Canada's First Nations - CF help, protests, solutions, etc. (merged)

[Remius]

Good on you, Crantor, for holding the completely unbiased moral high ground. Although I do think in life we have to have a little give and take otherwise life becomes exceedingly dull and run by the PC police.

I can`t claim to be completely unbiased or having the moral high ground.  I just found it ironic that on the same page we decry how the other side (yes I am calling them that) acts and we do the same thing.  That being said, I did smile at the comparasion.

At any rate.  The problem is that the INM is being overrun by professional activists.  They did it to occupy, they did it to the student movement and they are doing it here.  I heard more about palastine, and  corporate greed on that video than anything that adresses the INM issues.

 

[Jarnhamar]

At any rate.  The problem is that the INM is being overrun by professional activists.  They did it to occupy, they did it to the student movement and they are doing it here.  I heard more about palastine, and  corporate greed on that video than anything that adresses the INM issues.

I heard that and was confused. Since when was INM about palastine and jews and nazi's and corporations?

 

[Rifleman62]

http://jr2020.blogspot.com/2013/01/ezra-greets-idlenomores-pathetic-anti.html

Second video Ezra explains that it was him who the Police removed because it was the easy way out, not the right thing to do.

 

[Edward Campbell]

The root of the problem is found in and article in the National Post headlined: Harper leaves no doubt: Governor-General will not be included in any future First Nations policy discussions.

The article says: "Ms. Spence ... maintains that First Nations bands signed nation-to-nation treaties with the Crown — not Canada."

The problem is that Ms. Spence and the hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of people, FNs and others alike, who agree with her are Constitutionally illiterate.

The Crown and Canada are one: the Crown, as I have said several times in these pages, has three natures: on the bench, in parliament and in council. It is in that third nature, the Governor General in Council, that the Crown and Canada are one and same in so far as dealings with First Nations is concerned. Governor General David Johnston has inherited ALL of Queen Victoria's rights, duties and obligations (see King George VI's letters patent from 1947) and, like Queen Victoria, he delegates ALL policy issues to his Privy Council - to his cabinet. If Ms. Spence, or anyone else, is unable to grasp that simple concept then she cannot negotiate with any adult, much less the GG.

 

[Scott]

You know that Spence and her ilk aren't going to let something like that get in their way. Besides, they're too busy yelling to engage in rational discussion anyway. As far as the crowd that went to find Ezra Levant - same applies. Too busy screaming to hear what their own counterparts are saying.

:boring:

 

[Bluebulldog]

You know that Spence and her ilk aren't going to let something like that get in their way. Besides, they're too busy yelling to engage in rational discussion anyway. As far as the crowd that went to find Ezra Levant - same applies. Too busy screaming to hear what their own counterparts are saying.

:boring:

Found it interesting that at the beginning, most of the folks who confronted Ezra were not able to effectively articulate what exactly their complaints were, and instead simply fell back on the old nugget "racism"...as their main argument. Of course when prodded by an educated individual like Mr. Levant as to some of the more salient points of their position, they simply fell apart. So much so that at the end of the informal "gab session" their own handlers were trying to get most of them to simply shut up, realizing that most of them were in fact doing more damage than good.

The unfortunate part of all of this, is that there were probably people who were there ( the young guy in the white snowboard jacket) who were mislead, and lied to about a "cause" and the reasons for the whole show in the first place. But with woeful track record of reserves educating their people, he actually in fact indirectly served the argument for scrapping the Indian Act.

....and nothing in the news about Chief / Mayor Spence for over 24 hours now.......  ;D

 

[ArmyGuy99]

Here's the link to the interview with CTV Question Period

http://www.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=847501&binId=1.810401

I watched this and I'm even more convinced that she hasn't got a clue.  I'm even more convinced that she needs someone, a lawyer or Canadian History teacher, to teach her and her people/handlers etc, about our Charter and the various acts both here and in England that created our country, and what defines the crown exactly. 

I shake my head at this.  Even the host seemed bewildered at times. 

Has it been 15 min yet?

 

[Scott]

Label, denounce, repeat.

 

[Jarnhamar]

http://warriorpublications.wordpress.com/2013/01/18/oily-chiefs-idle-no-more-and-the-afn/

by Zig Zag, Warrior Publications, January 17, 2013Idle No More protect enviro sign

To fully understand the phenomenon of Idle No More, you must imagine two parallel universes. In one, INM is comprised of good-hearted grassroots Native people responding to a call to oppose Bill C-45 and to protect the land and water of their traditional territories. In the other, however, are chiefs using the mobilization to achieve their political & economic agenda, an agenda that includes partnering with corporations seeking to exploit oil and gas resources on reserve lands.

 

[Edward Campbell]

This might help explain the Crown's responsibilities towards First Nations. When we say Crown we mean, explicitly, the Government of Canada ~ Her Majesty's Government ~ the prime minister and cabinet. The Supremes have, fairly consistently, held that Canada a) has been less than fair and honest in its dealing with First Nations, sullying the "honour of the Crown" (disgracing ourselves, in other words) and b) must be ready to interpret treaties in the spirit in which they were entered into rather that insisting that we can simply conform the letter of the text.

 

[ModlrMike]

The irony is, I think, that THIS government actually wants to improve things, wants to renovate the Indian Act. The "industry" just won't let them do so.

 

[ballz]

I thought it was interesting that a few of the Liberal leadership candidates have proposed to get rid of the Indian Act as well.

IMO there can be no solution without the First Nations governments being forced to abide by some system of accountability. People are weak and are easily corrupted by greed and power, there is no shortage of historical evidence of that. No matter what we try to do, the results will never make it through the filter of corrupt leadership. Our modern day systems have evolved to a point that yes, they may be full of expensive red tape, but it is hard for someone to be corrupted without at least being caught. In the accounting world its always said along the lines of "You can't stop collusion, but you can make it a pain in the ass." In other words, make it so complicated and require so many people that it's just not worth the squeeze.

I think if the Conservatives can make that happen, either through negotation or forcing it through legislation (if that's even possible), they'll have done more for the First Nations than any government to date.

 

[Bluebulldog]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2013/01/23/attawapiskat-spence-hunger-strike.html

"A delegation that includes interim Liberal leader Bob Rae and northern Ontario deputy grand chief Alvin Fiddler has been working closely with Spence to hash out a dignified solution."



Translation....."I've used up my 15 minutes of fame, made a complete a$$ of myself, probably set back the First Nations cause, and need a way to get back home under the radar."

 

[Journeyman]

You forgot the bit about "nursing herself back to health."    :

 

[GAP]

You forgot the bit about "nursing herself back to health."    :

That's what Burger King is for.....

 

[Scott]

Shared with the usual caveats: http://thechronicleherald.ca/canada/507481-spence-to-lay-out-conditions-to-end-hunger-strike

Spence to lay out conditions to end hunger strike

January 23, 2013 - 8:46am By The Canadian Press

OTTAWA — Attawapiskat Chief Theresa Spence wants opposition parties and supporters to sign a 13-point declaration demanding immediate improvements to housing and schools on reserves.

A draft of the declaration has been obtained by The Canadian Press.

It lays out the conditions for resolving her liquids-only protest that has thrown the Ottawa-First Nations relationship into disarray for the last six weeks.

The draft declaration also says treaties should be fully implemented within five years and demands a thorough review of two Conservative government omnibus bills that dramatically changed environmental oversight.

Spence and her team are in the midst of delicate negotiations with chiefs and opposition parties on the final wording of the declaration and sources say agreement has not yet been reached.

:

 

[Remius]

That article sums it up when it states that Spence's hunger strike has thrown the relations between Ottawa and FNs into disarray.

I can't even begin to figure out how disjointed this entire thing has become.

Idle No More had (and I say had because I think it has lost its legitimacy because of people like Spence, professional activists that hoped on the band wagon and other attention seeking chiefs) the oportunity to bring valid issues and concerns to the fore and raise awareness of FN concerns.

Unfortunately it has been drowned out for several reasons.  Spence's hunger strike, likely designed to distract, did quite the opposite.  It shined a light and a microscope on financial mismanagement on some reserves.  And I say some because some are quite successful.  But if you want to get Canadians' attention tell them how mispent their tax money is.  I will not go so far as saying that what was done was criminal but I am positive that gross incompetance played a part.

Add to the mix what seems to be political infighting and posturing from the AFN and things start to spin. 

To make matters worse, actvists are highjacking the whole thing.  Palestine?  jews?  Corporate greed?  Really?  Thanks for coming out.

When it comes to FNs, they are a proud people (or peoples is more appropriate).  But so are Canadians (I realise FN are Canadians but I use this here in the non-FN context for contrast, so please forgive the slight).  Making threats and ultimatums don't work.  You see, Canadians are mostly moderates.  Extreme actions and extreme language kind of turns them off.

The problem lies in the fact that we have a plethora of FN tribes, bands etc accross the country and defining each issue takes a different approach.  I very much believe that multi lateral approaches are needed.  I think at the federal level, the Government should set the tone.  Scrap the Indian Act and find something more suitable and with the times.  Maybe an Aboriginal Charter or whatever that clearly defines FNs place in Canada as a whole.  But, there should be more negociations at the provincial, territorial and quite possibly municipal level.  i would like to think that some, like the Cree in Quebec with the James Bay treaty or the Inuit in Nunavut are examples of where this can work.  What's good for the Cree may not be good for the Haida of BC etc etc.  by giving the provinces more power to negotiate and deal, I believe we'll see better and more creative solution.

But at the same time FNs have to be willing to do so. Tantrums, pouting and posturing isn't going to get them what they want or need.  There has to be some give and take from both sides to make this work.

And don't kid yourself.  FN communities, while having perhaps more connection to the land because of their heritage, are also out to profit.  like anyone else.  Historically FNs have been very adaptable to new technolgies and tactics to their benefit.  Trading with Europeans to gain advantage over rivals was quite common.  The same can be said today.  And in our type of society today there is nothing wrong with that.  Ultimately they (FNs) will need to integrate fully into the system.  this does not mean sacrificing values and culture.  I said this before.  It's about bringing what they have to benefit themselves and our country as whole.  And the rest of Canada should leverage that to its benefit as well.  FNs are the fastest growing demographic in Canada.  We need to harness that.  The alternative is a powder keg of dissallusioned people all in their prime with nothing to lose. 

The world changes and I think that both sides, all sides, should change their approaches with it.   

 

[Jed]

Good post Crantor. I for one have this same point of view. My  :2c:

 

[Infanteer]

Well said Crantor.

 

[ModlrMike]

The real problem is that folks like Pam Palmater and her ilk conflate integration with assimilation. I think that most people, indeed most FN, would welcome the former over the later, were the rhetoric dialed down.