Benefits Cut...

[PuckChaser]

I think it is valid, and thats why I said that there should be an option other than IR. If the CF wants to hold on to the people it values, then it needs to offer up some flexibility.

In my situation, if push comes to shove, I will pay OUT OF POCKET to go on an unacommpanied posting.

That's the right kind of attitude, shame some people don't have it.

I'm more up in arms about prohibited posting being included on this IR clawback. It is directly going to hit the pocket book of new recruits, who have no choice but to go and pay rations for a year or two while they wait for courses. Someone far up the chain needs to step in and go to bat for the troops, because Pte Bloggins at CFB Borden with 2 kids and a wife at home paying double for what his family uses for food in a month just for himself is not on.

 

[dennmu]

If you read my post your would see that i do have a wife, and two dogs, a house and a car. I had child, unfortunately we have lost her   Working on more now

 

[OldSolduer]

Thus far I have seen lots of infighting on this thread. And I am not about to share what the higher ups are doing as they didn't share it with me.

One thing they are not doing is going on line and complaining vociferously.

If you read my post your would see that i do have a wife, and two dogs, a house and a car. I had child, unfortunately we have lost her   Working on more now

I am sorry for your loss. 

That has to be the worst experience a parent can go through.

 

[4Feathers]

Wow! As a new recruit yet to even go to BMQ. I'm shocked as what I am reading. I currently live in one of the poorest provinces, I came from one of the richest provinces. The more money you make the more you spend. I have a spouse, two dogs a house and a car. I did it all on less then I will be paid in the forces. I shocked at the amount of new and current recruits that are complaining so much about budget cuts. All it takes is a smart money managing, living within your means.

We need to ask ourselves, why we joined. What do we get out of it? I know I get a free education in a job that the majority of the population will never experience. I will be payed competitively solely based upon my performance, and with that comes great benefits, and a great pension. I don't have to pay a gym to maintain good physical health. My wife and children will be looked after should something happen to me. All my tools for my trade will be payed for. I never need to look for another job, nor do I need to worry about losing one, unless by my own faults. There is numerous tax benefits provided to be, simply because I am serving my country, and that's just federal. There are numerous advantages from civilian store owners.

Now I don't know nearly as much as most of you, and I'm not claiming too. From where I am sitting it seems like I'll be getting a lot, and if that's what it take is to pay for my food and bed, to be part of such and exciting career, and have the chance to proudly stand for my country. I'd say I'm getting off easy. I didn't join for the money, i joined for the opportunity to do something worth while with my life, to have the opportunity to help others in need. To defend my rights of freedom, and above all to stand against those that oppose those rights where ever it may be. Not everthing in life will be a cake walk, sometimes you have to eat crow. When life hands you lemons, freeze them and turn them into weapons! 

I commend your idealistic views on service to country, but reign it in a bit. Most of the people that are reading your post have sacrificed a great deal for many many years; spent countless months away from families missing birthdays, anniversary's, Christmas etc. Yes we vent when we lose benefits as is the trend now with loss of severance, SE benefits, move benefits, reserve employment rules, and more to come. One thing we do all share though is our commitment to the service of our great nation, so don't be shocked at what you are reading. Keep up the positive attitude though, it will help you through the tough times. Best of luck at basic trg.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Wow! As a new recruit yet to even go to BMQ. I'm shocked as what I am reading. I currently live in one of the poorest provinces, I came from one of the richest provinces. The more money you make the more you spend. I have a spouse, two dogs a house and a car. I did it all on less then I will be paid in the forces. I shocked at the amount of new and current recruits that are complaining so much about budget cuts. All it takes is a smart money managing, living within your means.

We need to ask ourselves, why we joined. What do we get out of it? I know I get a free education in a job that the majority of the population will never experience. I will be payed competitively solely based upon my performance, and with that comes great benefits, and a great pension. I don't have to pay a gym to maintain good physical health. My wife and children will be looked after should something happen to me. All my tools for my trade will be payed for. I never need to look for another job, nor do I need to worry about losing one, unless by my own faults. There is numerous tax benefits provided to be, simply because I am serving my country, and that's just federal. There are numerous advantages from civilian store owners.

Now I don't know nearly as much as most of you, and I'm not claiming too. From where I am sitting it seems like I'll be getting a lot, and if that's what it take is to pay for my food and bed, to be part of such and exciting career, and have the chance to proudly stand for my country. I'd say I'm getting off easy. I didn't join for the money, i joined for the opportunity to do something worth while with my life, to have the opportunity to help others in need. To defend my rights of freedom, and above all to stand against those that oppose those rights where ever it may be. Not everthing in life will be a cake walk, sometimes you have to eat crow. When life hands you lemons, freeze them and turn them into weapons! 

Could I paraphrase and suggest that since *I* went through Afghanistan without a hint of PTSD- anyone who comes back and claims to have PTSD just didn't know how to deal with it? And since *I* managed to avoid it everyone else should be able to avoid it too?

 

[meni0n]

Wow! As a new recruit yet to even go to BMQ. I'm shocked as what I am reading. I currently live in one of the poorest provinces, I came from one of the richest provinces. The more money you make the more you spend. I have a spouse, two dogs a house and a car. I did it all on less then I will be paid in the forces. I shocked at the amount of new and current recruits that are complaining so much about budget cuts. All it takes is a smart money managing, living within your means.

We need to ask ourselves, why we joined. What do we get out of it? I know I get a free education in a job that the majority of the population will never experience. I will be payed competitively solely based upon my performance, and with that comes great benefits, and a great pension. I don't have to pay a gym to maintain good physical health. My wife and children will be looked after should something happen to me. All my tools for my trade will be payed for. I never need to look for another job, nor do I need to worry about losing one, unless by my own faults. There is numerous tax benefits provided to be, simply because I am serving my country, and that's just federal. There are numerous advantages from civilian store owners.

Now I don't know nearly as much as most of you, and I'm not claiming too. From where I am sitting it seems like I'll be getting a lot, and if that's what it take is to pay for my food and bed, to be part of such and exciting career, and have the chance to proudly stand for my country. I'd say I'm getting off easy. I didn't join for the money, i joined for the opportunity to do something worth while with my life, to have the opportunity to help others in need. To defend my rights of freedom, and above all to stand against those that oppose those rights where ever it may be. Not everthing in life will be a cake walk, sometimes you have to eat crow. When life hands you lemons, freeze them and turn them into weapons! 

I am very curious how do you manage to get all of that at 2751$ before taxes a month. And don't forget you will be paying 500$ on top of all the payments you will be making. Would you be able to survive with your spouse losing her employment tomorrow? Too many variables, you're also forgetting you will be paying into two pensions so your take home pay would be less than what you take in civvie street.

 

[Strike]

Would you be able to survive with your spouse losing her employment tomorrow?

You've just identified a major problem.

It was drilled in to me from when I started working that I should always have 3 months worth of pay in reserve, that would allow me to pay bills, debts, etc without having to worry over that period.  It came in very handy for me two summers ago when I took a pay cut (from pilot to GSO and also had to give up LDA) as part of my OT.  I had three months of buffer to learn to live in my new pay scale.

Obviously having 3 months of pay set aside to use only in emergencies is no longer the norm?

 

[PuckChaser]

Obviously having 3 months of pay set aside to use only in emergencies is no longer the norm?

Or no longer possible with the rising cost of pretty much everything.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Wow! As a new recruit yet to even go to BMQ. I'm shocked as what I am reading. I currently live in one of the poorest provinces, I came from one of the richest provinces. The more money you make the more you spend. I have a spouse, two dogs a house and a car. I did it all on less then I will be paid in the forces. I shocked at the amount of new and current recruits that are complaining so much about budget cuts. All it takes is a smart money managing, living within your means.

We need to ask ourselves, why we joined. What do we get out of it? I know I get a free education in a job that the majority of the population will never experience. I will be payed competitively solely based upon my performance, and with that comes great benefits, and a great pension. I don't have to pay a gym to maintain good physical health. My wife and children will be looked after should something happen to me. All my tools for my trade will be payed for. I never need to look for another job, nor do I need to worry about losing one, unless by my own faults. There is numerous tax benefits provided to be, simply because I am serving my country, and that's just federal. There are numerous advantages from civilian store owners.

Now I don't know nearly as much as most of you, and I'm not claiming too. From where I am sitting it seems like I'll be getting a lot, and if that's what it take is to pay for my food and bed, to be part of such and exciting career, and have the chance to proudly stand for my country. I'd say I'm getting off easy. I didn't join for the money, i joined for the opportunity to do something worth while with my life, to have the opportunity to help others in need. To defend my rights of freedom, and above all to stand against those that oppose those rights where ever it may be. Not everthing in life will be a cake walk, sometimes you have to eat crow. When life hands you lemons, freeze them and turn them into weapons! 

Well, lets see if you feel that if you get to BMQ, get injured, and spent an extended time on PAT, without any rations on the Queens' shilling, etc...and start paying Qc income tax amounts, and when your morale is down, and so on.

Or...after that, when/if you are still on prohibited status on proceeding to CFSATE for your AVN courses...which likely means you know that you will probably be able to move your family up for your 3s, right?  (I know many people are allowed because of the length of PAT, common corse and 3s trg)  Then you'll be posted to a Sqn and on type, so its very unlikely, aside from BMQ, that you will experience 4+ years of this, such as Army Vern and her family have.

Your lecturing some people from the OTHER end of the tunnel, and you should look around and notice you're in the group that is without the "been there, done that" T-shirt. 

 

[dennmu]

I am very curious how do you manage to get all of that at 2751$ before taxes a month. And don't forget you will be paying 500$ on top of all the payments you will be making. Would you be able to survive with your spouse losing her employment tomorrow? Too many variables, you're also forgetting you will be paying into two pensions so your take home pay would be less than what you take in civvie street.

Smart budgeting and living within your means. I have purchased my house and car over time. I am a 20 year old know it all. I'm 32 and have been working in the civi world for quite some time. and let me tell you it is no picnic either. To answer your questions. Yes I could survive if my wife lost work, it's happened many times. I don't pay into pensions, but i do pay into rrsp's both of them. Not mention, we get dinged every tax season, because civi's have nothing to able to write off.  I'm not here to make people angry, I am merely saying it can be done.

 

[Towards_the_gap]

we get dinged every tax season, because civi's have nothing to able to write off. 

Just what do you think military members write off? I don't get any tax breaks due to my profession, apart from when I deployed.

 

[dennmu]

Just what do you think military members write off? I don't get any tax breaks due to my profession, apart from when I deployed.

I never said you did.

 

[OldSolduer]

I never said you did.

Stop mincing your words. You inferred we did.


Guardhouse lawyers are not welcome.

 

[Red Devil]

With all due respect, not being entitled to the same IR benefits as others for ten years, (Starting in the "Dark Days" of the '90's.) was not pleasant.  Nor was the added three years of paying two mortgages in different locations.  Don't think that I did not inquire about it. 

Long gone are the days of the RSM's living in the Q's with their big trucks, nice car, boat and trailer, ATV and Ski-Doo.  They never planned for retirement and it bit them hard when they did and had to move out of that Q with no place to go.  The days of the young soldier having the fast car or big truck, big screen TVs, ATV and/or Ski-Doo, and perhaps a boat are still here.  Perhaps some should be looking at some of the "luxuries" that they may have and can do without.  Perhaps some people have grown too accustomed to a higher standard of living than perhaps they can afford and are now getting caught in the crunch.

Out of curiousity, how many of you take Advances on a Claim?  I know I never do.  I don't want to be bit by having to pay back monies, rather than recieve money.

Having a beat up Ford Focus, a medium sized TV, no ATV, no Skidoo or boat and having joined the CF at age 50 George I have every sympathy for your plight...BUT I'm talking about the here and now. I grew up with a house with no heating other than from the fireplace, no telephone or TV until the black and white one arrived in my teens ETC ETC but I don't expect anyone to go through that kind of thing now...there's just no need. I applaud you for sticking with the CF through many hardships but the "boo sucks I had it tougher than you" really isn't helping anyone.

 

[Red Devil]

As Strike has stated, I too hear that there are some very senior military staff fighting this and attempting to get a distinguishment between those who "choose IR" (wife's employment) and those who are "forced" (you and I) Prohibited Post (not the same as being posted IR). Fighting for options such as "benefits remain for those who are forced (you and I)", and benefits for IR occur (perhaps without meals) but only for a limited time etc (because there are legit cases where a temporary IR is warranted; for example, the woman in the CBC article who is awaiting surgery - she'd have to move to the bottom of the waiting list if she were to follow her spouse to another province now).

If they are addressing this issue and re-assessing though ---- the silence above is deafening. Another bit of bad comms strategy if this is indeed occurring and they aren't sending the word down to those of us directly affected by it. In fact, the only communique that I have seen at my level via official means on any "clarification or re-evaluating" is from DCBA confirming that we are ****ed on 01 Sept even if forced into separation.

There are also many of us already working on grieveances and we are working on it together, but will have to file as individuals ... but we are pooling our resources to pull appropriate precedents, policies for other Gov't Depts (who certainly are not seeing their higher-than-the CF's SE benefits, including their weekend travel back home allowance reduced) etc etc.

If you want to serve your country, I can only encourage you hang in, do what you can to sort yourself monetarily (visit SISIP etc as per Strike) now and hold on tight until while the good fight gets fought. Hopefully that fight will see the "forced into this on the CF's orders" side win. If not, you won't be the only one in line contemplating VRing.

As one half of a MSC who has been IR 4 times, I'm not willing to allow the CF to solve it's manning issues at my families expense and charge me for it too just because I have no choice.

I have now been PP (prohibited posted) for 4 years straight - constituting 2 prohibited postings in a row; my service spouse has also been posted twice in that 4 years. None of those 4 locations is the same. I have been to two bases, and he has been to two totally different bases (and even though our DF&E remains with him and moves with him --- even he was packed up and moved from one province to another in January). Four damn years. No choice. And, I did 2 prohibited postings before that.

For the earlier poster who made the comment about the IR guy getting to go home on weekends because it was only a 3 hour trip ... so f'n what!!?? She's saying that now he won't be able to afford the damn gas to get home on a weekend. He was not paid SE for those days he was home. You think me getting to get home on some weekends after 4 years of this forced crap is somehow wrong? I pay for those trips home out of my own damn pocket and do not get paid SE during those times. And, I'm supposed to feel like I'm doing something wrong or immoral because I get to see my hubby and kids? Wow. Vern shakes head.

Thanks Army Vern. Fingers crossed that we all make it through until normality is restored ;-)

 

[meni0n]

Smart budgeting and living within your means. I have purchased my house and car over time. I am a 20 year old know it all. I'm 32 and have been working in the civi world for quite some time. and let me tell you it is no picnic either. To answer your questions. Yes I could survive if my wife lost work, it's happened many times. I don't pay into pensions, but i do pay into rrsp's both of them. Not mention, we get dinged every tax season, because civi's have nothing to able to write off.  I'm not here to make people angry, I am merely saying it can be done.

So how does that compare to the 24-25 year old with a wife and a kid renting in a large city. Your comparisons are totally out of whack. You can stop paying into RRSPs and control your food expense. You can't control pension deductions nor the amount that you will have to dish out for rations for the first 1+ years in the beginning of your career. I wonder if you will be able to call home and say to your wife to skip a meal or two to keep the expenses down.

 

[Remius]

Having a beat up Ford Focus, a medium sized TV, no ATV, no Skidoo or boat and having joined the CF at age 50 George I have every sympathy for your plight...BUT I'm talking about the here and now. I grew up with a house with no heating other than from the fireplace, no telephone or TV until the black and white one arrived in my teens ETC ETC but I don't expect anyone to go through that kind of thing now...there's just no need. I applaud you for sticking with the CF through many hardships but the "boo sucks I had it tougher than you" really isn't helping anyone.

I don't think that's what he meant.  The problem with the here and now is that we (today's society and more so for today's young adults) is that we live way more than we can afford.  Debt is easily racked up with the play now pay later attitude.  Plus there are things we can do without.  Some people pay 150$ in cable just to get sports channels, others need the latest i-phone when they have last year's model, others get a new shiny car.  All of a sudden things get tough and and we can't cope.  I have friends that are house poor because they made bad decisions when buying. Do you really need three coffees a day?  Hoppw about cigarette smoking? 

We all have a severance coming to us.  How many are actually going to do something smart with that and how many are going to waste it?  if the public service experience is any indication, my bet is on the people wasting it because it will be accessible money, in the right now.

 

[GAP]

I stand corrected. to everyone that has read my posts. It was not my intention disrespect our generation served. Please accept my humble apology. I respect each and everyone. Very few can do what you have. I only hope I can be half of what you already are. I expect to serve my time, and I don't anticipate it will be easy, especially starting over at 32. Since I am ignorant to this topic, please feel free to message me on what it is that I can do to help.

Repectfully yours,

Dennmu

You have made your point, now stop. Read more.

 

[Red Devil]

I don't think that's what he meant.  The problem with the here and now is that we (today's society and more so for today's young adults) is that we live way more than we can afford.  Debt is easily racked up with the play now pay later attitude.  Plus there are things we can do without.  Some people pay 150$ in cable just to get sports channels, others need the latest i-phone when they have last year's model, others get a new shiny car.  All of a sudden things get tough and and we can't cope.  I have friends that are house poor because they made bad decisions when buying. Do you really need three coffees a day?  Hoppw about cigarette smoking? 

We all have a severance coming to us.  How many are actually going to do something smart with that and how many are going to waste it?  if the public service experience is any indication, my bet is on the people wasting it because it will be accessible money, in the right now.

Good luck with spending your severance - I can only speak from the point of view of a Pte one month into training and fresh out of BMQ.....if only I had a severance pay to put towards the extra costs which I was previously told I would not have to pay....but, of course, this whole thread has nothing whatsoever to do with severance pay. With hindsight I could have made better decisions in my life, and I bet you could say the same. My problem is with the fact that a few months ago I signed a 5 year contract based on certain criteria. The money wasn't really an issue so long as I could survive a few years until the promotions came along and life would get a little easier. I understood that I was making financial sacrifices and was prepared to deal with that - my wife understood that as well. All of a sudden my employer has changed the payment plan. I haven't screwed up - I'm being screwed. Please understand that I am only talking from my perspective, as that is all I know. I'm not going to comment on this subject anymore - I didn't join this discussion to fall out with anyone. I wanted to air my point of view and discuss possible solutions with like minded people who were in similar situations.  Good luck to all affected by this..I sincerely hope you all survive without having your dreams taken from you.

:2c:

 

[TCM621]

I don't think that's what he meant.  The problem with the here and now is that we (today's society and more so for today's young adults) is that we live way more than we can afford.  Debt is easily racked up with the play now pay later attitude.  Plus there are things we can do without.  Some people pay 150$ in cable just to get sports channels, others need the latest i-phone when they have last year's model, others get a new shiny car.  All of a sudden things get tough and and we can't cope.  I have friends that are house poor because they made bad decisions when buying. Do you really need three coffees a day?  Hoppw about cigarette smoking? 

We all have a severance coming to us.  How many are actually going to do something smart with that and how many are going to waste it?  if the public service experience is any indication, my bet is on the people wasting it because it will be accessible money, in the right now.

So some people are stupid. I get it. I drive a 05 cavalier (only car) and don't even pay for cable. I still don't know how my kids are eating next month. Yeah, I have memo in but my entire unit is on block leave and won't know the answer until sometime after labour day.

After 16 years in the cf, I don't expect much from the establishment. I know individual COs are going to do the best they can but I would really like an official statement to the effect that the cf, as an entity, has a clue just what they have done to a generation of members and that they are working on it.