Allowances - Post Living Differential (PLD) [MERGED]

[Edward Campbell]

More on the PLD, this time at Cold Lake, in this article which is reproduced without comment under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the Winnipeg Free press:

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/military-staff-in-cold-lake-forced-to-find-second-jobs-214868501.html

Military staff in Cold Lake forced to find second jobs

By: Murray Brewster

OTTAWA -- Junior members of the military at the airbase in Cold Lake, Alta., have to take second jobs to make ends meet, says a new report from the military ombudsman.

Pierre Daigle investigated the sky-high cost of living in the resource-rich region of Alberta after complaints from people posted to 4 Wing, a major jet-fighter base.

"I was surprised," Daigle said in an interview Tuesday.

Some families are struggling to pay bills by selling off possessions and go to great lengths to keep their children in extracurricular activities.

The mostly non-commissioned members aren't trying to get ahead -- they need the extra income to survive, said Daigle.

"They are just trying to keep what they have and what they have built up over their lifetimes," he said.

The cost of living at Cold Lake has soared in recent years, driven by growth in the local oil-and-gas industry, the report found.

As many as a third of the members of one squadron have had to take second jobs.

The investigation also found some air force members choose to retire rather than accept a posting at the base.

The finding should alarm military brass, because it affects operational effectiveness and getting the right people in the jobs, Daigle said.

The problem is no surprise to the town's mayor, Craig Copeland, who said many businesses in the city depend on the part-time labour pool created by military members.
Copeland suggested the numbers in the ombudsman's report may even understate the problem.

Daigle says there's little off-base accommodation available and rent for military housing at Cold Lake is double that charged at major airbases in Greenwood, N.S., and Bagotville, Que.

He recommends National Defence re-examine a posting allowance that reflects economic conditions around the base.

The Post Living Differential has been a lightning rod for troops since 2009 when changes were suggested that would have used Ottawa as the benchmark for the subsidy.

Soldiers and other military personnel receive a stipend whenever they're posted in a high-cost area of the country, but the allowance is divided between rural and urban areas.

The net effect is air force crews and technicians posted in Cold Lake receive 50 per cent less allowance than those in Edmonton, despite the wide cost difference.

Defence Minister Peter MacKay said the government recognizes the problem and is taking steps to ease the pain. Recently a number of military housing construction projects and renovations were announced for the base.

A rent freeze was also imposed.

-- The Canadian Press

Republished from the Winnipeg Free Press print edition July 10, 2013

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Just remember it is taxable; it is not part your pay (meaning an income letter to get a mortgage will not include this amount); and Hfx is knowingly artificially high and will be cut in half (my guess) when the MND leaves this portfolio.

Taxed fairly stiffly; of the $631 you see about $182/pay run.

Considering the amount of income tax payable in NS compared to say, Ont, for a Cpl/LS...PLD doesn't actually cover it.  I can't agree with the PLD being 'high' based on that. 

However, having said that, COL in the Valley is also comparable to HRM (IMO) and there is no PLD there so.... :Tin-Foil-Hat:

 

[TCM621]

IMO, if you cut PMQ rent in half you solve most of these issues with Cost of Living and horrid attrition of young personnel coming in. If you want to take the risk of buying property in town that is your own financial choice, but why punish those who chose to live in Q's? I believe this has to be solved within the next few years or else the operational capability of the Wing will be limited drastically, the affects are already starting to hit the gun squadrons...

General Blondin spoke about this at a town hall a few months ago. The problem is that the CF doesn't control the rent in the PMQs. They are tied to the rental cost in the community. He, and the CF, were exploring regaining control of PMQs in order to lower prices and ensure they meet standards. As he put it, the PMQs in Cold Lake are so shitty his wife would allow his family to live there and they cost more than a large house at many other bases.

 

[stokerwes]

I lived in NS for 20+ years. When I was posted to Ontario the difference between taxes and everything else was tremendously lower. I lost sea pay (highest level) and PLD and my wife was still able to take a year off of work and still live comfortably.
I don't think PLD in Halifax is high enough! I lost approx 1600/month (before tax) and still have a quality of life that is better than I had in Halifax.
:2c:

 

[PuckChaser]

I wonder if part of the solution to PLD would be to have a similar system to the US military for tax purposes: Military members declare their province of residence, and they pay the tax according to that province's rate, even link it to your SOR for voting. Take a bit of the financial hit off being posted to Que/NS/Man for everyone.

 

[PAdm]

I wonder if part of the solution to PLD would be to have a similar system to the US military for tax purposes: Military members declare their province of residence, and they pay the tax according to that province's rate, even link it to your SOR for voting. Take a bit of the financial hit off being posted to Que/NS/Man for everyone.

I would like a "citizen of Canada" approach where we pay a Fed and average Prov tax, but have a hybrid status to make interprovincial moves seamless. I know, impossible but provincial residency is a nuisance.

 

[stokerwes]

I would like a "citizen of Canada" approach where we pay a Fed and average Prov tax, but have a hybrid status to make interprovincial moves seamless. I know, impossible but provincial residency is a nuisance.

Yes it would be nice. I remember a few times I was out of country for more than 10 months of the year and still paying provincial taxes.

 

[donaldk]

I wonder if part of the solution to PLD would be to have a similar system to the US military for tax purposes: Military members declare their province of residence, and they pay the tax according to that province's rate, even link it to your SOR for voting. Take a bit of the financial hit off being posted to Que/NS/Man for everyone.

Agreed.  I wouldn't be so opposed to a Quebec posting then (... although it isn't much worse then NS)

 

[dimsum]

Another article about the pay v. expenses discrepancy at CFB Cold Lake. 

I was dismayed to read the recent reports of military members at CFB Cold Lake being forced to take on second jobs due to an apparent incongruence in cost of living and wages earned by junior ranks.

Canadian Forces ombudsman Pierre Daigle has reportedly found that one-third of the squadron posted to Cold Lake are forced to take on second jobs because of financial constraints. Apparently, the number of soldiers reported to be in this unfortunate position may have been understated.

If even somewhat true, I'm surprised that anyone stays more than a few years before getting out of the CF, especially in the Fighter tech trades who supposedly are posted there for 10+ years.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/opinion/columnists/McKay+living+wage+would+boost+soldiers+morale/8686168/story.html

 

[Wookilar]

I would have to say that we do make a "living wage."

An untrained Pte, basically unskilled labour, makes over $30K. Cpl 4 makes almost $60K at the journeyman-trade level. That's before any of the spec trades get their spec pay (which is considerable).

While Mr McKay hits it on the head in asking for a PLD review, he misses the boat by directly asking for more pay (which will be rejected outright. But I suspect he already knows that).

More pay is not the way to go (IMHO).

A PLD system that is actually responsive along with a Treasury Board that actually looks after us (instead of strictly the bottom line) is what we need.

 

[dapaterson]

A "responsive" PLD will mean more volatility in PLD; it would likely mean significant decreases in some places.  And as no government ever wants to be seen as reducing benefits (and this one, particularly not to the military) that's a non-starter.

 

[MikeL]

Out of curiosity, does Cold lake have much Single Quarters and PMQs available? Is the cost of living only high off base in Cold Lake, or is it just as expensive to have a PMQ there?

 

[dapaterson]

Remember, SQs and PMQs are supposed to be market priced; there is not supposed to be a subsidy.  I recall the MND announcing a freeze at Cold Lake last year, but prices will still be somewhat high.

 

[captloadie]

There are single quarters and RHU's available. Up until this month, all single quarters were with room mates. There is now the option to get your own room for an extra $210/ mth. There are at least 300 single members living in RHUs, doubling and tripling up by choice. Rent for RHUs runs between 900-1500 I believe, and is about 100-150% below market value, so the rates increase annually and whenever someone moves out. The average house price in Cold Lake is about 365K, with recent members posted in saying they couldn't fine decent family housing for under 400K. Rents are ridiculous in town. They range from $800/mth for an illegal apartment (1 room in the basement with some shared access), to 2400+/mth for any type of house/condo. Add into that the additional cost of living (more for groceries, daycare, vehicle/home maintenance) and you quickly get the picture.

Also, there is a large gap in the quality of life between the different MOCs. Not everyone is a pilot or gets spec pay. A lot of the support trades (read Log), and DND civilians are trying to get by on significantly less, and honestly I'm not sure how single members, or one income families are doing it.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Then it's time for the Govt. to start leaning on the local politicians, since I'm sure most of them just happen to have rental properties, about moving the base where personal can afford to live.

.............here in Guelph a few years ago when the University talked about building a ton more student rental places on it's own property there was, just coincidentally I'm sure, a quick drop in apartment/room rental costs.

 

[captloadie]

We work pretty closely with the city here, and they aren't necessarily the bad guys. With oil and gas companies moving in, some  paying up to $4000/mth for a living allowance, everyone is taking advantage where they can. There have been talk of putting camps on the outskirts of the city, but this is meeting with alot of push back from those who have a stake in the game (developers, property owners, etc).

 

[MJP]

Sounds very similar to Edmonton in 2005-07 were any affordable housing for young families had multiple bidders and the rental vacancy rate was under .5%.  Well I have no hope for a pay raise, I would like to think that the Govt will do a PLD review sooner rather than later.  The downside of that is as Dapa has pointed out it will mean cuts for certain areas.  Which is the way PLD is suppose to be in that it moves up and down dependant on the situation in a certain area.  However it probably means we get to see more "poor down trodden" mbrs or thier wifes on the news complaining about the mean military cutting their pay.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Sounds very similar to Edmonton in 2005-07 were any affordable housing for young families had multiple bidders and the rental vacancy rate was under .5%.  Well I have no hope for a pay raise, I would like to think that the Govt will do a PLD review sooner rather than later.  The downside of that is as Dapa has pointed out it will mean cuts for certain areas.  Which is the way PLD is suppose to be in that it moves up and down dependant on the situation in a certain area.  However it probably means we get to see more "poor down trodden" mbrs or thier wifes on the news complaining about the mean military cutting their pay.

We, Canada, are, as I have said before, "overdue a comprehensive review of ranks and trades (and trade levels) and the qualifications and pay for both." The existing system, if it deserves that name, is like Topsy, from Uncle Tom's Cabin, it "just growed." It has one very, very good feature: it is "benchmarked" to the public service which means that the fruitless pay reviews of the 1950s and '60s are things of the past ~ there is a "system" for setting out base pay scales. The actual benchmarks may need to be reviewed and adjusted but the principle is sound. Things like PLDs also "just growed" to make up for inadequacies‎ in the basic system.

There needs to be a thoroughgoing review to determine what the basic rank/trade/pay requirements might be. One interesting question will be: are they the same for all services?

That same review needs to define allowances, of all sorts, and why and how they are paid.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

ER,

So are you advocating more of a tasked based pay scale (Cpl Infantry different from Cpl AVS from Cpl Sup Tech from Cpl Veh Tech,  from LS Boatswain) similar to civi street or a review of our current rank based pay system to try and improve the situation?

 

[Edward Campbell]

ER,

So are you advocating more of a tasked based pay scale (Cpl Infantry different from Cpl AVS from Cpl Sup Tech from Cpl Veh Tech,  from LS Boatswain) similar to civi street or a review of our current rank based pay system to try and improve the situation?

I'm not "advocating" much of anything except that I think ~ I'm sure ~ that, after 45 years, a pay structure review is past due, but:

    My opinion is that leadership and/or technical management/supervision skills ought to be prerequisites for promotion to any rank ~ which is why I find favour with the US Army's
    specialist grades and with our trade groups. Leaders ought to be paid more than specialists. Combat leadership, in F Ech or even A2 Ech, exacts a physical and mental toll, it ought to be rewarded.

    It is also my opinion that we ought to be prepared to pay a premium for certain high skill and high (civilian) value trades and specialities ~ we are in a "business," of sorts, after all.

    In a long career I was never upset that people who flew aircraft or sailed ships (especially ships that went under the water intentionally) or kept me healthy were paid more than me. I was, equally, content, that an
    officer of the same rank and classification as me who made his living sleeping on the ground while I slept in my own warm, dry (accompanied) bed was getting an allowance.

    I believed, when I served, and I still believe now, that officers who are Commanding Officers or who command formations (MOGs, brigades, wings) should be paid a command allowance. I know that along
    with the many pleasures and privileges of command there are costs - monetary and other.

My list could go on and on and on ... which is why you want a team - military and civilian and the latter from government and the private sector - to do a formal, determined and complete review.