Armoured Taking Over as a FOO-Discussion

[FOO TECH G11]

recceguy - it is on paper somewhere, and you as armoured should be able to find it, but because of OP SEC, snowpuncher is not able to quote where the information has come from. I can verify this info as correct as can tech, that unless things change shortly on the TO&E, there will be no Artillery going as FOO/FAC's.

shelldrake - I can attest that the surv suite is an excellent piece of kit for surv., but as show in Ops, while working with the RCD's we still did eyes on targets at night as they used the surv suite for there work.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

How would OP SEC apply to where the info came from if the info itself is being posted???

 

[snowpuncher]

it is official now that the RCD'S have taken over the role as observers away from the artillery for roto3. i am literally disgusted in this and might as well give our guns to the svc bn so they can man them. i mean pretty much every operation overseas has at least one foo/fac team over there and now they are saying that the artillery is not required to send these personnel overseas so they might as well just disband the artillery if every time some unit loses some vechs ie the armoured losing there tanks. So this must mean that the army is going to
accommodation them by taking away traditional jobs that have been held for many years.Mainly with those idiots in Ottawa that sit behind a desk and don't know jack about the situation, considering that they will probally send the next roto over with out any force protection.

 

[Observer23]

Calm and clarity is required here.  Everyone and anyone can call in a fire mission.  Recce and Armoured guys often train to call in fire missions.  This is great.  Recce is the first to see the bad guys.  If the target warrants a couple of cans of whoop-ass, then by all means call it in (and don't be shy with the volume of fire).  This does not make them FEOs (FOOs).

Artillery observers are specialists.  Every soldier should know first-aid.  This does not mean we are all qualified as medics.  FEOs and FE techs are specialists just like medics.  They do a lot more that just call in a simple fire mission.  It is their job to fire plan and coordinate multiple fire support resources.  I've been doing this for almost two thirds of my career and I will be the first to admit I do not know everything.  To view artillery forward observation as a skill like knot tying is a bit short sighted.  It is a discipline that requires a constant commitment of continual learning, practice and evaluation of your results and thinking. 

FEOs advisor the Sup Arm Cmdr on what guns can do for their operation.  Who else knows the limitations and abilities of our own equipment?
FEOs establish OPs as directed by the BC.  We have depth battles to consider as well as local.
FEOs act as another set of eyes on the ground.  This benefits both the Sup Arms Cmdr and the FSCC to get a grip on the big picture.
FEOs investigate hostile indirect fire support resources.  This may include crater analysis (I've actually done this) or preparing counter battery data.
FEOs report back suitability of terrain for future gun positions.  I find it hard to believe anybody else (outside the artillery) would be able to do a proper estimate on terrain requirements for a gun battery.

Yes you could employ FE parties in their lay back role or as a solo act searching the countryside but that job is better suited to the guys in recce (armoured).  Every soldier can dig a trench with a shovel.  This does not qualify me as a backhoe operator.

 

[strat0]

We in the Armoured Corps have had qualified FAC's for years and they have been in high demand in operations, FAC qualified pers were Hel Observers (Armd, Inf & Arty) remember Kiawa's? The Armoured Corps is not taking over the role as FOO, we are used as Observers and do the job of Arty OP's (calling for fire). As for the RADAR we have the same MSTAR as you, we just started with the 1st generation version and are only now upgrading to the 2nd generation which you, in the Arty have. I have personaly called for fire with both the MSTAR and the Day Camera/FLIR at CTC Gagetown, in conjunction with the Arty School and I can say that the equipment is capable of 1 round adjust to hit the target 99% of the time. Using a laser point technique (given by the Arty) in our Recce TTP, a second round hit was always achieved. So I  don't understand where the accuracy issue comes from.

my 2 cents

 

[FOO TECH G11]

and what with observer23's immense knowledge in his toon time job, we can see just how far two thirds of his career can go

UBIQUE 

 

[Coyote43D]

currently we use the MSTAR, which has differences than the one in the Coyote. We use the MSTAR with the new LAV OPV.

We just upgraded the Radar on the Coyotes, we are now using the same MSTAR as on the LAV OPV.

 

[Recce41]

Fellas
The Armour Corp has had Foos and Facs. Remember Armour Recce regts had Mortors and most of the Army Pilots were Armour back in the 50s. As for the Radar, I have fired a few radar fire missions. The School is to have 8 FACs and 2 Armour FOO postions, but due that we are too busy, we don't send anyone.

 

[SHELLDRAKE!!]

Just to clarify things for those not up to speed on terminology, A FOO is a foreward observation officer who gets qualified on the foreward observation officers course including in depth fire planning. A FOO tech is the foreward observation officers technician who is also capeable of calling in fire, basic fireplanning and through time and experience can often be much more profficient than many FOO's(Yea thats my foo tech jab at officers). The FOO TECH course is currently run by the Artillery and almost always includes other arms elements such as armoured and infantry.

Someone correct me if im wrong but I know of no other arms elements currently being offered the FOO course. And just because you have the foo tech course, without practice in the IFT (indirect fire simulator) and application of your skills live in the field, you tend to lose the skills you learned on the foo tech course.

Again I will say that I fully support "cross training" so there are more people on the battlefield able to call in fire, but unless the skills are maintained (which usually can only happen within the Arty trade) the likelihood of a Battery commander alloting fire to someone who did a foo tech course in 1989 is slim to none.

As for the FAC course, I don't think it should even be verbally balled in with this topic as a FAC qualified person is equally ideal when placed in a FOO party or when placed with armour or infantry. Its just much easier placed in the FOO party since they are deployed at the foreward edge with the best view of the ground.

 

[muskrat89]

and what with observer23's immense knowledge in his toon time job, we can see just how far two thirds of his career can go

Nor does a catty response to a post 6 months old impress me.  You need to develop an "immense knowledge" of the Conduct Guidelines.

You can quit with the toon time comments, and maybe try to add something substantive to the thread. Thanks in advance.