Army Reserve Restructuring

[PrairieFella]

Until you're rubbing elbows at the bar with someone you sent to jail, or fined, or are otherwise dealing with for disciplinary/ performance issues of course

Opportunity for reconciliation haha.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Opportunity for reconciliation haha.

Yes, 'reconciliation'...

 

[dapaterson]

Properly configured, a small bar at the back of a room does not mean the space can't be used for meetings or instructional purposes.

I am member of a charity which has, in the back of its main open workspace, a small bar that's open about an hour a week, after volunteer hours on Friday nights. The rest of the time the space is used for its charitable purpose.

 

[PrairieFella]

Properly configured, a small bar at the back of a room does not mean the space can't be used for meetings or instructional purposes.

I am member of a charity which has, in the back of its main open workspace, a small bar that's open about an hour a week, after volunteer hours on Friday nights. The rest of the time the space is used for its charitable purpose.

In our armoury the messes are often used as classes. Lots of PD, lectures, seminars, etc.

 

[Kirkhill]

At 24:00 they start discussing integration of reservists into the eFP.

There was some discussion about why troops would opt for Class B service over Regular service.

Cpl Bloggins? When are you available to defend the interests of your country? Next July? After your wedding anniversary? With your wife's permission? Good stuff. I need a LAV driver. Oh. Not qualified? Not to worry. I can get you loaded on the next course that suits your timetable. Thank you for your service. See you in Latvia next year. Cheers.

There. That wasn't so hard, was it?

 

[FJAG]

A massive amount of Moss Park is wasted on all the different messes it has. The upper level is almost all messes and the main level has a mess specifically for a unit band. There is lots of room that could be reallocated as it absolutely has unused time. You have a lot of rooms that are used for the most part one or two nights a week for a few hours during the Sep - Jun period of training. There should be at most 3 messes - Officers, SNCMs and JRs. Each unit does not need their own. So many push that they need a mess for their historical items. Give each unit a display case in the mess and the rest of their items they can keep in their offices or along the walls of their lines. Then they could use the newly freed up rooms for classrooms which are in short supply there. I suspect this is not just an issue for Moss Park and there are others that have the same issue.

I agree. I was there when Moss Park opened and it had 1 wet and 1 dry canteen for us junior ranks and a total of 8 messes for the officers and Snr NCOs upstairs. Meanwhile downstairs were 4 office suites, one each for each battalion/regiment and two lecture rooms.

Moss Park is actually an example of poor planning in that it has limited space available for the parking of both military and civilian vehicles. It might have been adequate in my day in the 1960s when everyone took the TTC to get there but these days ... There is very little expansion capability other than to build a wall along the west and north side to allow more parking space, and to negotiate additional land to the east which I presume is a non starter due to the recreational facilities there. It would have been easier in my day when all that land was empty except for the residents of the neighbouring mission wandering around.

More than that, however, is that a battalion, even one with 1 full-time and three part-time subunits (or for that matter even separate sub-unit in its own armouries, needs a fair bit of footprint for stores, vehicles, maintenance, etc. Even if some of the vehicle storage and maintenance can be shuffled off site. Most of these armouries were designed for very light scales and are hard to reconfigure or expand and there are some things that you need to function efficiently. For example clothing stores. A properly functioning 30/70 battalion, IMHO, should be able to do everything from recruit processing to basic kitting in house. I think getting people from "Hi, I'm interested in joining" to having their butt in a lecture room chair wearing the right gear and learning how to use their rifle should happen in weeks, if not days, regardless of whether they are joining the RegF or ARes component of the battalion.

I personally prefer the idea of buying up a derelict shopping centres in urban areas for their usable acreage.

 

[PrairieFella]

I agree. I was there when Moss Park opened and it had 1 wet and 1 dry canteen for us junior ranks and a total of 8 messes for the officers and Snr NCOs upstairs. Meanwhile downstairs were 4 office suites, one each for each battalion/regiment and two lecture rooms.

Moss Park is actually an example of poor planning in that it has limited space available for the parking of both military and civilian vehicles. It might have been adequate in my day in the 1960s when everyone took the TTC to get there but these days ... There is very little expansion capability other than to build a wall along the west and north side to allow more parking space, and to negotiate additional land to the east which I presume is a non starter due to the recreational facilities there. It would have been easier in my day when all that land was empty except for the residents of the neighbouring mission wandering around.

More than that, however, is that a battalion, even one with 1 full-time and three part-time subunits (or for that matter even separate sub-unit in its own armouries, needs a fair bit of footprint for stores, vehicles, maintenance, etc. Even if some of the vehicle storage and maintenance can be shuffled off site. Most of these armouries were designed for very light scales and are hard to reconfigure or expand and there are some things that you need to function efficiently. For example clothing stores. A properly functioning 30/70 battalion, IMHO, should be able to do everything from recruit processing to basic kitting in house. I think getting people from "Hi, I'm interested in joining" to having their butt in a lecture room chair wearing the right gear and learning how to use their rifle should happen in weeks, if not days, regardless of whether they are joining the RegF or ARes component of the battalion.

I personally prefer the idea of buying up a derelict shopping centres in urban areas for their usable acreage.

10 messes is fucking insane. All the Winnipeg armouries have 2-3, one JRs in each building, one Snr ranks mess at Minto and one of each SNCOs and Officers mess at Strachan. 5 between the two.

Is it still like that at Moss Park?

 

[Edward Campbell]

Opportunity for reconciliation haha.

That actually happened to me: I was retired and it was about 20 years after I had commanded my Regiment; I was attending an event at the home station when a fellow, a WO or MWO as I recall, who I didn't recognize (different cap badge, one of your supporting trades) approached me with his wife and said something like: "This is the guy who turned me around. I thought I was going to be tossed out but he gave the the longest CB allowed (it was 28 days, I suspect) and I jumped at the chance to stay in and reform myself." I still didn't really recognize the fellow but he reminded me of the event and I remembered that - there were a bunch of 'em and I sent a few to Edmonton but I decided that a few others were quite clearly "redeemable" and I handed them the longest CB allowed and told the RSM to make sure they worked their arses off. Anyway it seemed that he did reform himself and succeeded in both life (lovely wife and kids) and the military.

In the old, old days, when I was a junior officer ,one unit in which I served often saw good NCOs reduced to Pte for some mistake, sent to the Service Detention Barracks, and on return to the unit promoted appointed, fairly quickly to LCpl (which COs could do one their own authority) and assigned to the Regimental Police.

 

[markppcli]

There was some discussion about why troops would opt for Class B service over Regular service.

Cpl Bloggins? When are you available to defend the interests of your country? Next July? After your wedding anniversary? With your wife's permission? Good stuff. I need a LAV driver. Oh. Not qualified? Not to worry. I can get you loaded on the next course that suits your timetable. Thank you for your service. See you in Latvia next year. Cheers.

There. That wasn't so hard, was it?

Simple as, now just work out 400 cases of that then wonder why you hear sobs from the Ops and Trg offices.

In our armoury the messes are often used as classes. Lots of PD, lectures, seminars, etc.

Yeah it’s just sub optimal. Can work for a small seminar, but if we’re trying to train 150 soldiers ? We need multiple class rooms that can accommodate 30-50 soldiers at a time. I can’t think of a better set up than Edmonton’s lecture training facility, with a vehicle hanger beside it.

 

[PrairieFella]

Simple as, now just work out 400 cases of that then wonder why you hear sobs from the Ops and Trg offices.



Yeah it’s just sub optimal. Can work for a small seminar, but if we’re trying to train 150 soldiers ? We need multiple class rooms that can accommodate 30-50 soldiers at a time. I can’t think of a better set up than Edmonton’s lecture training facility, with a vehicle hanger beside it.

Kind of a non-starter. You know the Feds are building anything that big for the reserves anytime soon. Coulda woulda shoulda 15 years ago. All I know is that the reserve armouries can work as parade squares and vehicle hangars can be used as large classrooms with most other classrooms being sufficient (albeit outdated) as classroom for a pl or a tp or two.

 

[FJAG]

Yeah it’s just sub optimal. Can work for a small seminar, but if we’re trying to train 150 soldiers ? We need multiple class rooms that can accommodate 30-50 soldiers at a time. I can’t think of a better set up than Edmonton’s lecture training facility, with a vehicle hanger beside it.

There are very few, but some, places that can do that.

Winnipeg would be a good choice. There's plenty of space on the RCAF base. You could redevelop both McGregor and Minto into multi-unit housing units al la London's Delta Armoury hotel.

Another is Toronto. I haven't been up at Dennison in a long time but it seems that both the armoury and unused land are adequate space for other facilities (just leave the ends of the runways alone ) Plus its 401 adjacent (and reasonably 400 adjacent.

St Hubert in Montreal could also be used a bit more but it's a bit far out of town meaning at least several of those armouries need to stay in operation.

Finally, I see a brigade operating out of London as well. Quite a bit of Wolseley Barracks is constrained but it could serve as the hub for a distributed brigade stretching throughout SW Ontario.

Everywhere else can riff of existing RegF and ARes infrastructure.

 

[dapaterson]

St Hubert on the south shore in Montreal is being developed into an alternative to YUL by Porter.

 

[daftandbarmy]

There are very few, but some, places that can do that.

Winnipeg would be a good choice. There's plenty of space on the RCAF base. You could redevelop both McGregor and Minto into multi-unit housing units al la London's Delta Armoury hotel.

Another is Toronto. I haven't been up at Dennison in a long time but it seems that both the armoury and unused land are adequate space for other facilities (just leave the ends of the runways alone ) Plus its 401 adjacent (and reasonably 400 adjacent.

St Hubert in Montreal could also be used a bit more but it's a bit far out of town meaning at least several of those armouries need to stay in operation.

Finally, I see a brigade operating out of London as well. Quite a bit of Wolseley Barracks is constrained but it could serve as the hub for a distributed brigade stretching throughout SW Ontario.

Everywhere else can riff of existing RegF and ARes infrastructure.

Thanks to a bad economy, skyrocketing crime, and misguided WFH policies there's alot of space available in the cities. The CAF should strike while the iron's hot

Canada's empty downtowns defy post-pandemic return-to-normal — and business owners are feeling the pain​

Business recipe for success disrupted as downtown cores transform from places where people work and spend money to places where they don't do much of either

Canada's empty downtowns defy post-pandemic return-to-normal — and business owners are feeling the pain

Businesses' recipe for success disrupted as downtowns transform from places to work, spend money to places where people do neither. Read on.

financialpost.com

 

[Brad Sallows]

Business recipe for success disrupted as downtown cores transform from places where people work and spend money to places where they don't do much of either

The bastards. That's only supposed to happen to company towns when the ore runs out.

 

[markppcli]

Kind of a non-starter. You know the Feds are building anything that big for the reserves anytime soon. Coulda woulda shoulda 15 years ago. All I know is that the reserve armouries can work as parade squares and vehicle hangars can be used as large classrooms with most other classrooms being sufficient (albeit outdated) as classroom for a pl or a tp or two.

Well in my dream of dreams you just sell off Jefferson armouries and parade the Edmonton reservists out of the LTF, 26 Fd should parade out of Shilo, Winnipeg would need a repurposing. Those are all examples of course. I know we’re talking local, but I think an adjustment to weekends vs daily parades allows fewer, larger facilities that are better designed to meet the needs of training.

 

[Aper]

St Hubert in Montreal could also be used a bit more but it's a bit far out of town meaning at least several of those armouries need to stay in operation.

Our infrastructures are brand new from a couple of years ago. We have a couple of units in St-Hubert; 34BNS, 438th Squadron, 41st MP and R de Mais (Maisonneuve Regiment).

We have a huge advantage to be right next to an airport that is currently being more and more commercialy developed, and meaning we could be a major turning point for the whole Montreal region as for logistics for the CAF.

 

[ueo]

There are very few, but some, places that can do that.

Winnipeg would be a good choice. There's plenty of space on the RCAF base. You could redevelop both McGregor and Minto into multi-unit housing units al la London's Delta Armoury hotel.

Another is Toronto. I haven't been up at Dennison in a long time but it seems that both the armoury and unused land are adequate space for other facilities (just leave the ends of the runways alone ) Plus its 401 adjacent (and reasonably 400 adjacent.

St Hubert in Montreal could also be used a bit more but it's a bit far out of town meaning at least several of those armouries need to stay in operation.

Finally, I see a brigade operating out of London as well. Quite a bit of Wolseley Barracks is constrained but it could serve as the hub for a distributed brigade stretching throughout SW Ontario.

Everywhere else can riff of existing RegF and ARes infrastructure.

Check history. London has been vollied back and fourthe twixt local and TO hqs for years. The base area is much reduced but seems to retain sufficent geography to support some new infrastructure ( read trg facilities etc,) so...

 

[daftandbarmy]

Well in my dream of dreams you just sell off Jefferson armouries and parade the Edmonton reservists out of the LTF, 26 Fd should parade out of Shilo, Winnipeg would need a repurposing. Those are all examples of course. I know we’re talking local, but I think an adjustment to weekends vs daily parades allows fewer, larger facilities that are better designed to meet the needs of training.

There are alot of schools that could be repurposed for ARes use, I think, just like the RM Rang did in Prince George.

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?pb=!1s0x538899432e9137ed%3A0xeab672b31cd91df9!3m1!7e115!4s%2Fmaps%2Fplace%2Frocky%2Bmountain%2Brangers%2Bprince%2Bgeorge%2F%4053.9334637%2C-122.8066892%2C3a%2C75y%2C281.46h%2C90t%2Fdata%3D*213m4*211e1*213m2*211sKAlqxfMBXmLnNVA8q1w03A*212e0*214m2*213m1*211s0x538899432e9137ed%3A0xeab672b31cd91df9%3Fsa%3DX%26ved%3D2ahUKEwjVnbW6oYOGAxXLAzQIHfH_D2gQpx96BAgwEAA!5srocky%20mountain%20rangers%20prince%20george%20-%20Google%20Search!15sCgIgAQ&imagekey=!1e2!2sKAlqxfMBXmLnNVA8q1w03A&hl=en&ved=1t%3A206134&ictx=111

 

[PrairieFella]

There are alot of schools that could be repurposed for ARes use, I think, just like the RM Rang did in Prince George.

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?pb=!1s0x538899432e9137ed%3A0xeab672b31cd91df9!3m1!7e115!4s%2Fmaps%2Fplace%2Frocky%2Bmountain%2Brangers%2Bprince%2Bgeorge%2F%4053.9334637%2C-122.8066892%2C3a%2C75y%2C281.46h%2C90t%2Fdata%3D*213m4*211e1*213m2*211sKAlqxfMBXmLnNVA8q1w03A*212e0*214m2*213m1*211s0x538899432e9137ed%3A0xeab672b31cd91df9%3Fsa%3DX%26ved%3D2ahUKEwjVnbW6oYOGAxXLAzQIHfH_D2gQpx96BAgwEAA!5srocky%20mountain%20rangers%20prince%20george%20-%20Google%20Search!15sCgIgAQ&imagekey=!1e2!2sKAlqxfMBXmLnNVA8q1w03A&hl=en&ved=1t%3A206134&ictx=111

Considering there is a national class size crisis going on especially in the more populated provinces, I think this suggestion is a little silly.

 

[Remius]

Considering there is a national class size crisis going on especially in the more populated provinces, I think this suggestion is a little silly.

Why? Plenty of empty schools in areas with no kids and older neighbourhood. Schools have classrooms, full on gyms and amphitheaters in a lot cases. Parking and normally a sports field as well as existing fencing. Perfect to house ARES units.