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Canada's First Nations - CF help, protests, solutions, etc. (merged)

PTN National News
OTTAWA–The “long silent war drums” of First Nations people will pound again if Attawapiskat Chief Theresa Spence dies from her hunger strike, says the head of Manitoba’s largest chiefs organization.

Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs Grand Chief Derek Nepinak issued the statement Sunday, the same day Assembly of First Nations National Chief Shawn Atleo released an open letter calling on Prime Minister Stephen Harper and Gov. Gen. David Johnston to agree to Spence’s demand and meet with First Nations leaders to discuss the treaties.

I see this as a large part of the problem whenever natives want to talk.

She, of course, is in a position to request anything she wishes.

She is in absolutely no position to demand anything of the PM, the GG or anyone else for that matter.

The fastest way to short circuit any negotiation or discussion is to demand that the other side acquiesce to your wants. Especially straight out of the gate.

War drums?? Pfffft. Empty threats and a road I don't think they seriously want to consider as an alternative. The Canadian public has long run out of patience with occupations, roadblocks and threats to our well being created by domestic terrorists. People like McGuinty won't have sheeple constituents that are willing to roll over and take it up the ass again for the sake of non-confrontation.
 
ObedientiaZelum said:
More funnies from the FB page.


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Chief Spence - the equivalent of nelson Mandela

Whoever made this one up failed miserably. It wasn't intended to be used to promote greed and selfishness.
 
recceguy said:
I see this as a large part of the problem whenever natives want to talk.

She, of course, is in a position to request anything she wishes.

She is in absolutely no position to demand anything of the PM, the GG or anyone else for that matter.

The fastest way to short circuit any negotiation or discussion is to demand that the other side acquiesce to your wants. Especially straight out of the gate.

War drums?? Pfffft. Empty threats and a road I don't think they seriously want to consider as an alternative. The Canadian public has long run out of patience with occupations, roadblocks and threats to our well being created by domestic terrorists. People like McGuinty won't have sheeple constituents that are willing to roll over and take it up the ass again for the sake of non-confrontation.

My thoughts exactly.  The minute you start demanding something people are inclined to reply GFYS.

"Beating war drums" is a typical asinine comment I've come to expect and a great way to alienate many Canadians who may be sympathetic to the issue. I was genuinely interested to hear what the chiefs had to say on this issue up to that point. Now they just sound like domestic terrorists.



Under the mental health act if I threaten to harm myself I can get arrested and brought to a hospital to be checked out right?
Wouldn't actively partaking in a hungerstrike (while making comments if I die then I am okay with it) something that would fall under willingly injuring yourself and subject to the MHA?

I can't say I will hang myself or shoot myself but I can say I will starve myself to death?
 
While they may say that such words ("war drums") were used figuratively, the word "war" has a very clear connotation to the rest of Canadians, and risks alienating Canadians from the fundamental nature of First Nations people's concerns.

My greatest concern as a Canadian who wants to see First Nations treated equitably and fairly is the well-known issue of inequality and systemic unfair treatment WITHIN A number of First Nations communities.  The concerns by a number of members of the Attawapiskat Nation regarding alleged inequitable distributions to members of Federally-provided funding are troubling, particularly in light of Chief Spences' refusal to provide openness of internal Band records to the distribution of monies to all Attawapiskat community members.

Perhaps in the spirit of open dialogue, if the PM and Minister did agree to meet with First Nations representatives, they could be met with a provision of records that Federally monies given to communities had in fact been distributed equitably (as it appears may not have been the case at Attawapiskat).

Regards
G2G
 
Simple. Defund the Band Council, pay each bandmember a proportional share of the $$ available to that band. If they want to do something collectively, then pitch your share in, or not.
 
GAP said:
Simple. Defund the Band Council, pay each bandmember a proportional share of the $$ available to that band. If they want to do something collectively, then pitch your share in, or not.

Pay the Band members and let the Band Council levee Municipal Taxes on them, like the rest of us folks.

 
This is the type of shit that REALLY pisses me off.  Why, why, why are they allowed to pull this kind of crap?  If I shut down a highway, will the police stand by and watch?  Nope, no double standards in play here.  Wonder what would happen if a bunch of people protested their protesting and blocked them from getting back home. 

Any little smidge of sympathy I may have felt for these 'protesters', if they had done things the way everyone else in Canada is expected to, is gone.  I am one Canadian who is beyond tired of this BS happening, and nothing being done about it because "we wouldn't want to offend anyone".  ::)

It wasn't 'dozens, more like 200 of them and they pretty much shut the 102 down. 

Article Link

Idle No More protests begin in Nova Scotia

Dozens of aboriginal people in Nova Scotia are joining a national day of action and protesting in two parts of the province.

They gathered Friday in Millbrook and on the Canso Causeway to speak out against the federal government's omnibus budget Bill C-45 and its effect on the Aboriginal community.

In a release, the organizers of the Nova Scotia events say they're concerned about the "imposition of water boil orders, prohibited hunting and fishing, community land rights and hindered traditional ideals which would remove importance of culture from generations to come."

Meanwhile, the RCMP are warning people about possible traffic delays along Highway 102 between 10 a.m. and 4 p.m.

Police are putting up safety barriers that will reduce the north and southbound lanes to one lane at the Truro Power Center near Exit 13A.

The CBC's Paul Palmeter reported a 30 minute delay for drivers trying to get through the area.
 
Water boil order imposition?  Fuck em, don't warn them, they can drink water traditionally and have everything from the lungs down fall out their assholes, fucking idiots.  They're given money to make their water drinkable, because they'd rather spend it on a new snow machine every other year is not my problem.
 
Eye In The Sky said:
Wonder what would happen if a bunch of people protested their protesting and blocked them from getting back home. 

You'd be branded a racist by the media and thrown under the proverbial bus.
 
PuckChaser said:
You'd be branded a racist by the media and thrown under the proverbial bus.

Just like OPP Sgt Ken Dean was.
 
A good blog comment on the situation. IF enough taxpayers were to pressure their MP's and MPPs in this direction, there might be some more political will to keep moving in the direction of accountability

http://www.parl.gc.ca/MembersOfParliament/MainMPsCompleteList.aspx?TimePeriod=current:

http://cruxofthematterblog.wordpress.com/2012/12/21/idle-no-more-first-nations-campaign-about-entitlements-vs-responsibilities/

“Idle No More” First Nations campaign about entitlements vs responsibilities

While I don’t usually write about federal politics anymore, I could not ignore the current “Idle No More“ campaign by Canada’s Aboriginal peoples and what used to be the Occupy movement.

They are allegedly protesting against a Harper Government’s omnibus budget bill which, they say, will adversely affect First Nations treaties.

They are also protesting that the Harper Government is not consulting enough or doing enough — which is puzzling to most Canadians, particularly Conservatives, because they know the Harper Government has focused on this community more than most previous governments.

For example, on my list of accomplishments for the period 2006-2011, the Harper government:

    Made a formal parliamentary apology (#5); Made Arctic Sovereignty a priority (#6); Brought in gender equality for Native women (#22); Signed the Indian Residential Agreement and set up a Reconciliation Commission (#33); Settled 800+ land claims agreements, more than any previous federal government (#39); Announced a Northern Regional Development Economic Agency (#43); and Completed the Nunavik Inuit Land Claim Agreement (#44).

Then, there is what the Harper Government allocates to Native issues, over and above the billions they usually spend. Check out this Budget 2012 page, for example. Some $707.7 million is invested in stimulus over three years for Northern communities. Another $691.8 million for First Nations Education, water infrastructure and for an urban Aboriginal strategy.

So, what is the real issue behind “Idle No More?”  Is the problem Bill C-45, the Omnibus budget Bill that the Natives claim will adversely affect the way reserve lands are leased? Or, is the protesting against that Bill simply a distraction from Bill C-27, An Act to enhance the financial accountability and transparency of First Nations.

Regarding C-45, Blake Richards, the MP for Wild Rose, says:”What it’s doing is, like the rest of our budget, it’s focusing on being able to create jobs and growth and prosperity for all Canadians and that includes our First Nations — these changes don’t alter treaty rights or any land claims processes at all. [Richards also said] It’s unfortunate they [Native leaders] didn’t take the opportunity to contact their member of parliament and let me know of their concerns.”

However, let’s take a closer look at C-27 which is, effectively, at the core of this post about responsibilities versus entitlements. At present, every Canadian government sends billions to reserves for every conceivable need.

Yet, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of Aboriginal children, youth and adults currently living in squalor and third world conditions. Why? We don’t actually know because there doesn’t seem to be any systematic accounting of what the money is spent on, as there is with municipal governments.

Why might that lack of accountability be a problem? Well, for one thing, as this taxpayer.com site shows, there are questions that need to be answered. While I don’t want to tarnish all Aboriginal leaders with the same brush, taxpayer.com reports that in the 2008-09 year:

    “50 reserve politicians were paid more than Prime Minister Harper; 160 reserve politicians were paid more than their respective premiers; over 600 received an income that is equivalent to over $100,000 off reserve; and one Atlantic Canada reserve politician was paid $978,468 tax-free (which is equal to about $1.8 million off reserve).”

So, while “Idle No More” talk about Bill C-45, the real source of Native anger – which I believe is accountability — goes under-reported.

The thing is, this distrust of the Canadian government and the aversion to change and accountability is not new. Back as far as 1969, none other than former PM and then Aboriginal Affairs Minister Jean Chretien saw what was happening to Native peoples and released a White Paper which, surprisingly proposed to:

  “Eliminate Indian status;Dissolve the Department of Indian Affairs within five years; Abolish the Indian Act; Convert reserve land to private property that can be sold by the band or its members; Transfer responsibility for Indian affairs from the federal government to the province and integrate these services into those provided to other Canadian citizens; Provide funding for economic development; and Appoint a commissioner to address outstanding land claims and gradually terminate existing treaties.”

The reaction then, unfortunately, was as predictable as now. Aboriginal leaders across Canada were shocked and appalled that the ideas in the paper were not part of the consultation process preceding it and considered it just part of the fabric of oppression created by non-aboriginals.

So here we are again. Just as in the past, some of Canada’s journalists don’t seem to see that the issue is, actually, accountability and resistance to change. For example, the Toronto Star’s Jeff Dennis and Michael Harris both write about Attawapiskat Chief Theresa Spence and her hunger strike as though she has reason to draw attention to her band’s plight.

In fact, Harris goes so far as to suggest that the Harper government is responsible for hollow talk and half lies, saying: ”If you want to know why Attawapiskat Chief Theresa Spence is on a hunger strike, it is because official apologies from on high do not feed families, build houses, install water systems or educate kids. It is because some of the poorest bands in the country have concluded that Stephen Harper has to be put on the spot.”

Well, Mr Harris, you’re right, apologies don’t do any of those things. But the millions upon millions of dollars provided by the federal government and the millions provided by the De Beers diamond mine should.

The crux of the matter is that all public tax payer money has strings attached, always has and always will. Be it Bill C-45 or C-27, government officials and Cabinets make decisions that not everyone agrees with. That is the essence of democracy. Meaning, if Aboriginals don’t like something, they should not only consult with their own Chiefs, but their MPs as well.

So, while it may not be politically correct to say it, the “Idle No More” campaign needs to be about both First Nations entitlements and their corresponding responsibilities (i.e., accountability for how they spend the money allocated to them through the entitlements).
 
Fucking arseholes sure didn't advance their cause much by blocking the highways in Truro and Cape Breton - that's according to the outrage I see on Facebook.

Last night I had someone telling me that civil disobedience is a way to get others to put pressure on their elected officials. Because we'll eventually get sick of highway holdups. As Thucydides aryicle points out, and as I mentioned to this dolt last night, that could backfire in a big way. I hope it does.

This isn't the first highway blockade in the last while. About six months ago they were pissed off about fracking a well that hadn't even been frigging drilled yet. Real bunch of geniuses there.
 
We enable them to blockade roads by our police forces standing by watching instead of arresting them.
 
Scott said:
Fucking arseholes sure didn't advance their cause much by blocking the highways in Truro and Cape Breton - that's according to the outrage I see on Facebook.

Last night I had someone telling me that civil disobedience is a way to get others to put pressure on their elected officials. Because we'll eventually get sick of highway holdups. As Thucydides aryicle points out, and as I mentioned to this dolt last night, that could backfire in a big way. I hope it does.

This isn't the first highway blockade in the last while. About six months ago they were pissed off about fracking a well that hadn't even been frigging drilled yet. Real bunch of geniuses there.

Finally New Brunswick did something right.  The Reserve near Mactaquac used to always block the Trans Canada Hwy there when they wanted attention.  The new Trans Canada now goes around the Reserve.
 
The point of a protest, like a strike, is to be seen and heard so I imagine they were running low on options.  At least, in their point of view.  It would convenient if they would start destroying private property.  I agree there should be accountability in the money the government spends on First Nations.  What I'm confused about is, if it is widely accepted knowledge that their Chiefs are corrupt, why does nobody just tell them so?  Direct payment to band members sounds like a good idea. 

If a group of people decided to stage a counter protest I do not believe the media will label them racist.  I also doubt they will be thrown under a proverbial bus.  The question is, who will carry out this kind of protest?  It is probably because most people are too busy trying to make a living.  Or maybe they're afraid they will be proven wrong.

Acting Sergeant Kenneth Deane was convicted of criminal negligence causing death.  He was not a protester but a police officer.  I do not think he was being racist; just that his actions resulted in the loss of life.  The judge, who may or may not have been biased, also accused him of dishonesty.   
 
Urmimu said:
The point of a protest, like a strike, is to be seen and heard so I imagine they were running low on options.  At least, in their point of view.  It would convenient if they would start destroying private property.  I agree there should be accountability in the money the government spends on First Nations.  What I'm confused about is, if it is widely accepted knowledge that their Chiefs are corrupt, why does nobody just tell them so?  Direct payment to band members sounds like a good idea. 

If a group of people decided to stage a counter protest I do not believe the media will label them racist.  I also doubt they will be thrown under a proverbial bus.  The question is, who will carry out this kind of protest?  It is probably because most people are too busy trying to make a living.  Or maybe they're afraid they will be proven wrong.

Acting Sergeant Kenneth Deane was convicted of criminal negligence causing death.  He was not a protester but a police officer.  I do not think he was being racist; just that his actions resulted in the loss of life.  The judge, who may or may not have been biased, also accused him of dishonesty. 

You mean like Caledonia or the area around Ipperwash\ Grand Bend?
 
Urmimu said:
If a group of people decided to stage a counter protest I do not believe the media will label them racist.  I also doubt they will be thrown under a proverbial bus.  The question is, who will carry out this kind of protest?  It is probably because most people are too busy trying to make a living.  Or maybe they're afraid they will be proven wrong.
 

Do you have any knowledge of what has been happening in Caledonia?  The locals, especially those whose property is in the disputed lands, have counter protested.  They have been thrown under the "proverbial bus" by the Ontario Government and Justices System. 
 
Urmimu said:
...... I imagine they were running low on options. 
Interesting phraseology -- one can almost picture the poor martyrs with their backs to the wall.

With the consensus here being the key issue is tribal leaders' lack of accountability in the misuse of hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of Canadian taxpayers' dollars, I'm not feeling that Joan of Arc-style "my cause is just" compassion towards them. Sorry.
 
George Wallace said:
Do you have any knowledge of what has been happening in Caledonia?  The locals, especially those whose property is in the disputed lands, have counter protested.  They have been thrown under the "proverbial bus" by the Ontario Government and Justices System.

How true. The OPP did nothing and the media portrayed the "protestors" as misunderstood oppressed aboriginal people.....while some of the "protestors" were wearing "Warrior" vests.

Where I come from, those that wear "Warrior" vests are criminals and tend to run at the first sign of trouble, unless they out gun and outnumber their opponents. They are nothing but cowards, drug dealers and thieves.
 
Urmimu said:
I agree there should be accountability in the money the government spends on First Nations.  What I'm confused about is, if it is widely accepted knowledge that their Chiefs are corrupt, why does nobody just tell them so? 

Because there is a multi billion dollar "Indian Industry" which feeds lawyers, politicians, Band cheifs and councils, media and a huge bureaucracy, and they all have a huge vested interest in keeping things the way they are. (One side effect not mentioned about the Bill C-27 is that accountability might also illuminate the subculture of "middlemen" who also get a slice of the pie).

In economics this is known as a perverse incentive.
 
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