Discriminating comments say far more about the person speaking than the subject matter of the comment. My concern vis-a-vis discrimination is with a person's actions towards another that is any other. Bad reports, deliberate sabotage, continuous assignment of s**t jobs. Those actions drive people away. But rather than report comments it is far better for the audience to turn their backs on the speaker and walk away or, to directly address the speaker as a group and inform them that their words are not acceptable. The courts should be able to devote their time to discriminating actions and leave society to deal with the tongue.
Are we becoming too Politically Correct?
- Thread starter Mediman14
- Start date
Most CAF MBRs can't escape a toxic work environment that easily!
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Well I am still a civi but from my civi interactions and people I know. This is the level of PC culture I currently have to deal with.
Here is some rules I follow and these have been around for years, the bigger the company the worse it gets. I have worked at IBM, Flour Daniels, Enbridge, Capital Power, Unisys etc..
1. Do not use pronouns in correspondence. Everyone is a "User" or an "Individual"
2. Always use "We" when using personal identifier in correspondence or conversations
3. Never ever have the opposite "sex" in a closed office situation. If you need to have a conversation on a one on one have HR in the room.
4. Always defer to HR if job performance is questioned of an employee
5. If it wasn't in an Email it wasn't said. Document everything. <--- This is my daily life
6. Follow up all meetings with an Email of Notes.
7. Canada is a single consent state for recordings, so record EVERYTHING.
8. Never get into an elevator with only one "sex" persons being in the elevator
9. Never show any tattoos. All my ink is hidden.
10. Never wear any perfume/cologne
11. Do not use fabric softeners or detergents with scent
12. Never engage in small talk with customer underlings outside of "how is the weather"
13. Apologize for everything before any work starts
14. Never speak on some ones behalf with out proof (usually emails)
15. Show up to "team" exercises but never ever opt in to go for after hour or personal stuff with coworkers
16. Never talk about family or personal business. If you need to take time off just "Personal business"
17. Ask for received receipts and read receipts on emails.
18. Never acknowledge received receipts and read receipts on emails.
20. Use ambiguous and convoluted language in sensitive emails, IE: Cloud, Opportunity, Challenge, Outstanding, etc..
21. Pretend to be dumb or deaf when asked questions that are loaded.
22. Don't voice any opinion especially religious or political in clients or work environment
23. Have an excuse for avoiding personal interaction outside of work. Gym, Volunteering, school.. I am in perpetual schooling.
24. Dress appropriately, look professional at all times.
25. When pressed for answers that may pertain to uncomfortable questions (political, personal, religious) Identify as a minority.. I am a perpetual immigrant and an outsider. Due to my skin color I avoid calling my self "Canadian" then say you have no real opinion on the matter
26. Look busy even if you are pretending because all your work is done. Do not give a reason for a supervisor, client, coworkers to bad mouth you.
27. Never put your hands in your pockets
28. Book everything in your Calendar
29. Know how to change the subject quickly
30. Never Ever engage in a Personal relationship with a coworker, customer, client. DON'T EAT WHERE YOU DEFECATE!
31. HAVE NO SOCIAL MEDIA Under your real identity!
I have been very successful in my personal career, still employed with no end in sight of work.
I have certain life rules and my main one is: "Hate everyone equally unless they give you a reason to love them"
I know this all sounds very cynical but a large chunk of my life has been spent outside of Canada and a long time ago I came to the realization that noone gives a crap about you and if you disapear the world will go on just fine with out you. So do your job and go home and enjoy your life your way.
Here is some rules I follow and these have been around for years, the bigger the company the worse it gets. I have worked at IBM, Flour Daniels, Enbridge, Capital Power, Unisys etc..
1. Do not use pronouns in correspondence. Everyone is a "User" or an "Individual"
2. Always use "We" when using personal identifier in correspondence or conversations
3. Never ever have the opposite "sex" in a closed office situation. If you need to have a conversation on a one on one have HR in the room.
4. Always defer to HR if job performance is questioned of an employee
5. If it wasn't in an Email it wasn't said. Document everything. <--- This is my daily life
6. Follow up all meetings with an Email of Notes.
7. Canada is a single consent state for recordings, so record EVERYTHING.
8. Never get into an elevator with only one "sex" persons being in the elevator
9. Never show any tattoos. All my ink is hidden.
10. Never wear any perfume/cologne
11. Do not use fabric softeners or detergents with scent
12. Never engage in small talk with customer underlings outside of "how is the weather"
13. Apologize for everything before any work starts
14. Never speak on some ones behalf with out proof (usually emails)
15. Show up to "team" exercises but never ever opt in to go for after hour or personal stuff with coworkers
16. Never talk about family or personal business. If you need to take time off just "Personal business"
17. Ask for received receipts and read receipts on emails.
18. Never acknowledge received receipts and read receipts on emails.
20. Use ambiguous and convoluted language in sensitive emails, IE: Cloud, Opportunity, Challenge, Outstanding, etc..
21. Pretend to be dumb or deaf when asked questions that are loaded.
22. Don't voice any opinion especially religious or political in clients or work environment
23. Have an excuse for avoiding personal interaction outside of work. Gym, Volunteering, school.. I am in perpetual schooling.
24. Dress appropriately, look professional at all times.
25. When pressed for answers that may pertain to uncomfortable questions (political, personal, religious) Identify as a minority.. I am a perpetual immigrant and an outsider. Due to my skin color I avoid calling my self "Canadian" then say you have no real opinion on the matter
26. Look busy even if you are pretending because all your work is done. Do not give a reason for a supervisor, client, coworkers to bad mouth you.
27. Never put your hands in your pockets
28. Book everything in your Calendar
29. Know how to change the subject quickly
30. Never Ever engage in a Personal relationship with a coworker, customer, client. DON'T EAT WHERE YOU DEFECATE!
31. HAVE NO SOCIAL MEDIA Under your real identity!
I have been very successful in my personal career, still employed with no end in sight of work.
I have certain life rules and my main one is: "Hate everyone equally unless they give you a reason to love them"
I know this all sounds very cynical but a large chunk of my life has been spent outside of Canada and a long time ago I came to the realization that noone gives a crap about you and if you disapear the world will go on just fine with out you. So do your job and go home and enjoy your life your way.
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Jarnhamar
Army.ca Myth
- Reaction score
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I've always found this discrimitory. What happens if I'm a gay male? Can I have women but not men alone in the office?
Same as above.
I don't evny your job at all.
daftandbarmy
Army.ca Dinosaur
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It's mainly about avoiding accusations of sexual assault, which tend to always go against the employer/ boss.
Jarnhamar
Army.ca Myth
- Reaction score
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When I worked with cadets one of their rules was no male staff alone in vehicles with female cadets. I understood that was to protect the staff as much as the kids, but I still found it weird it didn't carry over to a male staff in the vehicle with a male cadet (scout leaders? priests?).
It may still end up shooting me in the foot but as an adult dealing with another adult I refuse to have a witness in when I'm speaking with someone giving them shit or talking about bad performance. I'll straight up suggest they pull their phone out and record the conversation, and automatically behave like everything I say is being recorded.
It may still end up shooting me in the foot but as an adult dealing with another adult I refuse to have a witness in when I'm speaking with someone giving them shit or talking about bad performance. I'll straight up suggest they pull their phone out and record the conversation, and automatically behave like everything I say is being recorded.
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I was asked a couple of times to mentor cadets. I politely declined. One accusation of sexual misconduct, even when proven false, will not be believed by all. It will follow and tarnish you for life. Not to mention the public scrutiny, investigations, lawyers and courts with their related costs, monetary and otherwise.
Weinie
Army.ca Veteran
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I understand your reluctance . And that in of itself is a sad commentary and legacy for cadets. We have had literally thousands of decent folks over decades volunteer their time to produce outstanding young men and women in the Cadet movement. Shame that it has come to this.
- Reaction score
- 48
- Points
- 530
There is a reason "sex" is in quotes. If "gender" is an identity so can "sex". Nothing is off limits to interpretation these days.
I have standing Open door policy. Not as in my door is always open as I never close my door when some one is in my office.
At least with this "pandemic" situation the office is now closed and I work from home. I don't have to deal with this crap at all.
Its worse now cause I've seen employees repramanted in front of all coworkers cause manager or HR accidentally called the group instead of the person.
I honestly don't care any more, I can work a minimum wage and still do ok for myself.
I have standing Open door policy. Not as in my door is always open as I never close my door when some one is in my office.
At least with this "pandemic" situation the office is now closed and I work from home. I don't have to deal with this crap at all.
Its worse now cause I've seen employees repramanted in front of all coworkers cause manager or HR accidentally called the group instead of the person.
I honestly don't care any more, I can work a minimum wage and still do ok for myself.
- Reaction score
- 1,481
- Points
- 1,260
Congratulations on being very successful in your personal career.
I'm no longer in the PRes, and I've never worked in an office. But, I have worked with a female partner. That meant sleeping ( on separate couches with blankets and pillows ) in the same room, and sharing the same sink, toilet and shower ( not at the same time, of course ) on 12-hour night shifts. Just the two of us. No other crew. No supervisor. We got alone fine. Better than fine, you might say. Because she's your partner. And partners trust each other.
To all of which he replied: 'what a tragic commentary. And there is no visible solution because people simply don't trust or respect. Treat every one with suspicion, never be alone with anyone, and never give someone who is not family a hug when they need it. Sure glad that I am older, retired, and succeeded in working my entire career before all this crap became important.'
- Reaction score
- 48
- Points
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The world is what it is. I cannot change it. The Private sector is just as bad the public sector and in many cases worse. Grass is rarely greener on the other side. Simple fact is that we are all humandoings and not humanbeings. Once the system is done with you it will discard you and the only way to survive is to simply play the game better then everyone else until you don't need to play the game at all. Political correctness is here to stay and is not going away.
That seems like a lot of things to be conscious of. That’s the point of all this conversations. When I served, I learn to always have a witness to any conversation with any subordinate. It is amazing how much it gets twisted. Second, it’s a Shame that we have to record conversations Because can’t trust the other person. Towards my last year or two serving, I found myself having to record all conversations with any supervisor. I could not trust them and history had shown that. In my last unit ( Medical Unit) patients was recording any medical appointments they had.
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One thing you hear in the Army, "You'll get used to it."
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Let me know how that "not my problem" thing goes. I happen to know that you are dead wrong. And perhaps soon enough the "not my problem" crowd will be introduced to administrative monetary penalties to assist them in learning this.
Simply stated: you are accountable for your choice of wording - whatever it is. You always have been, actually, it's just that people are not tolerating the bullshit any longer.
lenaitch
Army.ca Veteran
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Gosh. I guess the world has changed. During my time as a road warrior, I could never have patrolled with, trained or supervised a member of the opposite persuasion. It would have been hard to involve HR in all discussions when they are 20 hours away. During my time in a large 4-storey building with approx. 750 workers, I could barely have moved. I suppose phones that record have made things a little easier - I spent much time making copious notes of things that needed recording.
In 31 years, perhaps I was lucky that I was directly subordinate to a grand total of two superiors who were actually bad; several that were less than effective and a few that I just plain didn't like but that, in and of itself, didn't make them bad. Some co-workers, peers, subordinates and superiors didn't like me. So be it.
I fully understood that I was immensely replaceable. I never felt that the rest of humanity had an agenda. Perhaps it does now. Sad.
GR66
Army.ca Veteran
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I guess it may be a generational thing, but I think it would be exhausting to live my life like that. I'm fortunate I guess that I've never felt that I've had to feel so guarded in my professional career. I'm naturally a fairly reserved person, so I guess I don't expose my self to much "risk" at work, but that being said I don't make any effort to hide who I am or how I think/feel.
I spend more time at work than anywhere else so I can't imagine not feeling I can "be myself" for the majority of my life. Perhaps I've just been fortunate in not facing someone who's wanted to take advantage and put me in a bind, but I've always just tried to work with my peers and subordinates to get the job done. While I'm certainly not "friends" with everyone I work with (and there have definitely been some that I haven't respected or liked), I've never viewed/treated my co-workers as threats.
That's just me though. Certainly not going to judge others for making the choices that they feel are right for them. If it works for you and you're happy then that's what counts.
- Reaction score
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It has changed. There were no women on our department for my first ten years. Even the dispatchers were all men. I distinctly remember older men who refused to be partnered with women.
Seems sort of funny, in a way, now looking back. But, at the time, not all the wives were on-board with the idea.
( I didn't do the hiring. Not trying to justify it. That's just the way it was. )
Firemen's Wives Fight For Chauvinism on Job
SAN DIEGO, July 27—The San Diego Civil Service Commission and the Fire Department have been kept busy this month trying to douse the anger of nearly 300 firemens’ wives who are determined to preserve the fire station as one of the last citadels of male chauvinism.Banded together as Concerned Wives of Firemen, the irate women threaten to go to court in an effort to block a decision to enlist 35 female firefighters who would share the heretofore all‐male sleeping quarters in San Diego's fire stations.
While volunteer fire departments and some smalltown departments have hired women firefighters, the International Association of Fire Chiefs said it believed the action here would make San Diego the nation's first major city to hire women on a wide scale as paid firefighters.
At one stormy meeting with city officials, Marguerite B. Beaton, wife of. a 15‐year veteran of the department, demanded: “How ,am I going to explain to my six children why their daddy goes to work and sleeps next to another woman? I'm the only woman who has a right to shower with my husband.”
“Our families and homes will be threatened if they bring women into the firehouses where they will share dormitories and bathing facilities with the men during their 24‐hour duty shifts,” she insisted.
For full story,
Firemen's Wives Fight For Chauvinism on Job - The New York Times (nytimes.com)
Oldgateboatdriver
Army.ca Veteran
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You had exactly the same reaction from sailors wives in Canada, the UK and the USA when "women-at-sea" was introduced.
We made it work within the confines of a warship ... Grow up women of San Diego.
We made it work within the confines of a warship ... Grow up women of San Diego.
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Unfortunately, progress has been slow in some cities,
09/07/2011 02:51 pm ET Updated Dec 06, 2017
How many women belonged to the New York City Fire Department on 9/11?
There was a very small number. [There were] 11,000 or so [firefighters in the FDNY], and there were approximately 25 [female] firefighters. Our numbers were very tiny. When I won my lawsuit and I brought women into the NYFD in 1982, there were 42 of us. Now there are 29.
Brenda Berkman, Former New York City Fire Department Captain, Talks Women At Ground Zero
Brenda Berkman, Former New York City Fire Department Captain, Talks Women At Ground Zero
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