assault tp pres

[Ghillie]

Our recce sqn is in the process of adding an assault tp to its mud recce component. This is due partly to the restrictive numbers of LUVW c&r callsigns but more importantly because of the increase in flexibility and augmentation capabilities. I‘d like to know who is the keeper of assault tp doctrine as this is currently a reg force course and unavail to pres. What types of additional eqpt should we be looking at obtaining to sup this tasking?

 

[Bzzliteyr]

I am assuming that this is something that can be found through the Armour School. They have all that stuff at the resource library.. I hope. Good luck.

Bzz

 

[Gunner]

Or have your Ops O contact Ops O LdSH(RC) and ask for assistance. We are all supposed to be in the army of the west.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Assault Troop / Assault Trooper are trade components within and belonging to the Armoured Recce Sqn. Gunner is right. Get onto the LdSH for assistance in your area. The assault trooper is probably one of the most highly trained and capable soldiers on the field. His job entails aspects of all the combat units. Infantry, engineer, arty and of course, armoured. It is an intensive course, and not likely you‘ll get trained to the reg force level. But who can tell? Won‘t know unless you ask, the most they can do is say no. Recce 41 can probably expand.

 

[Cdn Soldier]

Although I‘m 99.99% sure I already know the answer, please tell me that either:

1) this is a mandated expansion of your capabilities. If this is the case, the training and kit should be pushed to you, you shouldn‘t have to go looking for it. or

2) you are researching a service paper in order to obtain approval from higher to expand your mandated training to include this capablity.

If not, I would seriously reconsider what you are doing lest you be on the recieving end of a rather interesting BOI.

My oh so humble opinion, of course.

 

[Ghillie]

Assault Tp capability is now under review for res units. We seldom get kit pushed to us. Usually we go forward to justify its issue to us. Same with increase in capability.

I would like someone to outline special equipment requirements and perhaps some discussion on what parts if not the whole CTS a res unit could do without additional resources.

How many armoured recce res pers if any have assault course and how was it obtained.

Cheers

 

[Recce41]

The Role of Assault Troop is or was the Eng/ Inf support for the Recce Sqn side of the Armour Corp. As a Recce Smee, It was one of the troops in the Sqn people fought to get to - the Jump Troop. I spend alot of time in my 22 yrs in both.
The new role is under review, as a Anti Recce role. In the passed only a few GO/OCs know how to employ them. They get Eng/Inf/Armour courses roled into one. The weapons are from the c7-Mortor-Eryx-Demo. You as a Maj know that the Corp is changing. There are only about 10 Reserves that have it, this is from tours with the RCD. They only received this due they were placed in the troop at the time we were running one. It is a high cost course. Due to time and resourses. It is about 8-10 weeks. For Res it would not be feasable, due to it takes 48-54 pers for a troop. This does not count support for the troop.

 

[Ghillie]

Recce 41 and others...,

Do you still have access to mortars and eryx and if so how many per troop? Also what additional eng equip is integral besides explosives. Keeping in mind we are a reserve unit, would several LSVWs meet the lift requirement and what modifications have you made in the veh you use to carry extra kit?

In a unit of 100+ soldiers, there is room for a 7 car recce tp, SHQ, A Echelon and Adm Tp as well as an Assault tp composed of keen senior crewman.

If the Assault course cts could be broken down into four or five 2 week trg blocks what subjects would be a best fit together?

Cheers

 

[Recce41]

Ghillie
Assault Tp in a Res unit is a waste. You don‘t have the resourses or trained personal to maintain one. We do have 60mm Mortor x 2 Eryxs x 5. The Assault troop course couldn‘t be cut into parts. Due to the classes. For the Demo, you require a Adv Demo NCO which course is 2 months, Eyrx inst course 2 weeks , mortor course is a week, Adv Mine inst 2 months. Most of these courses are required. You cannot fire a Eryx without one, goto the Demo Range without one. Adv Demo/EOD, Eryx inst, Adv Mortors. I was one of only 4 Armour Crewmen in the Corp to get the Demo/EOD course due to cost and 6-8 with the Eryx inst, you have to fire fire rounds just to get on the course. The RCD don‘t even have a Eryx Inst.now due to postings and cost. The cost for these courses is high. When we went to Somalia ,was when we received the Demo /EOD course since then one one has received it.
You require a whole Adm troop to support it. 2x HLVW for Defencive stores, 2+ for Demo stores, we don‘t even have room in a Bison for all the stores. That is so must stores we have to put kit on the outside.

 

[Ghillie]

Recce 41...,

Great information. It ‘s my belief that res units will form assault tps. It used to be the assault tp was a place where we put recruits and a great M/Cpl to provide en for the recce tps. This has long since been replaced by a concept of putting our most senior and capable people into the assault tp in conjuction with our one recce tasked tp.

I have yet to see an eryx except in pams and have only called down fire from the inf for the 60 and 81 mm mortar. But we do have two demo instr in the unit. As well we add in rappel trg from our rappel master. We have also upgraded the assault tps first aid trg to include CPR level "C" and standard first aid vis emeregency first aid. I hope to introduce the assault troopers to suturing and IV use in the belief they may need this being so far ahead of our medics. I am also wondering if your assaulters have conducted some form of unarmed combat? and if so is there an army standard that your unit uses.

I would be interested in what other reserve units are doing in this field.

Cheers

 

[John Nayduk]

The Director of Armour was visiting the unit in December and he was telling us that every regular force RECCE squadron assault troop will have 2 sections of reserve assault troop guys in it. Likewise, each Coyote troop will have a reserve patrol. Each regular force RECCE squadron will have 31 reservists in its ORBAT for peace support operations. Hopefully, it will be the same reservists all the time and will get a chance to train with the regular force guys at different times throughout the year. That would give everyone a chance to get familiar with each other. Of course, all that is subject to approval by Ottawa.

 

[Recce41]

Reserve sections? We received a briefing in Ottawa. It was stated that Res may do the stealth Recce Role. I don‘t really give a **** what they do, I‘m getting out soon anyway. This Army is gone to ****. I‘m off to Gagetown. So **** them, got ****ed for the PF course and 6B this yr. yes I‘m bitter. I‘m taking my pension and may go work for the Customs or Security Canada. This is the view of many of us old guys, get out will the goings good.

 

[Ghillie]

41 this is 4 SITREP

En: Apathy is engaging all c/s 4 including Cdn public

FR: 41 take lead from 42 on HEART.
Reqr your leadership, elan and war fighting expertise.
Mission success pivotal on your participation

FREE AND FEARLESS

41 Ack over

 

[John Nayduk]

Well Dave, I don’t think the senior leadership had much choice. Every unit is understaffed and under funded, the practice of taking guys from other units to top up for operations and then have those guys rotate with their own unit next time burns guys out. They turn in their kit and the problem gets worse. Money is a huge problem where the military is trying to pay for operations instead in increasing manpower. The government seems to be working against the Forces and the public picks up on this. Young people don’t even look at the regular force these days for a career. The government see the reserves as a cheap labour pool where they only pay us 37.5 days a year. I’m sure that if the troop levels were up like when we first got in, you wouldn’t see a reservist on any tour, like when we first got in. Our tour in Bosnia in 94-95 had a lot of reservists but they were all corporals/troopers no matter the rank they held in their units. Cheap manpower pool with regular force leadership. I guess things have changed a bit as far as rank when employed in the CRICs. Under the new plan, at least the reserve guys will, I hope, work with the same troop on exercise and it will bring up the level of expertise within the reserve section or patrol. The standard for the reserves improves and the regular force guys get a break from constant tours. If we could get things like the States where the reserve guys take the same course as the regular force guys would bring up the level of expertise. The big problem is with job protection. Most employers will not let a reservist go on a 3-month 6B course so we get 4-week 6Bs. If a reserve guy wants to learn more and take a course, most guys can’t risk loosing their jobs that pay the bills. A real catch 22 situations. Even getting the number of reserves up is nearly impossible when there are brigades running out of money.
John

 

[RD]

Is an Assualt trooper the same thing as a Support Trooper? If not whats the difference?

 

[Recce41]

Same job different Name. The Name change was when they changed the course package.

 

[Reccesoldier]

Ghillie, much of what is done in Assault troop requires special kit and training as some have already pointed out. Having said that though Assault Troop is designed as the Ground Element of a Recce Sqn. If you were to model your Assault Tp on the Infantry Platoon and specialize in Anti Armour ambushes, LRRP, Lay Back Ptls, NBC Recce, Vital Point Guard and Platoon size Quick Attacks you would be able to offer a great deal to your OC and the "Specialized Kit" required is minimal.

Yes Assault Tp does all those other things that people have spoken of but the vast majority of their work is in the Ptl/AAAmbush area.

Were you to train the Troop in this way, and make it viable as a troop to the Sqn then down the road perhaps you would be able to get some of the extras.

So you have a choice, you can either say "I want it all" and get nothing. Or you can say "This is what we can offer" and get your foot in the door.

My advice? It‘s better to beg forgiveness than to ask permission, build it and they will come.

44C, out.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Specifically, what should be done (if it hasn‘t already) is to analyze the skills of the assault trooper and partition them into "essential", "supplemental", and "residual" as the training system requires.

If "essential" is achievable and sustainable by reservists and deemed useful on its own, and "supplemental" adds on enough for the trooper to be deployable, the case can probably be made for the reserve capability.

 

[Zoomie]

Quite frankly with the state of the CF wide fleet of vehicles and the tardiness in the LUVW replacement, I imagine that for Armoured Recce units this is the direction that should be taken. I am sure that Major Ghillie is looking for ideas and vital training that can be done with his unit when they hit the field. If his unit is anything like my old one, I‘m sure vehicle serviceability is an issue with their 18 year old Iltis‘. In order to field a Recce unit, and not re-role them into Engineers or Infantry, why not practise some dismounted "assault-troop" like skills. Sure beats practising section-attacks all weekend!!
:tank:

 

[Reccesoldier]

Brad, ALL the Assault Tpr skills are essential. Some are relatively easy to do without a lot of kit. What I‘ve proposed here is not a real Assault Tp but something that might grow to be one if cards are played well.

Patroling and small scale ambushes do not make an assault Tpr. That lies within the Build/Destroy minor obstacles, Demolitions, Anti-armour Ambushes and Mine warefare part of the rig.

Any soldier can learn the grunt stuff, it‘s cheap and easy. the rest is expensive, manpower and kit intensive.

Could the reserves do it? Shure why not. But as with anything else "they" have to see it‘s value before they are hooked.

44C