Cenotaph/Memorial Vandalism/Solutions-Laws (merged)

[The Bread Guy]

Some of the latest from the hearings on the proposed bill ....

Anyone caught vandalizing a war memorial should have a criminal record, and judges or Crown attorneys who consider otherwise are inviting the “wrath of the public,” a Conservative MP says.

Conservative MP David Tilson made the comments under questioning from senators over his private member’s bill that would create minimum fines and jail terms for mischief against war memorials or cenotaphs.

“If you’re convicted of these offences, you should have a criminal record,” Tilson said. “This is a serious matter — it goes beyond mischief.”

His bill was met with concern from some senators who wanted data about the scope of the problem, and the scope of change to the Criminal Code being proposed.

(....)

Tilson said the bill doesn’t stop a Crown attorney or judge from having an alternative sentence for vandals, such as community service, but “he or she runs the wrath of the public if they do that.”

“A judge has jurisdiction to do that,” Tilson said. “The whole aim of this bill is to make it severe. The penalties are severe. I sense that you don’t think they should be, but I do.” ....

 

[Journeyman]

......inviting the “wrath of the public,”

I doubt the pubic cares remotely, let alone enough to work up "wrath."

 

[George Wallace]

A lot of people look at memorials as objects, not necessarily a memorial, and not at all as a work of art that some artist/sculpture has laboured to create.  Quite often, the general public are completely complacent to memorials to the extent that they are invisible to them in their daily lives.  Some memorials are quite prominent "tourist attractions" while the majority are 'invisible' to the public.  Corner stones on buildings and historic plaques are walked past unnoticed daily.  Statues in parks are often just that, a statue; not a memorial to some event or person.  Could we even go so far as to compare many memorials to 'garden gnomes' in the way that the public pass them without notice.

 

[The Bread Guy]

I doubt the pubic cares remotely, let alone enough to work up "wrath."

Without having read the Committee transcript, the MP sounds like someone who wants the public to directly twist the arms of the judiciary.  He  may even be disappointed we don't elect prosecutors and judges.

 

[dapaterson]

Without having read the Committee transcript, the MP sounds like someone who wants the public to directly twist the arms of the judiciary.  He  may even be disappointed we don't elect prosecutors and judges.

Pshaw!  He probably wants lynch mobs instead - cheaper, faster and no procedural nonsense.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Pshaw!  He probably wants lynch mobs instead - cheaper, faster and no procedural nonsense.

Like this?

 

[Jarnhamar]

I'm all for doubling or tripling the sentence for people who are generally assholes but if we singled out memorials for an increased punishment people would go out of their way to vandalize them just to make a point/protest.

 

[pbi]

Without having read the Committee transcript, the MP sounds like someone who wants the public to directly twist the arms of the judiciary.  He  may even be disappointed we don't elect prosecutors and judges.

A position often taken by politicians at both ends of the political spectrum, and IMHO a disastrously bad one. People who urge this sort of thing always dwell in the happy assumption that the politicians and pressure groups manipulating the Judiciary will always be the ones THEY agree with. They never imagine themselves or someone they value, in court for something, and being tried and sentenced not by an impartial and educated legal system, but by mob pressure from people they really, really don't like.

If you want to change laws, there is a legislative process to do that, which allows politicians to meddle and grandstand to their hearts' delight. Once a law is made, let's leave it to the judiciary to enact it.

Separation of judiciary and politics, thanks very much.

 

[Journeyman]

I'm all for doubling or tripling the sentence for people who are generally assholes but if we singled out memorials for an increased punishment people would go out of their way to vandalize them just to make a point/protest.

          :goodpost:

 

[cupper]

Can we just start tazing the F#$% out of this guys?

National War Memorial: Man charged after 'fornicating the statue,' police say

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/national-war-memorial-man-charged-after-fornicating-the-statue-police-say-1.3178094

A 22-year-old man has been charged after police say he climbed the National War Memorial in Ottawa and began "fornicating the statue."

Ottawa police said in a news release that bystanders watched the man climb the memorial around 11:30 p.m. ET Sunday at the intersection of Sparks and Elgin streets.

The man was arrested at the scene and charged with mischief, police said. He appeared in court on Monday.

This is the same memorial where Cpl. Nathan Cirillo was fatally shot last October while on guard.

Guarding the monument became an issue when a man was captured on camera urinating on the statue in 2006.

Sentries began guarding the war memorial during the daytime in response to that incident, which involved a man and two boys who were later sentenced to community service.

Sentries continue to watch the memorial but do not stand guard overnight.

 

[George Wallace]

There is no end to the ways that some can prove that 'just when you saw/heard every thing' they can prove you wrong.  Also, there is no end to the line of really stupid people out there:

Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.

Young man caught "fornicating" a war memorial statue

OTTAWA CITIZEN
Published on: August 3, 2015 | Last Updated: August 3, 2015 6:01 PM EDT

A young man was arrested late Sunday after being caught “fornicating” a statue at the National War Memorial.

Ottawa police said Monday the 22-year-old had climbed the Sparks Street monument at about 11:30 p.m. Sunday and, according to passersby, “began fornicating the statue.” Witnesses noticed that he was wearing a T-shirt emblazoned with the phrase “I Need a Drink.”

The man was arrested at the scene after bystanders called police. He was held in custody overnight on a mischief charge and released after a brief court appearance Monday. Police said they will continue to investigate the matter, and more charges are possible.

The monument honours the country’s war dead and holds the remains of the Unknown Soldier, returned to Canada from France in 2000.

One passerby, Michael Smith, described the young man’s behaviour as “extremely offensive given what the memorial stands for.”

Sunday’s incident is similar to one in 2006 when a group of  young men were photographed urinating on the war memorial during Canada Day celebrations. Their actions sparked outrage across the country.

Two of the teenagers later apologized and were required to perform community service as a penalty. Another man, Stephen Fernandes, 23, of Montreal, was charged with mischief. He, too, apologized, although he claimed to have no memory of his actions.

More recently, on Remembrance Day in 2012, vandals defaced the Victory Peace memorial in Toronto Coronation Park, using a marker to scrawl the phrase “Canada will burn praise Allah”.

Anyone with information regarding this latest desecration is asked to contact the Ottawa Police Central District Investigations Unit at extension 5166 or  Crime Stoppers at 613-233-8477 (TIPS) or toll free at 1-800-222-8477.

More on LINK.

 

[Remius]

I really hope this isn't a serving or former member. 

 

[Edward Campbell]

There is no end to the ways that some can prove that 'just when you saw/heard every thing' they can prove you wrong.  Also, there is no end to the line of really stupid people out there:

Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.
More on LINK.

Actually, George, I think you (and the dipsticks who edit the Ottawa Citizen) will find that the word is "formicating" Formicate is a perfectly good English word that means to crawl about like an ant. Sloppy, semi-literate journalists ...

 

[MARS]

Actually, George, I think you (and the dipsticks who edit the Ottawa Citizen) will find that the word is "formicating" Formicate is a perfectly good English word that means to crawl about like an ant. Sloppy, semi-literate journalists ...

Not sure I would expect a "passerby" to use the word formicate in calling the cops, nor would I expect the Ottawa citizen to use such an uncommon word even if it is perfectly good english.  I am willing got bet the person was simulating fornicating with the statue. 

I don't think I have ever heard another human being use the word formicate, hell even the spellchecker doesn't recognize it

 

[The Bread Guy]

Actually, George, I think you (and the dipsticks who edit the Ottawa Citizen) will find that the word is "formicating" Formicate is a perfectly good English word that means to crawl about like an ant. Sloppy, semi-literate journalists ...

???
I'm as skeptical about media as the next guy, and I stand to be corrected when Ottawa Police publish the news release on their web page, but if two three media outlets report the same phrase from a police news release, I'm thinking the accused wasn't charged with crawling.  Besides, even the WORST bureaucratic writing wouldn't have "formicating" instead of "crawling on".

Edited to add:  This seems to confirm that the cops may have originally said "formicating", they meant .... the carnal (bronze) knowledge thing.

Police have corrected the release, saying the man was seen "fornicating" the statue on the National War Memorial.

 

[McG]

I believe ERC knows all this but is deliberately denying because that is easier than admitting the human species is inclusive of at least a few strands of DNA capable of such levels of stupidity.

Saddly, the stupidiots are out there.

 

[cavalryman]

...aaaand another village is short its obligatory idiot  :

 

[The Bread Guy]

I believe ERC knows all this but is deliberately denying because that is easier than admitting the human species is inclusive of at least a few strands of DNA capable of such levels of stupidity.

And to be fair, the accused would have had to formicate before fornicating ....

Saddly, the stupidiots are out there.

Oh yeah ....

 

[Old Sweat]

Whether it was form. . . or forn. . ., buddy has probably removed himself for consideration for the Order of Canada for several hundred years

 

[dapaterson]

Whether it was form. . . or forn. . ., buddy has probably removed himself for consideration for the Order of Canada for several hundred years

Until the ants take over.