Canadian Forces Officer guilty of wearing unearned medals.

[Jarnhamar]

I'm 3 days short for my second Afghan bar, I wonder if anyone would notice an extra bar popping on there..

Honestly though, for such a blatant series of poor judgements as a leader (showing zero integrity) why wouldn't she be demoted?

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I'm 3 days short for my second Afghan bar, I wonder if anyone would notice an extra bar popping on there..

Honestly though, for such a blatant series of poor judgements as a leader (showing zero integrity) why wouldn't she be demoted?

Because it would completely screw up her pension.

 

[captloadie]

Because it would completely screw up her pension.

It wouldn't affect her pension at all, as it is based on the average of your best five years. Not the rank you retire with.

 

[kratz]

I agree with captloadie, but revision in rank and all the attendant consequences are part of the punishment.

 

[captloadie]

We all agree that what the individual did demonstrated a serious lack in judgment and integrity.

However, if you research the CMJ site and see what punishments have been handed out for both Officers and NCMs, reduction in rank and/or dismissal are very rare occurrences. In the recent past, they are normally only doled out where there is a loss of life or sexual assault. In the grand scope of things, wearing unauthorized medals may say alot about the person's character, but isn't really a heinous crime. We can't punish people simply because who they are and what they did outrages us. It must meet the crime.

And although I'm only guessing, the reason she was likely allowed to plead out was it would have been up to the prosecution to prove:
a) she hadn't earned the medals; and
b) she knew without she wasn't entitled to wear them.
I'm guessing this would have been difficult without an agreed statement of fact.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Because it would completely screw up her pension.

It wouldn't affect her pension at all, as it is based on the average of your best five years. Not the rank you retire with.

I'm thinking RD's sarcasm meter was ridin' high with that post........

 

[Bzzliteyr]

We all agree that what the individual did demonstrated a serious lack in judgment and integrity.

However, if you research the CMJ site and see what punishments have been handed out for both Officers and NCMs, reduction in rank and/or dismissal are very rare occurrences. In the recent past, they are normally only doled out where there is a loss of life or sexual assault. In the grand scope of things, wearing unauthorized medals may say alot about the person's character, but isn't really a heinous crime. We can't punish people simply because who they are and what they did outrages us. It must meet the crime.

And although I'm only guessing, the reason she was likely allowed to plead out was it would have been up to the prosecution to prove:
a) she hadn't earned the medals; and
b) she knew without she wasn't entitled to wear them.
I'm guessing this would have been difficult without an agreed statement of fact.

*raises hand*

I got reduction in rank to cpl from sgt on a summary trial. Disobeying a lawful command. Request for review brought me back up but it happens.

Courts martial aren't the only disciplinary measures out there. We're only up in arms because 1. she took a court martial and 2. the media told us about things.

If she had taken a summary trial we probably wouldn't even know it happened. One of the reasons for military justice is to provide an example to others what NOT to do... I wish there were a site that published those results. I think it would be a wake up call for everyone.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

I was under the impression that at her rank she doesn't have the option for summary trial.

*raises hand*

I got reduction in rank to cpl from sgt on a summary trial. Disobeying a lawful command. Request for review brought me back up but it happens.

Courts martial aren't the only disciplinary measures out there. We're only up in arms because 1. she took a court martial and 2. the media told us about things.

If she had taken a summary trial we probably wouldn't even know it happened. One of the reasons for military justice is to provide an example to others what NOT to do... I wish there were a site that published those results. I think it would be a wake up call for everyone.

 

[The_Falcon]

*raises hand*

I got reduction in rank to cpl from sgt on a summary trial. Disobeying a lawful command. Request for review brought me back up but it happens.

Courts martial aren't the only disciplinary measures out there. We're only up in arms because 1. she took a court martial and 2. the media told us about things.

If she had taken a summary trial we probably wouldn't even know it happened. One of the reasons for military justice is to provide an example to others what NOT to do... I wish there were a site that published those results. I think it would be a wake up call for everyone.

Summary trial wasn't an option, since she was facing 3x charges for " unlawful use of military uniforms or certificates " which is a criminal code charge (s.419) and not one that is triable at summary trial. (http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/qro-orf/vol-02/chapter-chapitre-108-eng.asp para 3a )

 

[Haggis]

If she had taken a summary trial we probably wouldn't even know it happened.

NDA 164(1) A superior commander may try an accused person by summary trial if all of the following conditions are satisfied:
a. the accused person is an officer below the rank of lieutenant-colonel ......

 

[The_Falcon]

I was under the impression that at her rank she doesn't have the option for summary trial.

That too.

 

[Bzzliteyr]

Derp. I stand corrected. 3 times.

I'll sneak back to my line of thinking that even summary trials should have their results posted. Sure, hide names but ranks and trade could be kept so we could actually learn from Pte Bloggins and Sgt Jenesaispas.

 

[eliminator]

Just asking a question.  I know when I received my Corrections Exemplary Service Medal there was also a certificate issued.  Is this the same for medals issued in the Armed Forces?
Reason I ask is where did she buy (I assume she bought the medal) the medals.  And if someone is selling medals without verifying that the purchaser is entitled to have the medals shouldn't the seller be investigated and charged too

Tom

Copy/replica medals are easily obtainable from a variety of military outfitters for about $10 each. These can be used for a variety of purposes, such as family displays and likes. There is no requirement for the seller to verify the military records of the buyer. Why would there be? If you decided to purchase and unlawfully wear medals you haven't been awarded, that's your problem.

Original medals can be acquired from coin/medal dealers, but typically there are quite expensive.

I was under the impression that she was at a mess dinner when she was "ousted", perhaps she was wearing miniature medals? Technically, they aren't the medals themselves, but miniature "representations" purchased at personal expense.

What medals was she wearing exactly? Operational? Commemorative?

 

[The_Falcon]

Derp. I stand corrected. 3 times.

I'll sneak back to my line of thinking that even summary trials should have their results posted. Sure, hide names but ranks and trade could be kept so we could actually learn from Pte Bloggins and Sgt Jenesaispas.

I have seen summay trial results posted in base/unit RO's (Meaford for example).

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Same At Kapyong in Wpg

I have seen summay trial results posted in base/unit RO's (Meaford for example).

 

[sidemount]

Summary trial results were always posted in the monthly unit ROs as well, when I was posted to 2 horse.

 

[Vell]

Please enlighten a civvie trying to understand these articles (I'm just an applicant at the moment).

-Aren't medals only awarded and given to members of the CAF (at all ranks, both NCM and Officer) only after they have been confirmed to have be earned and then generally presented in some sort of ceremony (in a very obvious manner)?

-Wouldn't anyone buying a replica medal that they were never granted before know full well when they are putting that replica on their uniform that they did not earn it?

-Is it acceptable to put replica medals on your uniform if you have received an officially granted version of it before (Perhaps so you can for example; keep the real one safely in a display)?

-Is it possible to be officially awarded a medal and not actually receive it in which case some people may go buy one instead (and be allowed to wear it)?

I ask because I am trying to understand how anyone (especially a high ranking officer) can possibly 'accidentally' put on a medal they have not earned.

 

[Haggis]

-Aren't medals only awarded and given to members of the CAF (at all ranks, both NCM and Officer) only after they have been confirmed to have be earned and then generally presented in some sort of ceremony (in a very obvious manner)?

Yes.  An exception to this is medals awarded by a foreign government (i.e. the US Bronze Star).  Permission must be sought from The Chancellery of Honours before the medals may be worn.

-Wouldn't anyone buying a replica medal that they were never granted before know full well when they are putting that replica on their uniform that they did not earn it?

They would indeed. 

-Is it acceptable to put replica medals on your uniform if you have received an officially granted version of it before (Perhaps so you can for example; keep the real one safely in a display)?

Yes.  However, you should only wear originals.  If the originals are lost/stolen they can be replaced with duplicates.  An exception to this would be rare or foreign medals.

-Is it possible to be officially awarded a medal and not actually receive it in which case some people may go buy one instead (and be allowed to wear it)?

I suppose it is possible.  However, records that that medal was awarded would be avialable either in hard copy in the member's pers file, electronically in HRMS (PeopleSoft) or from the Chancellery of Honours.

I ask because I am trying to understand how anyone (especially a high ranking officer) can possibly 'accidentally' put on a medal they have not earned.

I suppose one could put on the wrong medals "accidentally" if getting dressed while drunk or in complete darkness.

 

[PuckChaser]

My unit posts summary trial results in the ROs, as well as ordering any member of the unit without a pending task to observe. We then do question and answer with the presiding officer/RSM in which as long as questions are constructive, its an open forum.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

My unit posts summary trial results in the ROs, as well as ordering any member of the unit without a pending task to observe. We then do question and answer with the presiding officer/RSM in which as long as questions are constructive, its an open forum.

That is brilliant