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CAN-USA 2025 Tariff Strife (split from various pol threads)

 Name Calling politicians deleted.

Let's see. She’s in Texas meeting trump trade officials and Texas oil mangnates, but she's pissed Ford is in Washington talking to trump trade officials.
She wasn’t invited.
She has done nothing to impress trump. All trump wants from her is to keep the WSC flowing to Texas. Wait, isn’t Smith in Texas meeting trumps people and the oil company bosses about her WSC?
Ford is responible for the welfare of 14 million people. Wanna guess what the loss of tha auto sector would cost in jobs?
Smith needs to take care of 4 million.
There's no formal policy, trade committee, or direction. The Premiers have been fighting for their individual provinces. The feds have been more concerned with carney than they have trade talks. There is no parliamentary trade committee except for carney and trudeau and all they're doing is scaring shallow thinking Canadians that invasion is imminent but Carney is the only one to back Trump down. Well Ford just put a big tear in that carney balloon.
So yeah, maybe Smith is pissed, but she shouldn't be. It's not like she's in charge to dictate to other Premiers on how trade negotiations should go. Or what is best for their province.
 
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Fair point, I just fear that little green men cross the border and become a casus belli for the Americans if they start taking casualties. An extremely small possibility, but not impossible.
Trump won’t need not-American soldiers to create a casus belli when there are MAGA premiers ready to complain they are being oppressed by Ottawa.

 Name Calling politicians deleted.
Ford has put himself leading a fight against the US when that should be federal space, and his tactic was exactly what Smith has been presenting as an Ottawa driven Boogieman. If Ontario can export tax provincial energy, then it is clearly not the abuse it was presented to be. In the end, it is not helpful if provinces allow themselves to be piecemeal negotiated with and it is not helpful if provinces make public declarations that they will trigger a unity crisis if the collective response causes them some discomfort. In Canada vs USA, Canada needs to collaborate as a monolith.
 
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In the end, it is not helpful if provinces allow themselves to be piecemeal negotiated with and it is not helpful if provinces make public declarations that they will trigger a unity crisis if the collective response causes them some discomfort. In Canada vs USA, Canada needs to collaborate as a monolith.

Don’t worry. One day in the future, Canada will have a functioning Federal government again.

It may take a while, but it ‘Should Be BackTM.’
 
I hope I'm right too. When Trump and his acolytes begin framing Canadians as "the others", contemptable as a people and "lesser" beings THEN I will fully accept that we are on the path to something really disturbing.
Right out of George Orwell, isn't it. Every despot needs an enemy or other; either domestic or external.
 
Not the least bit worried about that. That would be a straightforward if spicy CANSOFCOM / RCAF cleanup, and whatever was left would be handed over to the Mounties and crown prosecutors. Violent extremists above the individual level typically suck at keeping their mouths shut, and any more than a small gaggle together inevitably telegraph their intentions and get infiltrated or otherwise compromised. No militia acting unilaterally would stand a chance of achieving anything meaningful crossing over onto our soil.
Generally I agree with you - but I wouldn't out it past Elon to hire a lot of folks for something like that, I suspect that Erik Prince has a playbook for that.
He could probably get 20k Columbians armed and near the border fairly easily.
 
IMG_8705.jpegAn interesting comment with full timeline of events written by a Kim Aston.

Updated to reflect threats made by Trump the morning of March 11th.**

One thing I've learned over the past few weeks, and it's been a bit of a sobering lesson, is that a lot of Americans I know don't actually know what's going on between the US and Canada right now, and just how seriously Canadians are taking this. So, against my better judgement, here's a timeline to explain why we're here, and why we're angry.
Nov 30th, 2018 - The United States, Canada and Mexico finalize a trade agreement. Trump personally negotiates the terms and signs the document, celebrating it as 'the greatest trade agreement in history". (This is important.)
Nov 29th, 2024 - In a face to face meeting, Trump threatens the Canadian Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau, that he will be imposing 25% tariffs and that if Canada wants to avoid that, it should join the US as a state.
Nov 30th, 2024 - Trump publicly calls our Prime Minister 'Governor Trudeau' and instructs his staff to only address him as Governor going forward. He again suggests Canada should join the USA.
Dec 3rd, 2024 - Trump remarks that he would split Canada into two states once annexed.
Dec 10th, 2024 - Trump posts that the majority of Canadians support annexation, despite public polling that only 13% of Canadians would consider the idea.
Dec 18th, 2024 - Trump again falsely states that the majority of Canadians support annexation and that one of his lapdogs, Wayne Gretzky, should have a leadership role in that new scenario.
Jan 7th, 2025 - At a press conference, Trump says that he would use economic force to destroy the Canadian economy to annex it.
Jan 14, 2025 - Trump again claims that most Canadians want to be American, despite new polls showing only 10% of us are open to the idea.
Jan 20th, 2025 - During his inaugural address, Trump says that the U.S. will 'expand its territory' during his second term.
Jan 23rd, 2025 - At the World Economic Forum, Trump says that Canada can avoid tariffs and economic collapse if it joins the US. He says this in front of representatives from most countries in the world.
Jan 24th, 2025 - Trump states publicly that Canada 'will' become a state
Jan 31st, 2025 - Trump announces a 25% tariff on all Canadian imports to begin the next day.
Feb 2nd, 2025 - Trump refers to Canada as its 'Cherished 51st state' and that it should join the US to avoid tariffs.
Feb 3rd, 2025 - A one month delay is agreed upon. Trump, in a conversation with Trudeau states that he doesn't think existing border treaties with Canada are valid, and need to be revised.
Feb 7th, 2025 - In a closed door meeting with his cabinet, Prime Minister Trudeau is recorded, without his knowledge, telling everyone that he believes very strongly that Trump is serious and that he stated his reason for annexation as Canadian resources.
Feb 9th, 2025 - In a Super Bowl pre-game interview, Trump says that he's serious about his threats, calling it a 'viable consideration for expanding US territory'
Feb 10th, 2025 - Trump announces an additional 25% tariffs on steel and aluminum imports from Canada to come into effect March 12th.
Feb 24th, 2025 - Trump publicly remarks that whoever signed the USMCA agreement is an idiot. He was the one that signed it.
Feb 27th, 2025 - Reports of American spy planes and reconnaissance aircraft flying over southern Alberta and Saskatchewan.
March 4th, 5th, and 6th 2025 - Tariffs come into effect. Canada retaliates with it's own tariffs. Tariffs are again postponed until April 1st after a huge market backlash.
March 4th, 2025 - In an address to a joint session of congress, Trump states that the US will own Greenland 'one way or the other'.
March 5th, 2025 - US Secretary of Commerce Howard Lutnick told Canadian finance minister Dominic LeBlanc that Trump "had come to realize that the relationship between the United States and Canada was governed by a slew of agreements and treaties that were easy to abandon."
March 7th, 2025 - Unconfirmed Memorandum and maps leaked on twitter reveal Trump is allegedly planning to annex the entirety of the great lakes and Southern Ontario, home to 13,491,332 Canadians. This amounts to 35.25% of Canada's total population and includes its largest city, Toronto. This region accounts for 38% of the Canadian economy, and its loss would make Canada's independence functionally impossible.
March 8th, 2025 - Canada's foreign minister warns European allies that their government considers Canada to be under existential threat.
March 9th, 2025 - Mark Carney, the new Canadian Prime Minister, in his acceptance speech, states that Trump is seeking to destroy Canada, and its way of life.
March 11, 2025 - President Trump threatens to “permanently shut down the automobile manufacturing business in Canada” if Canada does not drop a 250% to 390% tariff on U.S. dairy products, which he doesn’t state only kicks in after a certain quantity of tariff-free U.S. dairy enters Canada, a quantity that was originally negotiated and agreed to by Trump during the USMCA in 2018.
In Trump's own words, "The only thing that makes sense is for Canada to become our cherished Fifty First State. This would make all Tariffs, and everything else, totally disappear. Canadians’ taxes will be very substantially reduced, they will be more secure, militarily and otherwise, than ever before, there would no longer be a Northern Border problem, and the greatest and most powerful nation in the World will be bigger, better and stronger than ever — And Canada will be a big part of that. The artificial line of separation drawn many years ago will finally disappear, and we will have the safest and most beautiful Nation anywhere in the World — And your brilliant anthem, “O Canada,” will continue to play, but now representing a GREAT and POWERFUL STATE within the greatest Nation that the World has ever seen!"
To my American friends, I know most of you are amazing and generous people. You didn't ask for this, and I understand that. I hold no ill will towards you, whatsoever. But I must stress, with as much seriousness as I can, the amount of damage this has done.
We have viewed you as our closest friend and ally for a century. We thought of you as brothers and sisters. We answered the call, again and again, for any support you needed from us. Most of Canadians visit the USA so much that we've seen more of the US than we have the rest of Canada.
American products have been taken off our shelves. Canadians are cancelling travel plans to the US. Photo after photo has been shared on social media of empty flights from Canada to the USA.
This isn't a joke to us. We're not overreacting. We don't think he's just saying this shit to cause chaos or negotiate a deal. We wholeheartedly believe that our closest ally and friend is about to bring violence across our border, economically destroy us, and eliminate our way of life.
The main driver for Canada's creation in 1867 was SPECIFICALLY to not be part of America, and to end America's very public threats and plans to annex our territory.
We're angry. We're really, really fucking angry. Open your eyes to what's happening because we're tired of trying to make you understand why and asking you why it seems like none of you care. **
I still hope that there is time to repair this. I still believe that this is the result of one man's plan to burn it all down. But time is running out, and fast.
 
View attachment 91846An interesting comment with full timeline of events written by a Kim Aston.

Updated to reflect threats made by Trump the morning of March 11th.**

One thing I've learned over the past few weeks, and it's been a bit of a sobering lesson, is that a lot of Americans I know don't actually know what's going on between the US and Canada right now, and just how seriously Canadians are taking this. So, against my better judgement, here's a timeline to explain why we're here, and why we're angry.
Nov 30th, 2018 - The United States, Canada and Mexico finalize a trade agreement. Trump personally negotiates the terms and signs the document, celebrating it as 'the greatest trade agreement in history". (This is important.)
Nov 29th, 2024 - In a face to face meeting, Trump threatens the Canadian Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau, that he will be imposing 25% tariffs and that if Canada wants to avoid that, it should join the US as a state.
Nov 30th, 2024 - Trump publicly calls our Prime Minister 'Governor Trudeau' and instructs his staff to only address him as Governor going forward. He again suggests Canada should join the USA.
Dec 3rd, 2024 - Trump remarks that he would split Canada into two states once annexed.
Dec 10th, 2024 - Trump posts that the majority of Canadians support annexation, despite public polling that only 13% of Canadians would consider the idea.
Dec 18th, 2024 - Trump again falsely states that the majority of Canadians support annexation and that one of his lapdogs, Wayne Gretzky, should have a leadership role in that new scenario.
Jan 7th, 2025 - At a press conference, Trump says that he would use economic force to destroy the Canadian economy to annex it.
Jan 14, 2025 - Trump again claims that most Canadians want to be American, despite new polls showing only 10% of us are open to the idea.
Jan 20th, 2025 - During his inaugural address, Trump says that the U.S. will 'expand its territory' during his second term.
Jan 23rd, 2025 - At the World Economic Forum, Trump says that Canada can avoid tariffs and economic collapse if it joins the US. He says this in front of representatives from most countries in the world.
Jan 24th, 2025 - Trump states publicly that Canada 'will' become a state
Jan 31st, 2025 - Trump announces a 25% tariff on all Canadian imports to begin the next day.
Feb 2nd, 2025 - Trump refers to Canada as its 'Cherished 51st state' and that it should join the US to avoid tariffs.
Feb 3rd, 2025 - A one month delay is agreed upon. Trump, in a conversation with Trudeau states that he doesn't think existing border treaties with Canada are valid, and need to be revised.
Feb 7th, 2025 - In a closed door meeting with his cabinet, Prime Minister Trudeau is recorded, without his knowledge, telling everyone that he believes very strongly that Trump is serious and that he stated his reason for annexation as Canadian resources.
Feb 9th, 2025 - In a Super Bowl pre-game interview, Trump says that he's serious about his threats, calling it a 'viable consideration for expanding US territory'
Feb 10th, 2025 - Trump announces an additional 25% tariffs on steel and aluminum imports from Canada to come into effect March 12th.
Feb 24th, 2025 - Trump publicly remarks that whoever signed the USMCA agreement is an idiot. He was the one that signed it.
Feb 27th, 2025 - Reports of American spy planes and reconnaissance aircraft flying over southern Alberta and Saskatchewan.
March 4th, 5th, and 6th 2025 - Tariffs come into effect. Canada retaliates with it's own tariffs. Tariffs are again postponed until April 1st after a huge market backlash.
March 4th, 2025 - In an address to a joint session of congress, Trump states that the US will own Greenland 'one way or the other'.
March 5th, 2025 - US Secretary of Commerce Howard Lutnick told Canadian finance minister Dominic LeBlanc that Trump "had come to realize that the relationship between the United States and Canada was governed by a slew of agreements and treaties that were easy to abandon."
March 7th, 2025 - Unconfirmed Memorandum and maps leaked on twitter reveal Trump is allegedly planning to annex the entirety of the great lakes and Southern Ontario, home to 13,491,332 Canadians. This amounts to 35.25% of Canada's total population and includes its largest city, Toronto. This region accounts for 38% of the Canadian economy, and its loss would make Canada's independence functionally impossible.
March 8th, 2025 - Canada's foreign minister warns European allies that their government considers Canada to be under existential threat.
March 9th, 2025 - Mark Carney, the new Canadian Prime Minister, in his acceptance speech, states that Trump is seeking to destroy Canada, and its way of life.
March 11, 2025 - President Trump threatens to “permanently shut down the automobile manufacturing business in Canada” if Canada does not drop a 250% to 390% tariff on U.S. dairy products, which he doesn’t state only kicks in after a certain quantity of tariff-free U.S. dairy enters Canada, a quantity that was originally negotiated and agreed to by Trump during the USMCA in 2018.
In Trump's own words, "The only thing that makes sense is for Canada to become our cherished Fifty First State. This would make all Tariffs, and everything else, totally disappear. Canadians’ taxes will be very substantially reduced, they will be more secure, militarily and otherwise, than ever before, there would no longer be a Northern Border problem, and the greatest and most powerful nation in the World will be bigger, better and stronger than ever — And Canada will be a big part of that. The artificial line of separation drawn many years ago will finally disappear, and we will have the safest and most beautiful Nation anywhere in the World — And your brilliant anthem, “O Canada,” will continue to play, but now representing a GREAT and POWERFUL STATE within the greatest Nation that the World has ever seen!"
To my American friends, I know most of you are amazing and generous people. You didn't ask for this, and I understand that. I hold no ill will towards you, whatsoever. But I must stress, with as much seriousness as I can, the amount of damage this has done.
We have viewed you as our closest friend and ally for a century. We thought of you as brothers and sisters. We answered the call, again and again, for any support you needed from us. Most of Canadians visit the USA so much that we've seen more of the US than we have the rest of Canada.
American products have been taken off our shelves. Canadians are cancelling travel plans to the US. Photo after photo has been shared on social media of empty flights from Canada to the USA.
This isn't a joke to us. We're not overreacting. We don't think he's just saying this shit to cause chaos or negotiate a deal. We wholeheartedly believe that our closest ally and friend is about to bring violence across our border, economically destroy us, and eliminate our way of life.
The main driver for Canada's creation in 1867 was SPECIFICALLY to not be part of America, and to end America's very public threats and plans to annex our territory.
We're angry. We're really, really fucking angry. Open your eyes to what's happening because we're tired of trying to make you understand why and asking you why it seems like none of you care. **
I still hope that there is time to repair this. I still believe that this is the result of one man's plan to burn it all down. But time is running out, and fast.
This is the same scare mongering crap carney is peddling. Canada is going to be invaded. Trump is going to annex us.

Nobody is taking over any physical Canadian territory. Quit being chicken little.
 
Hope you never have to eat those words.
If I have to, we have bigger problems than me eating crow.

How about you? Do you think Trump will send armed troops over the border to seize land like putin did? An actual armed invasion, with gunfire and ordnance? Will we have M1 tanks coming over the bridge or shelling from Detroit into Windsor? Tomahawks into Ottawa?

Genetk44, same question to you. In your own words and thoughts. Not a copy and paste from someone else.
 
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If I have to, we have bigger problems than me eating crow.

How about you? Do you think Trump will send armed troops over the border to seize land like putin did? An actual armed invasion, with gunfire and ordnance? Will we have M1 tanks coming over the bridge or shelling from Detroit into Windsor? Tomahawks into Ottawa?

Genetk44, same question to you. In your own words and thoughts. Not a copy and paste from someone else.
No I don't see that scenario occurring.

If we were to do something like put a 25% export tax on all Oil, gas, electricity, potash, uranium, aluminum, etc and held that tax in place over a number of months - I could see something potentially occurring under a presidential order of a 'clear and existential threat to the well-being of the US.'
 
No I don't see that scenario occurring.

If we were to do something like put a 25% export tax on all Oil, gas, electricity, potash, uranium, aluminum, etc and held that tax in place over a number of months - I could see something potentially occurring under a presidential order of a 'clear and existential threat to the well-being of the US.'

But I thought America doesn’t need Canadian products? Isn’t that what Trump keeps saying when he’s not having a tantrum that we hit tariffs right back at them?
 
But I thought America doesn’t need Canadian products? Isn’t that what Trump keeps saying when he’s not having a tantrum that we hit tariffs right back at them?
Imagine being inter reliant with Allies.
Sucks when you take a hard Left Turn though.
 
TBH, I think the US actually took a hard right.

They're certainly more politically polarized than ever before, whatever flavour of politics they follow, which is worrying ...


Political Polarization in the American Public​

How Increasing Ideological Uniformity and Partisan Antipathy Affect Politics, Compromise and Everyday Life​

Republicans and Democrats are more divided along ideological lines – and partisan antipathy is deeper and more extensive – than at any point in the last two decades. These trends manifest themselves in myriad ways, both in politics and in everyday life. And a new survey of 10,000 adults nationwide finds that these divisions are greatest among those who are the most engaged and active in the political process.


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