fill that position.


So to make my original statement about computer boxes more accurate:

If, for any given reason, maintenance on a computer requires a level II sec clear, then the maintenance people (whoever they might be) will need to be cleared before they can perform their work, period.

It is possible that some computers can be maintained by non-clearance holding personnel, this might be what you want to refer to.