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Canadian Surface Combatant RFQ

I take your point about getting the first "prototype" hull into the water. But how about after that? Could that one a year schedule not be compressed?
Getting the first hull into the water will take a few years, but you have to remember it's not just a hull, it's pretty extensively fitted out by that point with wiring, piping and equipment already done inside. The goal is to eventually get it down to 1 a year, but that's likely after the first batch.

Compressing the first ship is a terrible idea though; the first few AOPs were rushed and accepted with a ludicrous number of defects and a lot were never actually fixed, which is still impacting capability today and why they have a red deck for helo ops..
 
Its not even friggin close. Meko 200 are just modernized CPF's. Tier 2 is less about weapons and more about sensors.
That REALLY depends on which iteration of the MEKO 200 you are referring to. The CPF, especially the HCM CPFs, are far superior to the MEKO 200, and just slightly behind the MEKO A-200s (that being said, those being THALES based ships, I wouldn't trust them either ;))
 
That REALLY depends on which iteration of the MEKO 200 you are referring to. The CPF, especially the HCM CPFs, are far superior to the MEKO 200, and just slightly behind the MEKO A-200s (that being said, those being THALES based ships, I wouldn't trust them either ;))
Assuming the weapons and sensors package on the CPF are supported by the floating mass of rust and brass that is hopefully heading in generally the same direction? If all else fails, there is always dirty power to blame!:giggle:
 
Assuming the weapons and sensors package on the CPF are supported by the floating mass of rust and brass that is hopefully heading in generally the same direction? If all else fails, there is always dirty power to blame!:giggle:
If you don't look for the rust, you can't find the rust; if you don't find any rust, is it really there? ;)
 
If you don't look for the rust, you can't find the rust; if you don't find any rust, is it really there? ;)
I feel like there is a lost opportunity for an RCN version of Obi Wan with 'this is not the rust you seek' meme of some sort. The AI scans are pretty hilarious as it's more 'detected rust' sections then clear in a lot of areas. Thanks Hal, I needed help to see the giant orange patches.
 
Well rust does mean there is still metal in there still…
 
Public update regarding the Canadian Surface Combatant Land-Based Testing Facility to be constructed at Hartlen Point in Eastern Passage, Nova Scotia for anybody interested.

Early site preparation work

The first phase of site preparation, brush clearing and tree removal, occurred at Hartlen Point from early March to April 2023.

The second phase of site preparation began in April 2023 and has now been extended until fall 2024. The second phase of site work consists of laying gravel for roadway access to the building site and grading, delineating of the construction zone for security and safety purposes, extension of site services (connecting to Halifax Water) and construction of a water meter building. To gain some schedule efficiencies and maintain progress while design continues, the design team has identified additional early works packages that can be implemented including installation of culverts, excavation and backfilling, and potentially early foundation works.

Construction of the Canadian Surface Combatant Land-Based Testing Facility (LBTF) will now take place between winter 2025 (as early as January 2025) and late fall 2027. This construction activity includes building the facility and supporting infrastructure including security fencing, parking lot, roads, and utilities. See the most recent rendering of the LBTF below (Figure 1) for reference. While construction is expected to be complete by Fall 2027, timing is subject to change based on the progress of the design and construction process.

Latest-LBTF-Rendering-862x231.png

Preliminary render of the facility.

LBTF-Site-Plan-Fall-2023.png

Site plan.

About the Land-Based Testing Facility

To help bring the new CSC ships into service and support them throughout their lifecycle, the Department of National Defence (DND) is building a Land-Based Testing Facility (LBTF) on a portion of DND-owned land at Hartlen Point in Eastern Passage, Nova Scotia. This project will test and integrate the ships’ capability systems before being installed on the actual vessels. The LBTF is critical to ensuring the new ships are ready to support members of the Canadian Armed Forces as they protect the sovereignty and security of Canadian waters and contribute to international operations on behalf of all Canadians.

Canada is a maritime nation, and the LBTF is an important, one-of-a-kind facility that will foster innovation and support sustainable growth in Canada’s marine industry. During construction and operation, the LBTF will contribute to the economy and to jobs and growth in the region. It is estimated that more than 10,000 Canadian jobs will be created or maintained throughout the 25-year construction period of the CSC ships, and the LBTF project is expected to sustain almost 350 jobs in the Halifax region throughout the various construction phases. Once complete, the facility will accommodate 120 full-time staff, including members of the RCN, DND employees and contractors.
 
Well rust does mean there is still metal in there still…
Eventually you get a rust sandwich, which sometimes is all that is left better the paint coating and insulation backing. Weird experience to poke through a steel bulkhead with your finger and see a chunk of it just sort of dissolve as you break up whatever was holding it in place.
 
Would love to get a posting there. The commute would be amazing as you're going opposite the normal traffic flow.
Just don't interact with the locals near 'bouts those ways. They're pissed about this.

Of course, somebody is always pissed about something; imagine, DND using their own restricted land for a logical military reason, and not leaving it so people can go birdwatching there!
 
What is a red deck?
Shorthand for not allowed to do helo ops.

To keep it simple, the other is 'green deck' but has different classes and levels for the restrictions (day only, full capability etc). It comes from SHOPs (shipborne helo operation procedural?) manual for the CAF. It's under review generally but AOPs has some equipment issues from build, as well as big training and SOP gaps to figure out.

It's a combination of the equipment arrangement generally meeting the standard, as well as being in date for maintenance etc, having tactics and procedures in place, as well as people qualified to do that. Right now there are equipment issues, no tactics or procedures (so you can't qualify a team) and also there was never any updates to the trainers to bring in some of the new equipment that comes with AOPs for helos.

Some is on the RCN side, but Canada shouldn't have accepted the ships as meeting IOC, and also should have probably started fixing things on the ships still under delivery. So far it's been 3 years though and things are still getting accepted even knowing they need fixed. Some of them are pretty fundamental too like missing handrails, holes on the flight deck netting being too big (so someone could fall through them when they are down for helo ops), lighting issues etc.

Some of it was because the requirements were missed, but instead of updating the requirements and getting it fixed in build, it's getting passed to in service to figure out, so we'll keep paying ISI to build something that we know doesn't work, then pay someone else to remove it and fix it, vice just paying them to fix it the first time.

Shouldn't be similar for CSC, as the requirements were different and included a lot of specific things above and beyond commercial class rules, but a lot of this is more lack of actual will from GoC with things like backing from PSPC or PMO pushing back that is stopping it from being fixed. Hard to do I guess when the company just calls some MPs directly when DND grows a backbone and it costs them money.

From the RCN side I don't get it though, as we aren't ready for the ships anyway and don't have crews for them, so accepting a ship with hundreds of defects (which is an improvement on thousands) doesn't actually benefit them, other than a nice photo for twitter.
 
GHhI1RVWIAMVyir


Photo of the multi-mission bay of HMS Glasgow, currently fitting out. The handling system has yet to be fitted on the overhead rails but I thought it was a good visual on the size of the bay itself. These handling systems are being made at the newly expanded RR Centre of Excellence for Naval Handling Equipment in Ontario.
 
It is really big.
GHhI1RVWIAMVyir


Photo of the multi-mission bay of HMS Glasgow, currently fitting out. The handling system has yet to be fitted on the overhead rails but I thought it was a good visual on the size of the bay itself. These handling systems are being made at the newly expanded RR Centre of Excellence for Naval Handling Equipment in Ontario.
It is really big.
 
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