Can they do this to us???

[wern32]

:threat:
Ok hear is the situation.
Ive got 8 yrs in and  on POET in Kingston which is 9 months for us, and 4 of us live off base with families.  We have a month left and are passed the most difficult parts.
Today we did a quiz (which is not included in our final mark) and it was a little difficult resulting in 10 out of 12 getting a mark under 60%
They came in around 1330 and told us that the 10 pers had to come in everynight remaining in this week for 2hrs of group study from 1800 to 2000.

My real bitch is, can the 4 pers living off base claim travel expense and or refuse to come in because of prior family commitments???
Im looking for CFAO documentation or any proof that they cant do this to us.

Oh ya and on Wed we start class at 1630 to 2330 because of a schedule conflict until end Nov.  BEND OVER TROOPS!!!

 

[Michael OLeary]

Since you're on course, they own you. You won't find any regulation that stops the staff from changing the schedule to meet training requirements.

While the quiz may not be part of your final mark, it has obviously been used by the staff as a measure of your progress. Perhaps they have determined that if you have that much trouble as a group over the quiz now, then you may not be ready for an upcoming major test, which will be part of the final grade, and failure of that may have career implications rather than just scheduling conflicts.

 

[Gunnar]

Look at it this way....Can you afford not to support your buddies by not turning up?

 

[armyvern]

:threat:
We have a month left and are passed the most difficult parts.
Today we did a quiz (which is not included in our final mark) and it was a little difficult resulting in 10 out of 12 getting a mark under 60%
They came in around 1330 and told us that the 10 pers had to come in everynight remaining in this week for 2hrs of group study from 1800 to 2000.

My real ***** is, can the 4 pers living off base claim travel expense and or refuse to come in because of prior family commitments???
Im looking for CFAO documentation or any proof that they cant do this to us.

Oh ya and on Wed we start class at 1630 to 2330 because of a schedule conflict until end Nov.   BEND OVER TROOPS!!!

Short and sweet....perhaps you may be past the most difficult part but apparently about 10 pers have more to learn about the "difficult parts." Sad fact of the matter is....the instructor's are aware of what WILL be on your future tests and WILL count towards the final mark...and apparently 10 people don't know the answers.

So some remedial is in order. NO you can't claim any travel expenses as you are on course. I'm pretty sure that none of you has a signed authorized leave pass for any of the evenings that you will required to be in the classroom. No you are out nothing. Period. The course is (should be) the priority (and probably would be if your families were not present with you). The 4 pers who do have their families in the area should be thankful for that as it doesn't happen very often. Count your blessings. You won't find anything in the CFAOs to back you up.

PS....I gather from your demeanour that you are one of the 10? Correct? Perhaps instead of %#$#ing, some study may be in order. JMHO.

 

[wern32]

I passed with a good mark.  One of the members lives in the area and has to travel quite a distance to get to base and his wife had to reschedual her work to watch his kids.  The pers that live in the barracks are new personnel and live 30 seconds away, no big deal for them, but for 4 of us its a posting that is over a year long.

 

[aesop081]

I passed with a good mark.   One of the members lives in the area and has to travel quite a distance to get to base and his wife had to reschedual her work to watch his kids.   The pers that live in the barracks are new personnel and live 30 seconds away, no big deal for them, but for 4 of us its a posting that is over a year long.

Stop bi***ing and get the job done as instructed.  Alot of us have year long courses without the benefit of families being there.  With 8 years in the military you should know how the game is played.

 

[wern32]

Im fully aware of how the game is played, Ive spend alot of time in OPS & Trg and know how most courses are run.  The "game" has rules not just for one side.  If they wish to play they have to play by the rules as well.
Coming in to study is understandable to me but what the issue is, at 1300 they told us to come in that night for 2hrs.  If it was everyday starting tommorrow, there would be no complaint from me.
I feel your missing the point

 

[TCBF]

The rules they have to play by are outlined in the National Defence Act, and Queen's Regulations and Orders for the Canadian Forces, as well as various and sundry command, base, and school orders and instructions.  None of which, however, offer any statute or garuntee for the provision of good leadership, common sense, or adequate man-management in the day to day life of a serviceman.

You have eight years in, so it is a bit late for me to say "Welcome to Radio station Kay - AY - Double-U - Kay.

All KAWK, All day."

Tough luck.  Hope things get better for you.  This too will pass.

Tom

 

[aesop081]

I feel your missing the point

No...i know what you were getting at and i just dissmissed it.   You are on course and things like that will happen.   Thats why if you have a family it is YOUR responsability to have a plan in place in case of situations like these.   It is because of people not fullfiling that responsability that the military has resorted to making people fill out those damned family care plan forms. When you decided to remuster and go on course with your family you should have porepared yourself for that very situation.   Readiness doesn't stop once you leave the combat arms.

 

[armyvern]

at 1300 they told us to come in that night for 2hrs.   If it was everyday starting tommorrow, there would be no complaint from me.
I feel your missing the point

I think you're missing the point. This afternoon I kitted 4 guys who found out this morning that they they are leaving for Afghan Friday. They won't be home til December. And you know what? They were smiling. Get over it.
Remember the 24/7 rule? Your friend is required to have a childcare form on his file. Perhaps it would have been easier to call whomever he has listed on that instead of re-arranging the wife's schedule?   ???

 

[George Wallace]

I feel your missing the point

No.   You have missed the point.   A short coming has been found in your educations, and the Instructors are doing everything they can to remedy it.   Don't forget, they have lives too, so they also have to give up things to come in at night to give you remedial instruction.  

End result; if the extra instruction helps, all will pass the test.   More important on the weak student's minds, should be the consequences of what should happen if they don't take the remedial instruction and then as a result fail the Crse.   Will they now find themselves as HFCs and joining the ranks of the unemployed.

You are on Crse and not entitled to Travel Expense from you home/Quarters if you are called in at night for extra instruction.   Thinking of all the money the Government would then have to pay me for all the times I have been called in from home for a Bug Out/Snowball, all the times I had to come in to give extra instruction/drill/councilling to Crse members, etc. puts a smile on my face.   I could really have a great Bank Acct if only that had happened.

 

[geo]

As has been pointed out by other............
Believe it when I say that the instructors have lots of other things to do with their time than giving remedial training to candidates that are experiencing difficulties....
Between their own family life and having to prepare for all the lectures they'll have to give the next day - they need it like they need a hole in the head

BUT

They want you guys to come thru
They want you guys to do more than just "pass" - they want you guys to be good at what you do so they will bend over backwards to ensure you get the best training they can give.

Remember - once you guys go home.... the instructor is still working.

Chimo!

 

[Erborn]

As has been pointed out by other............
(Believe it when I say that the instructors have lots of other things to do with their time than giving remedial training to candidates that are experiencing difficulties....
Between their own family life and having to prepare for all the lectures they'll have to give the next day - they need it like they need a hole in the head

BUT

They want you guys to come thru
They want you guys to do more than just "pass" - they want you guys to be good at what you do so they will bend over backwards to ensure you get the best training they can give.

Remember - once you guys go home.... the instructor is still working.)


Well said

 

[beach_bum]

Coming in to study is understandable to me but what the issue is, at 1300 they told us to come in that night for 2hrs.   If it was everyday starting tommorrow, there would be no complaint from me.
I feel your missing the point

I do feel for you, as does everyone really.  No one likes getting their plans changed at the last minute.  At the same time, this is the military and at times  it happens.  No one likes it, but it's the nature of the business. 
As for being told that afternoon....you aren't the only one that has ever happened to.  When we had the forest fires out here, I was told at 1600 that I had to be back that night at 1800 to DAG troops.  I'm a single parent, but, I still had to run around and make arrangements and be back at 1800 with a smile on my face.  Nope.....didn't get anything extra out of it either, nor did I expect to.

 

[FormerHorseGuard]

i hope they never have national crisis you and your buddies are needed on 15 minute notice. 
you are lucky  to be able to live off base and have your family nearby  while on course.  some courses you live in barracks and have stand by the bed inspections everyday. have curfews added to your life style while on course.  giving up a few hours to help your course mates and maybe yourselves get better grades, career advancement, team spirit, and all around following orders  does not sound too bad tome. get off the pot, if youa re going to wear the uniform and whine that  you had to work a few extra hours on your course, go put on the other uniform ask the next person in line " DO YOU WANT  FRIES WITH THAT?" 
i think it is an lawful order and you have to follow it, not like you are going to be peeling carrots and potatoes you are doing course work.
tell him to hire the kid next door for 20 bucks for a few hours of babysitting

 

[Unknown C/S]

As you stated 10 of 12 pers did not do well on the test. You were one of the two who passed. You think that it is unfair that those ten people will have to "endure" 2 hours of remedial training.
  Now you think that this is unfair to the married pers as they will be forced to make alternate plans for child care.
  Here is a cunning plan........you look after the kids. After all, you are the consumate course mate worried about the welfare of your buds. You are free it seems and what could display coursemanship better?

  I figure you have received approx 100+ years of cumulative advice here. I strongly urge you to take it.Time to buck up pal and get on with it. Stop looking at ways to take the easy way out. Get off the internet, shine your shoes and get a haircut.

  Yes  they can do it to you. "They" are trying to have all of you pass the course. Even if it means dragging students through.

 

[Haggis]

Ive got 8 yrs in and   on POET in Kingston which is 9 months for us.....We have a month left.....

.....and you're profile says you're ex 2VP to boot.  Remember Battle School?  Can you seriously be asking this question????

Yep, you'll make RSM some day. 

 

[geo]

Yep, you'll make RSM some day.    

If it wasn't for the fact that I figure you're trying to be sacrastic.... I'd resent that statement

BTW.... there was a time,  in the old army, where instructors thought a course was no good and too soft, if there wasn't a 50% attrition rate. You should be grateful that your instrucors are a dedicated lot that are doing everything in their power to ensure everyone has a chance to pass the course.

 

[Haggis]

Yep, you'll make RSM some day.    

Geo: Maybe I will, too!  ;D

 

[wern32]

Wow alot of 60's mentallity in the responses.
The instructors are civilian and they did not think we needed remedial, it was the military personnel that said we had to come in.


They had no instructor present during this time, it was mearly a forced study time

For those who are stating the "suck it up mentality" you are wrong.  The individual could have refused to come in but no compensation will or can we given for him coming in.