Canada doesn’t matter to the rest of the world - and it’s our own fault

[OldSolduer]

So where does the fault lie? DND? CSIS?

Or is the process so complicated it tosses a wrench into the works?

 

[FJAG]

Just carrying on in the same vein (since T Jnr hasn't issued a Mandate Letter to Blair and we continue to work on Anand's 2021 letter which says nothing about fixing or contributing to fix procurement) - where do we stand on fixing procurement as a ministerial responsibility? That was part of Sajjan's job when the LPC came to power and then slowly slipped off the agenda.

Aw, hell. I'm just teasing. I know where it is. Its in the Minister of PW&P letter where its languished for decades. The temporary call to do this interdepartmentally has faded away.

Fixing procurement has been part of the CPC party platform for many decades. Yeah. They didn't do it either. Does anyone feel a bit of "Yes, Minister" and "Yes, Prime Minister" creeping into the conversation?

Have a go though read the Anand and Tassi letters. They're good for a chuckle followed by a stiff drink.

 

[Kirkhill]

Sounds as if the solution is, as is often the case, to be found with the USMC. Every Marine a rifleman first.

If you can train riflemen without worrying about clearances but can't put people in ships and helicopters, and I presume CPs, then bring everybody in at the rifleman level. They don't get to go to their trade until they pass their clearances. In the mean time. Gate Guard.

 

[QV]

Have you read anything, anything at all, in the last 10 pages?

I am all for assessing blame/shame. But I am telling you that not all the levers are in DND’s control.

I have.

Standard timeframe for a Level II clearance in other departments is 4 months. In DND expect it to take over 12 months. That is one example. I'm sure, if you put your thinking cap on, you could find ways to fix enrollment.

If you haven't lived outside of the CAF, you might not know any better than what you've been fed.

 

[dimsum]

I have.

Standard timeframe for a Level II clearance in other departments is 4 months. In DND expect it to take over 12 months. That is one example. I'm sure, if you put your thinking cap on, you could find ways to fix enrollment.

If you haven't lived outside of the CAF, you might not know any better than what you've been fed.

Interestingly, I found that other govt department Level II clearances aren’t directly transferable to DND. It was a bit of a shock that they had to go through hoops to get “equivalents”, even though they had a Level II in another part of the GoC.

So it’s maybe a different process for DND.

 

[QV]

Interestingly, I found that other govt department Level II clearances aren’t directly transferable to DND. It was a bit of a shock that they had to go through hoops to get “equivalents”, even though they had a Level II in another part of the GoC.

So it’s maybe a different process for DND.

Not the case. Transfers in/out occur all the time at all levels.

 

[Quirky]

As military aircraft become more advanced, that’s going to be the case. Advanced systems will require higher security clearances to work on them, as well as their support infrastructure.

It's going to be a great time when the US withholds F-35 and P-8 deliveries because we can't get our shit together, be it clearances, security or infrastructure.

 

[dimsum]

It's going to be a great time when the US withholds F-35 and P-8 deliveries because we can't get our shit together, be it clearances, security or infrastructure.

Extended OUTCAN postings to the US for those crews/techs?

 

[QV]

We may as well just be folded up into the US then and get them to do everything for us since we "can't".

 

[Quirky]

Extended OUTCAN postings to the US for those crews/techs?

Set-up permanent OUTCANs in Whidbey, Minot and Vermont.

 

[Furniture]

Sounds as if the solution is, as is often the case, to be found with the USMC. Every Marine a rifleman first.

If you can train riflemen without worrying about clearances but can't put people in ships and helicopters, and I presume CPs, then bring everybody in at the rifleman level. They don't get to go to their trade until they pass their clearances. In the mean time. Gate Guard.

That would be a great way to ensure we stay short of tech trades.

It may come as a surprise that not all people want to be "riflemen", even if they want to be CAF members.

 

[Aper]

Sounds as if the solution is, as is often the case, to be found with the USMC. Every Marine a rifleman first.

If you can train riflemen without worrying about clearances but can't put people in ships and helicopters, and I presume CPs, then bring everybody in at the rifleman level. They don't get to go to their trade until they pass their clearances. In the mean time. Gate Guard.

I believe the current BMQs and PAT platoons are exactly for this; being a soldier / rifleman first until your trade course is completed.

Yes, tech trades are important, but being a rifleman first is importanter.

 

[Kirkhill]

That would be a great way to ensure we stay short of tech trades.

It may come as a surprise that not all people want to be "riflemen", even if they want to be CAF members.

I am sure they don't. But I might have guessed that security was everybody's problem.

Might as well put them to use while they are waiting for their clearances.

 

[KevinB]

I am sure they don't. But I might have guessed that security was everybody's problem.

Might as well put them to use while they are waiting for their clearances.

Bingo.

Frankly one would think that an entity as large as the CAF is (relatively speaking due to Canada’s size and Government) cannot have its own Security Investigation branch that solely does clearances and background investigations.

DOD down here does it, and it doesn’t seem to result in ridiculous wait times.

 

[Furniture]

I am sure they don't. But I might have guessed that security was everybody's problem.

Might as well put them to use while they are waiting for their clearances.

If we were pulling in a bunch of 18-22 years olds as our primary recruit pool, maybe. In reality the CAF would be far better served by having a group of people recruited for that role though, since they will actually want to be there doing the job.

The 30 year old who joined to be a FSA is unlikely to find gate guard at 0400 on Christmas day rewarding, and is quite likely to decide to find work elsewhere. Then tell all of their friends/family about how garbage being in the CAF was...

 

[KevinB]

If we were pulling in a bunch of 18-22 years olds as our primary recruit pool, maybe. In reality the CAF would be far better served by having a group of people recruited for that role though, since they will actually want to be there doing the job.

The 30 year old who joined to be a FSA is unlikely to find gate guard at 0400 on Christmas day rewarding, and is quite likely to decide to find work elsewhere. Then tell all of their friends/family about how garbage being in the CAF was...

The point wasn’t that they would be doing that as a job, but more getting some training while waiting.

The wait shouldn’t be that long, or if they have a difficult history that leads to a longer clearance period, they should have been told that due to their file.

 

[CountDC]

I do not recall ever see a clearance granted in less than a year. My last took 2 years, they tried to reject it back for taking too long so out of date and the WO I worked with went down to see them (was in Pearkes at the time). Don't know what he said but I do know he was very upset at the time and they changed their mind. Might have helped that he was the person that had submitted and kept a watch on it.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Interestingly, I found that other govt department Level II clearances aren’t directly transferable to DND. It was a bit of a shock that they had to go through hoops to get “equivalents”, even though they had a Level II in another part of the GoC.

So it’s maybe a different process for DND.

Switch departments and suddenly your previous security clearances and Harassment/diversity courses don't count. Having a national standard across DND/PS for security clearance up to Secret and the same for various required course would reduce bureaucratic silliness/duplication.

 

[dimsum]

Set-up permanent OUTCANs in Whidbey, Minot and Vermont.

Minot? Ew.

For the P-8, it’d be Whidbey and Jacksonville as those are the USN bases in CONUS that operate them.

F-35s in Anchorage or Eielson (can’t remember where they have them in AK).

 

[Photopilot]

Careful, or I just might haul out my Lean Six Sigma Black Belt!

You beat me to it! I see your Lean Six Sigma Black Belt and raise you my Six Sigma Master Black Belt!