Canadian President

[Flip]

And yes Dion is somewhat justified in calling Harper Bush lite. "President" Harper rules his cabinet, shuffling the bodies will make no difference because he micro manages and has no real trust in his ministers.

Of coarse he micro manages.
He is the leader of a new bunch of MPs that form a minority government.
(I think) the style of the government would be different if there were a
majority in place.

And Bush is the worst in history?!? - I doubt it.
If Kerry had won that second term out from under GW we would see "worst in history".

Personally, I think Harper will get along fine with the likely Pres. Clinton.
The two political systems are not that closely linked. They don't have to be partisan
with each other.  Hillary is probably as conservative as Harper is. Harper is probably
as liberal as Hillary.

 

[Greymatters]

Anti-Americanism is the new fad. 

No, its been around too long to be a fad.  It is now ingrained in our culture. 

 

[DaveTee]

It's become more of a hatred. It used to be just jokingly (in my experiences anyhow) and now it's like a fanatical hatred in a lot of small minded people.

 

[Bane]

Most Americans don't like their own government, why would any one expect many Canadians to like it.  He is a very a bad president, and Canada is very much affected by U.S. policy right across the board, and there is a lot of legitimate, realist, concerns about many polices and positions that his administration takes and how they might affect us[ boarder crossing, Logging issues, Water access and NAFTA integration, NW passage rights, not to mention social issues etc...]  There has also been a tension between the U.S. and (proto)-Canada since long before the war of independence, and I'm willing to bet it's been worse at some point in the past and that it is a permanent feature of the North American political landscape. That said, America is not a nazi-totalitarian state as many leftist alarmists, and ultra-libertarians, have been claiming for several decades now, and thank God they are not; but their country is, for the good of Canada and progressive civilization as a whole, in need of a revitalization of itself. I think many people, American, Canadian and otherwise pick up on that idea at least in part, yet perhaps do not articulate it very well.  I, for one, hold a great a appreciation and for Americans and their attitude in general, and an intense dislike for their government. 

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

No, its been around too long to be a fad.  It is now ingrained in our culture.   

I would agree. This has been around for a long time and is not a fad. when I was in HS and University in Ottawa (back in the dark ages) it was very chic for alot of students to go and protest outside the US Embassy on Wellington St. The Vietnam war was on at the time and peace signs and "love is all you need" were au courant. I even attended one of those protests out of curiosity just to see what it was all about. I was 17 and found the whole thing pretty stupid. It was really just an excuse for a bunch of extremely biased and uninformed people to smoke a lot of dope and chant a lot of tripe.  M. Dion et al and Mr Layton are simply playing a well known tune in Canada. It's called "Pull the Tail Feathers off the Eagle." As long as the eagle doesn't notice, they think it looks cool to go waving the trophy feathers around in public. Mr Chretien got burned playing that game as he lost a lot of credibility in the US due to the fact that they noticed. Unfortunately Canadians suffered because of it. Mr Dion is a Chretien clone...what do you expect of him?,

 

[DaveTee]

Those are good points...I guess it just seems new to me because I haven't had much exposure to it until recently. I think it's fair for people to dislike a government, but you can't blame day to day Americans, as has been recently said. I think that is a fair position to take. On the other hand the view that "all Americans suck" is just rubbish, as we seem to all agree.

 

[Flip]

Modern America is like ancient Rome.
You might be a Roman subject but there are only a few Roman citizens.

If all of the people who lived under American influence could vote
in US elections or had some sway over how said
influence applies to them there would be little "anti-Americanism".

We all periodically forget how American influence benefits us - we just get
grumpy about a lack of control.  We find our country is at war.
It's easier to blame GWB than apply the the blame to the enemy.
(ridiculous of course)

What is remarkable, is that so many people in so many countries have democratic
processes, politics and agendas of their own while still sharing the big umbrella.

 

[retiredgrunt45]

All this "anti-american" sentiment has put a bur under my seat. How different are we from the Americans? If anyone sat down and tried to "honestly" write down on a piece of paper the real differences between our two countries, they would be hard pressed to find very many. I'm a proud Canadian, but I'm also not going to fool myself, by saying we are so different from the Americans.

The fact is there isn't. Our two societies are so closely woven together, that we could be called one in the same, this will probably miff some people, but it's the fact of the matter. Just as we share a continent, we also share 90% of each others culture, not 50, not 75, but 90%. We have more in common with the Americans, that any anyone else on the planet. And if you think otherwise, your are just fooling yourself. So for those Canadians who would bash the Americans, your also bashing yourself. Keep that in mind the next time you find yourself on a "anti-american" rant, or the next time you stop at a McDonald's and buy a "Big Mac". like it or not, we all embrace American culture, the very same culture some of us find so evil. If that's the case, stop buying American automobiles, stop buying fast food, I didn't think so... It's one thing to bash a government and it's policies, it's another entirely to bash a country as a whole. I myself personally have some very close dear American friends, who would do almost anything for me, as I would for them. We visit on holidays, vacations at each others spots etc. When I'm in the US, people treat me very well and I do the same, when they come to Canada. Differences. what differences?

And to add, that if Canada was ever seriously threatened by outside forces, whether they be terrorist or other. Who do you think would be the first ones to come to our aid? As we would do the same for them.

And to name a few in a long list of similarities.

1. Economic infrastructure
2. Trade (90% of what we produce or manufacturer is traded to the US)
3. Language (English, french, Spanish)
4. Democracy (Same)
5. Cultural backgrounds (immigrants, with exception to the first nations)
6. Entertainment (we all like American entertainment)
7. Industry ( Auto industry, steel, oil, food...) Do I have to go on.
8. Business opportunities and development (This one has to many to list)
9. Education
10. Currency
11. Defence (We have more military personal on liaison positions with the Americans than any other country in the world) NORAD, the Pentagon, Joint forces training etc.

 

[observor 69]

All true RG but make sure you buy that travel health insurance next time before going down. 
I have friends and relatives who are Americans and I spent a few years working in Texas. But I must point out that our social programs protect our citizens more effectively than theirs. Our financially sound CPP and  Old Age pension, plus our universal health insurance program, being the big ones.

 

[Remius]

It has been around for while.  Like since the late 1700's when 50 000+ loyalists were forced north of the border after the war of independance.  Then not long after the war of 1812.  Is it part of the culture?  Yes.  Is it hatred?  I doubt it.  I'm not  a big fan of the American political system or some policies but I like most Americans I've met.  Yeah, the ones in South Carolina are certainly different, nice people, polite and some don't know anything about anything outside their own county.  Oh and Alaskans are pretty nice too, very much like people from the Yukon.  So on and so on.  Just like Canada we have a diverse multitude of people.  I like the heart on your sleeve attitude of maritimers but I'm not too fond of the Toronto "centre of the universe" attitude.  Etc etc.  Same goes for the states.  You may not like the republicans but you may like the Democrats.  Blah blah.  How many Americans were accomodated in Canada after the 911 crashes?  Not bad for a country that "hates" the US.

Maybe Wes can expand on this.  When I was in Australia, I found New Zealanders had a similar view of Australia, that Canadians have/had of the US.

Anyway, the point is that this will always be a part of our culture, but we are more alike than we like to think.  And it isn't hate, we just don't take a shine to the loud popular kid in school.  But we'll still help him with his homework for a little attention  ;D

 

[Greymatters]

All this "anti-american" sentiment has put a bur under my seat. How different are we from the Americans? If anyone sat down and tried to "honestly" write down on a piece of paper the real differences between our two countries, they would be hard pressed to find very many. I'm a proud Canadian, but I'm also not going to fool myself, by saying we are so different from the Americans. 

I think it is these similarities you quote that prop up and continue to drive continued anti-US sentiments.  Because we are so similiar it becomes even more important to differentiate between 'us' and 'them'.  Yes, Canadians are like Americans in a lot of ways, possibly up to 90% of our ways, but there are also key differences in culture, history and organization that make up the other 10% and we want everyone to know about it because we hate it when people in other countries think there is no difference between us, the same as when visitors confuse Belgique and French, or Italian and Sicilian. 

As you see I am taking you up on this challenge.  Here are a few differences I can see:

1. The right to bear arms - the US fought for its independence and embedded the right of arms into their consititution, while it was handed to us free on a platter as a defensive measure against US expansion. 
2. Foreign policy - the US has throughout history believed it has the right to 'correct' countries which do not think the same way as they do.  I dont believe Canada has ever 'invaded' another country (I'm sure anti-war groups will dispute this, but there you are...).
3. Use of economic and diplomatic power - our country uses its political and economic influence far less agressively and more cooperatively than the US.
4. Respect for the military and military achievements - US citizens, on average, have far greater respect and suppoirt for their military than our population does.
5. Health care - nuf said.
6. Socialism - a lot of the ways we do things in Canada are regarded as 'communist' in the US.  They only call us 'socialist' to distinguish the bears from teh beavers.
7. Loyalty of entertainers and sports figures - too many of our (former) citizens go to the US because 'thats where the money is', which I dont blame them for doing if thats how you have to earn a living, but then they become US citizens permanently. 
8. Power of provinces versus states - our provinces have far less influence than a state has in regard to their right to control natural resources that the local populations are dependent on. 
9. Showing the flag - US citizens are proud to show the flag wherever they are, no matter where they are.  Canadians are far less 'flag-happy'. 
10. Popularity among other countries - again, nuf said. 

These are only my observations of course, and not everyone else may agree with them.  Regardless of the differences, I dont think they are enough to jusitify continued villification of a neighbouring country, especially since we are going to be neighbours for a long, long time. 

 

[Simon]

Perhaps its that this prime minister, Mr. Harper,  is the first PM in 3 decades not to have been in the employ of Power Corp. and thats driving the eastern Canadian elitist industrial complex nuts.

 

[Roy Harding]

I've been to a few places in my life - including the United States.  I've worked with the military from a few countries, including the United States.

Here's what I've seen - take it for what it's worth.

Just about every civilian I've ever met, ANYWHERE, is concerned with providing for his family, giving them a better life than he had, and is worried about their future.  Louis Armstrong's song - "Hello Brother" probably says what I'm trying to say much better than I ever could.

Just about every serviceman I've ever met, from ANY country, privately disagrees with his government's position on any number of topics, and yet works to carry out that government's policies at a significant risk to his own life and limb.

Just about every person I've met, ANYWHERE, is justifiably proud of his home country.

Just about every serviceman I've met, from ANY country, is in despair regarding the civilians back home.

Just about everybody I've met will take umbrage at being classified as "the same as ... " some other country.  Germans/Austrians.  Kiwis/Aussies.  Poles/Ukrainians.  Canadians/Americans.  You name it.

I wish we as Canadians would be proud of who we ARE, what we HAVE, and what we DO - instead of spending time and energy to convince others of what we're NOT.

Roy

 

[midget-boyd91]

I wish we as Canadians would be proud of who we ARE, what we HAVE, and what we DO - instead of spending time and energy to convince others of what we're NOT.

That deserves to be plastered across every airwave and every TV program. We've all taken it for granted that most of us don't realize that the mixed personal opinions of a family half a world away have no effect on how we feel about our home.

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

My son just got back from working in Texas for the summer on a student visa. I've never seen anyone happier to be "home" in my life. Now part of that is that he likes his Mama's home cooking and living rent free in my basement.....but the other part is that he has stated to me un-categorically that "we are way different than Americans!" Don't shoot me I'm just the messanger and don't get me wrong, he enjoyed his time there. He graduated in May from St Mary's U so this isn't a dumb know nothing kid talking. In the course of my military career he's met a lot of different nationalities etc but living in a "foreign country" for 4 months opens your eyes to cultural and sociological differences.
I need to talk with him more to find out why he thinks that way but I think he got a real shock when talking to young people his age about the level of ignorance about people from other countries and cultures. As St Mary's was like going to school with the UN he takes for granted the respect and knowledge he has for other countries and cultures I guess.

 

[Roy Harding]

My son just got back from working in Texas for the summer on a student visa. I've never seen anyone happier to be "home" in my life. Now part of that is that he likes his Mama's home cooking and living rent free in my basement.....but the other part is that he has stated to me un-categorically that "we are way different than Americans!" Don't shoot me I'm just the messanger and don't get me wrong, he enjoyed his time there. He graduated in May from St Mary's U so this isn't a dumb know nothing kid talking. In the course of my military career he's met a lot of different nationalities etc but living in a "foreign country" for 4 months opens your eyes to cultural and sociological differences.
I need to talk with him more to find out why he thinks that way but I think he got a real shock when talking to young people his age about the level of ignorance about people from other countries and cultures. As St Mary's was like going to school with the UN he takes for granted the respect and knowledge he has for other countries and cultures I guess.

The first experience always is "eye opening".

It's not 'till later that you start realizing the similarities - it sounds like you've a fine son - I'm sure he'll do well.

 

[Old Sweat]

IHS

We often forget that we are sitting beside a superpower. That is not the case for the US, and Texans are probably focussed on Mexico and points south. The US is also a big country with the population distributed fairly evenly across it; hence Iowa or Oregon or Maine is near foreign to a Texan.

My wife taught school when we were posted in the US. She noted that state and then national history were well taught; the rest was more or less left by the wayside.

Sweatie

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

IHS

We often forget that we are sitting beside a superpower. That is not the case for the US, and Texans are probably focussed on Mexico and points south. The US is also a big country with the population distributed fairly evenly across it; hence Iowa or Oregon or Maine is near foreign to a Texan.

My wife taught school when we were posted in the US. She noted that state and then national history were well taught; the rest was more or less left by the wayside.

Sweatie

I think he was quite taken aback by the chauvinism...not just male chauvinism although that is present to some degree....but the idea that Texas and the US is all you need to know about, It's daunting for a kid who's been raised to believe that other countries and cultures deserve respect and understanding. He did say that where he was, in Austin, was a lot different than where he spent his final month, Houston. He found the folks in Austin to be much more cosmopolitan than in Houston but that wasn't saying a lot. I agree that it's a big country but I'm not sure that that excuses not being intellectually curious about the rest of the country or the world, especially by those with a post secondary education.
Having said that I remember visiting in Florida one year (1972) and finding it difficult to get National i.e. US news, let alone international news and finding it quite odd that a state that plays host to the world's snow birds would be so parochial.

 

[TCBF]

Perhaps its that this prime minister, Mr. Harper,  is the first PM in 3 decades not to have been in the employ of Power Corp. and thats driving the eastern Canadian elitist industrial complex nuts.

- Good first post!  Will anyone rise to dispute the un-disputable?

op:

 

[GAP]

My son just got back from working in Texas for the summer on a student visa. I've never seen anyone happier to be "home" in my life. Now part of that is that he likes his Mama's home cooking and living rent free in my basement.....but the other part is that he has stated to me un-categorically that "we are way different than Americans!" Don't shoot me I'm just the messanger and don't get me wrong, he enjoyed his time there. He graduated in May from St Mary's U so this isn't a dumb know nothing kid talking. In the course of my military career he's met a lot of different nationalities etc but living in a "foreign country" for 4 months opens your eyes to cultural and sociological differences.
I need to talk with him more to find out why he thinks that way but I think he got a real shock when talking to young people his age about the level of ignorance about people from other countries and cultures. As St Mary's was like going to school with the UN he takes for granted the respect and knowledge he has for other countries and cultures I guess.

30+ years ago it was the same....very self focused. Made may good friends etc. but as a rule of thumb, most just dismissed everywhere else as unimportant.