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humint
Guest
Has anyone been watching Band of Brothers? Any thoughts on its portrayal of WWII or its historical accuracy?
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I thought it was pretty darned accurate. They even used a real German half-track rather than trying to diguise an American one by putting a black cross on it. I just wondered why they waited until the 4th episode until putting a B.A.R. into the equation. Uniforms, history, weapons, equipment, all very well done, I thought.
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humint
Guest
What‘s a BAR?
Yes, the equipment and other special effects seems well done -- although I lack a lot of knowledge in this field (i.e. equipment).
My only concern is that the whole thing is coming off as if the Americans did everything -- that they were the only one‘s who got dirty, did the fighting, and won the war. There is hardly any mention of anyone but Americans -- it is if they did it all by themselves.
Any mention of the Brits (I haven‘t heard Canada being mentioned as of yet) was merely a passing reference.
And, the only hint of anything non-US was a portrayal of British Armour as a bunch of bumbling idiots.
Yes, the equipment and other special effects seems well done -- although I lack a lot of knowledge in this field (i.e. equipment).
My only concern is that the whole thing is coming off as if the Americans did everything -- that they were the only one‘s who got dirty, did the fighting, and won the war. There is hardly any mention of anyone but Americans -- it is if they did it all by themselves.
Any mention of the Brits (I haven‘t heard Canada being mentioned as of yet) was merely a passing reference.
And, the only hint of anything non-US was a portrayal of British Armour as a bunch of bumbling idiots.
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Yes, the Americans ALWAYS assume they were the only ones who made any contribution. Few movies really mention all aspects of what happen. Just look at "The Longest Day" or "Saving Private Ryan", they mention Americans almost exclusively in D-Day, although they made less than half of the contribution. Yes, they had the most difficult beach head, but they also had the easiest one, taking virtually no casualties, and walking right into France.
However, there are movies like "The Devil‘s Brigade" and "A Bridge Too Far" which mentions other units, and shows the Yanks for what they really are.
Of course, in defence of the Yanks (hold on to your hats, this doesn‘t happen often), it is possible to be in a unit like that and have little to no contact with other countries. Unless you‘re on the outside edge of your AOR (area of responsibility) you‘ll be surrounded by other people from you country.
However, there are movies like "The Devil‘s Brigade" and "A Bridge Too Far" which mentions other units, and shows the Yanks for what they really are.
Of course, in defence of the Yanks (hold on to your hats, this doesn‘t happen often), it is possible to be in a unit like that and have little to no contact with other countries. Unless you‘re on the outside edge of your AOR (area of responsibility) you‘ll be surrounded by other people from you country.
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humint
Guest
Thank God, I thought it was just me.
I agree, about the AOR situation, but (and please clarify for me), weren‘t a lot of post beachhead ops joint forces? In band of Brothers, they made mention of linking up with Brit forces and even had Brit armour support for an attack (I think on Arnhem -- sp??).
But I think the real problem lies in the fact that this movie is made for a US audience. And, that‘s the biggest problem with the US tv/movie industry -- they don‘t think of the globalness of any situation or the possible markets it (a show/movie) can go into. Then again, this complaint is nothing new.
It would be nice to hear of the contribution made by other countries in the show. And I am hoping that they will, but I‘m not holding my breath.
I agree, about the AOR situation, but (and please clarify for me), weren‘t a lot of post beachhead ops joint forces? In band of Brothers, they made mention of linking up with Brit forces and even had Brit armour support for an attack (I think on Arnhem -- sp??).
But I think the real problem lies in the fact that this movie is made for a US audience. And, that‘s the biggest problem with the US tv/movie industry -- they don‘t think of the globalness of any situation or the possible markets it (a show/movie) can go into. Then again, this complaint is nothing new.
It would be nice to hear of the contribution made by other countries in the show. And I am hoping that they will, but I‘m not holding my breath.
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For OP Market Garden, it was a joint operation, but in the same sense that D-Day was. You had a series of bridges leading from Holland into Germany, the ones between Grave and Eindhoven to be occupied by the 101st airborne, Grave and Nijmegen by the 82nd airborne, and Arnhem bridge by the 1st British airborne. They were to drop in, occupy the town, and make sure the bridge was clear. The British Armour was then to drive all the way from Son to Arnhem and the entire British 2nd Army could advance into Germany.
A million things went wrong and the operation failed (watch the movie if you want to see what went wrong... too many to list here). The 1st airborne lost 8,000 men that day and had to retreat. Anyway, since the 101st had the first couple bridges, and pretty much the least resistance, the only Brits they would have encountered would have been the armour driving through. Same as for D-day; if you were at Utah beach, you‘re 2 beaches and thousands upon thousands of men away from the closest Brit, and even further from the closest Canuck.
A million things went wrong and the operation failed (watch the movie if you want to see what went wrong... too many to list here). The 1st airborne lost 8,000 men that day and had to retreat. Anyway, since the 101st had the first couple bridges, and pretty much the least resistance, the only Brits they would have encountered would have been the armour driving through. Same as for D-day; if you were at Utah beach, you‘re 2 beaches and thousands upon thousands of men away from the closest Brit, and even further from the closest Canuck.
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humint
Guest
Interesting. And thanks for the info.
My complaint remains that the Brit Armour were typecasted as bumbling idiots.
And there was also a not-so-subtle jibe at the British OP commanders -- basically, the US soldiers expressed that they had no faith in the Brits and that a US commander would be better, etc.
My complaint remains that the Brit Armour were typecasted as bumbling idiots.
And there was also a not-so-subtle jibe at the British OP commanders -- basically, the US soldiers expressed that they had no faith in the Brits and that a US commander would be better, etc.
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I remember that, but you can be sure that the Brits would have done the same thing if it were an American commander. You‘re always more willing to follow one of your own right?
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azzkikr
Guest
Here‘s a good read. Kinda long though.
http://www.101airborneww2.com/bandofbrothers.html
http://www.101airborneww2.com/bandofbrothers.html
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humint
Guest
I‘d follow anyone provided they aren‘t a Yank! But, I know what you mean and fully agree.
But, I know what you mean and fully agree.
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Yes it was good. The uniforms were 80-90 % the Helmets had 50s style liners, the webbing was small. I read they bought alot of our old liners, from our para helmets liners. The webbing was good but itseemed everyone had a 45 on him. Yes Sgts and up and only E6s(thats three with a rocker). Not all jumped from the Dak. Some glided in the Waco Glider.You can buy the DVD . Its complete from pt 1-9 and a special at the end. I‘ve taped it but am going to order it from a web site I‘ll find and post.I collect Cdn and Brit kit and am a member of the 1st Cdn Para and FSSF asso. , also I reenact if I get the time. Bin down to PA. and Mass. for the 82/101 eenactments. Damn some nice kit there. The Amercians are big into Cdn and Brit stuff now that is why Ours and Brit kit doubled even more. You could get a Cdn/Brit Dispatch rider that was close to a Para for 20$ Cdn now its 185$ US. They go for the 1st Cdn Para,FSSF, Camrons, BW, any unit that you know of is down there.
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sgt.shmedly102
Guest
It‘s a show about a single company in the 101st ABN. We‘re talking small picture here. How often do you think one single company came in contact with troops from other countries? BoB is a very close adaptation of Stephen Ambrose‘s book by the same name. The book is almost entirly oral history from the guys who were there. Pretty much how you saw it was how it happened. All of E/506th PIR did jump in from C-47‘s. The 327th and 401st GIR‘s were the glider infantry for the 101st ABN division. As for pistols, airborne soldiers were issued a larger number of pistols than other formations as it was believed paratroopers would have more need for a side arm. This was particulary true as the rifleman back then had to jump with his M1 rifle disassembled so it would fit on his rig. So he would need a weapon he could place into service immediately. And the helmets are not 1950‘s liners, those were the liners paratroopers were issued in WWII; they had different chinstaps and a different suspension than the leg‘s helmets.
As for the Brits on OP Market Garden; that was a common complaint among the American soldiers that they lacked aggressivness in general (could just be that the Yanks were all paratroopers) and that they actually stopped to brew tea within sight of Arhnem. All I can say is that‘s what I‘ve seen and read from various sources. And to this day, Montgomery has very few friends in the States, not because he was British, but because he was a dumbass who got men killed.
Oh yeah, one more thing. The Americans might not have been to majority of troops on D-Day, but they did suffer most of the casulties. Utah might have been a breeze, but Omaha was by far the worst. Read a good book about it (D-Day also by Stephen Ambrose comes to mind) or, if your lazy, just watch the first 25 mins. of PVT Ryan. That was Omaha.
As for the Brits on OP Market Garden; that was a common complaint among the American soldiers that they lacked aggressivness in general (could just be that the Yanks were all paratroopers) and that they actually stopped to brew tea within sight of Arhnem. All I can say is that‘s what I‘ve seen and read from various sources. And to this day, Montgomery has very few friends in the States, not because he was British, but because he was a dumbass who got men killed.
Oh yeah, one more thing. The Americans might not have been to majority of troops on D-Day, but they did suffer most of the casulties. Utah might have been a breeze, but Omaha was by far the worst. Read a good book about it (D-Day also by Stephen Ambrose comes to mind) or, if your lazy, just watch the first 25 mins. of PVT Ryan. That was Omaha.
Michael Dorosh
Army.ca Veteran
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Band of Brothers (an internet girlfriend in Florida taped me the entire series so I didn‘t have to wait for Global Canada to air it) is bar none the best dramatic portrayal of small unit experiences in the Second World War, ever.
Aside from the uniforms, etc., which were perfect as near as I can tell, the writing was magnificent, and the characters developed nicely - the mini series format allowed for that much more than a movie (or a TV series such as Tour of Duty, for that matter, which had to abandon its vision in the third(?) season to try an attract "female viewers").
I don‘t understand the comment about "our forefathers kicked *** " - it strikes me as rather asinine, really. Nor do I understand the constant whining and moaning by Brits and fellow Canadians that the Americans are so good at portraying their fighting men in a positive light. American fighting men have served with us in both world wars and again in Korea, and the GI has every right to be proud of their sacrifices as we do.
If Canadians and Brits are tired of watching "Hollywood war movies" maybe they should shut their mouths, get out their cheque books, and start making their own? The Dieppe mini-series a few years back was a welcome start. But complaining that the Americans excell at telling their own stories is a little silly.
Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers both increased the profile of Canadian WW II veterans, and renewed interest among young people in what our boys did "over there" - that is a good thing!
Aside from the uniforms, etc., which were perfect as near as I can tell, the writing was magnificent, and the characters developed nicely - the mini series format allowed for that much more than a movie (or a TV series such as Tour of Duty, for that matter, which had to abandon its vision in the third(?) season to try an attract "female viewers").
I don‘t understand the comment about "our forefathers kicked *** " - it strikes me as rather asinine, really. Nor do I understand the constant whining and moaning by Brits and fellow Canadians that the Americans are so good at portraying their fighting men in a positive light. American fighting men have served with us in both world wars and again in Korea, and the GI has every right to be proud of their sacrifices as we do.
If Canadians and Brits are tired of watching "Hollywood war movies" maybe they should shut their mouths, get out their cheque books, and start making their own? The Dieppe mini-series a few years back was a welcome start. But complaining that the Americans excell at telling their own stories is a little silly.
Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers both increased the profile of Canadian WW II veterans, and renewed interest among young people in what our boys did "over there" - that is a good thing!
Michael Dorosh
Army.ca Veteran
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Oh, incidentally, the next episode of BoB will have Canadian engineers portrayed in it - though none of them have speaking roles.
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Sgt 102
I know they had different helmet liners, I‘m a Jumper and we bought the 50s liners from the US in the early 60s and we used the things until 85 when we changed the buckle, the webbing was thiner on the early M1 helmet than the M1C or the M2. The 101 had the M1Cs when they jumped into Normandy . And yes the 506 did only jump but their support troops were glider borne. I received some of the imfo from the 101 Asso. As for the pistols I send a friend down south that reenacts and is ex 101. He even said mostly e6+ NCOs and not E5 had the pistols.
I know they had different helmet liners, I‘m a Jumper and we bought the 50s liners from the US in the early 60s and we used the things until 85 when we changed the buckle, the webbing was thiner on the early M1 helmet than the M1C or the M2. The 101 had the M1Cs when they jumped into Normandy . And yes the 506 did only jump but their support troops were glider borne. I received some of the imfo from the 101 Asso. As for the pistols I send a friend down south that reenacts and is ex 101. He even said mostly e6+ NCOs and not E5 had the pistols.
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toms3
Guest
I have to agree with Michael Dorosh. Stop the crying. If it was a Canadian story portraid by Americans....sure complain.....but its not...its an American movie, made for HBO (or another cable US channel)...primaily Amercian viewed. So...who cares.
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Somewhat off topic, but the Brits aren‘t any better for including Canadians in their movies. For that matter in their history books we don‘t rate very high either. Like in the Battle of Britian...its always Great britian stands alone against Germany with its colonies.
What canada needs to do is make its history known to to canandians and the world. I studied Canadian Histroy at University and its not boring; its only boring because your grade 9 history teacher sucked.
Band of Brother is great series, finially producers are making the Germans an actual force who really do hit their tagets.
What canada needs to do is make its history known to to canandians and the world. I studied Canadian Histroy at University and its not boring; its only boring because your grade 9 history teacher sucked.
Band of Brother is great series, finially producers are making the Germans an actual force who really do hit their tagets.
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humint
Guest
Well, my concern still lies in the fact that the BOB series seems so rah-rah Ameri-cah, if you know what I mean??!!
Are we Canadians that only ones who can make a movie/tv series that critically examines the issues and can remain objective, even to the extend that we can point fingers at ourselves or our leaders?
It‘s not that Canadians can‘t or don‘t produce pro-Canadian movies, etc. -- we can and have. But I don‘t want patriotic clap-trap. Objectivity and accuracy is the name of the game, especially in this day and age.
All that said, I have to point out that BOB is not nearly as blindly patriotic and self-serving as other American movies. But, there are a few episodes left, and we will just have to see how overt and explict the American patriotism gets.
Are we Canadians that only ones who can make a movie/tv series that critically examines the issues and can remain objective, even to the extend that we can point fingers at ourselves or our leaders?
It‘s not that Canadians can‘t or don‘t produce pro-Canadian movies, etc. -- we can and have. But I don‘t want patriotic clap-trap. Objectivity and accuracy is the name of the game, especially in this day and age.
All that said, I have to point out that BOB is not nearly as blindly patriotic and self-serving as other American movies. But, there are a few episodes left, and we will just have to see how overt and explict the American patriotism gets.
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sgt.shmedly102
Guest
Recce, you may be right about the pistols, all I heard, was that anyone who wanted one and could get their hands on one, carried one; paratroopers don‘t always pay too much attention to the MTOE. (On a related note, in PVT Ryan, CPT Miller (Tom Hanks) is carrying a Thompson while Sarge is carrying an M1 carbine; usually NCO‘s carried Thompsons and officers carried carbines. But so what?) As for the helmet liners, they looked good to me, but you may be right. In any case it‘s kind of nitpicky. Like the people who say they saw black jump boots in PVT Ryan (I never did) or that the soles were wrong. Frankly, if the soles of boots are the biggest gaff in a movie, I‘d say they did a good job.
As for the portrayl of Canadians in movies, I say: go ahead make your own. I would love to see some good Canadian war movies. And I don‘t see why you can‘t. Everytime I watch something on the SciFi channel, it‘s made in Canada. (I never knew so many other planets looked like Vancouver.) Oh, but don‘t let those guys make your war movies. In almost every show/movie they have the military declare martial law. Wouldn‘t be so bad except it‘s always the US military, and that can‘t happen. Point being, whoever‘s making movies up there has a screwy view of the military. But hey, I liked Due South.
BTW, where could I find this Dieppe movie?
As for the portrayl of Canadians in movies, I say: go ahead make your own. I would love to see some good Canadian war movies. And I don‘t see why you can‘t. Everytime I watch something on the SciFi channel, it‘s made in Canada. (I never knew so many other planets looked like Vancouver.) Oh, but don‘t let those guys make your war movies. In almost every show/movie they have the military declare martial law. Wouldn‘t be so bad except it‘s always the US military, and that can‘t happen. Point being, whoever‘s making movies up there has a screwy view of the military. But hey, I liked Due South.
BTW, where could I find this Dieppe movie?
