All eyes on Ignatieff
- Thread starter Edward Campbell
- Start date
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I wonder if, after reading this article, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act from the National Post, the ratio of Liberals who oppose Iggy Iffy Icarus will grow from 3 in 10 to 4 in 10?
http://network.nationalpost.com/NP/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2010/03/11/john-ivison-ignatieff-delivers-his-dream-from-the-throne.aspx
If Ivison is right then it speaks to disorder in the OLO (Office of the Leader of the Opposition) where the question period strategy is crafted. I agree that most Canadians are worried about the economy, jobs, recovery and so on and they really are, I think, looking for an alternative to Harper, an alternative that they know Jack Layton cannot offer. That being the case, Prince Michael is leaving the field open to Harper … and Rae?
For whom is Peter Donolo really working?
http://network.nationalpost.com/NP/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2010/03/11/john-ivison-ignatieff-delivers-his-dream-from-the-throne.aspx
If Ivison is right then it speaks to disorder in the OLO (Office of the Leader of the Opposition) where the question period strategy is crafted. I agree that most Canadians are worried about the economy, jobs, recovery and so on and they really are, I think, looking for an alternative to Harper, an alternative that they know Jack Layton cannot offer. That being the case, Prince Michael is leaving the field open to Harper … and Rae?
For whom is Peter Donolo really working?
- Reaction score
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- Points
- 1,090
E.R. Campbell said:The Globe and Mail's editorial cartoonist, Anthony Jenkins, offers this pretty accurate summary of the Liberal's decision to vote against the budget but not with enough members to force an election - reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act from the Globe and Mail:
http://v1.theglobeandmail.com/cartoon/
I admit I'm a bit late in noticing this, but I recall that there was a $10000 reward offered for the hockey gear, and nothing for the spine.
- Reaction score
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- Points
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Pathétique doesn’t mean quite the same as pathetic, in English, but it is hard not to feel great sorrow for Micfael Ignatieff if this story, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act is to be believed:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ignatieff-backs-off-bipartisan-immigration-reform-deal-amid-caucus-revolt/article1593177/
Ignatieff said, “'I'm tough on that stuff … I want a legitimate, lawful refugee system …' but most of my MPs want to find narrow, partisan wedge points so I’ll get back to what I really, really want, which is to get back to Harvard with some small shred of my dignity still attached to my name."
He’s pathetic, and his situation is pathétique, full of pathos.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ignatieff-backs-off-bipartisan-immigration-reform-deal-amid-caucus-revolt/article1593177/
Ignatieff said, “'I'm tough on that stuff … I want a legitimate, lawful refugee system …' but most of my MPs want to find narrow, partisan wedge points so I’ll get back to what I really, really want, which is to get back to Harvard with some small shred of my dignity still attached to my name."
He’s pathetic, and his situation is pathétique, full of pathos.
He's got a real problem with Denis Coderre and the rest of the Quebec caucus, if this is any indication. The whole party seems unsettled in what it wants to represent, other than getting back into power.
I never thought I would say this, but Rae strikes me as being a better potential leader than Iggy. I hope they keep Iggy.
I never thought I would say this, but Rae strikes me as being a better potential leader than Iggy. I hope they keep Iggy.
And then there is this piece by Jim Travers in the Toronto Star, reproduced under the Fair Comment provisions of the Copyright Act:
Some Liberals aren’t laughing at Jean Chrétien’s barbed joke about a return from the political grave. With another federal election fast approaching and Michael Ignatieff leading the party nowhere, panicking Liberals are looking everywhere except within themselves for a quick fix.
This week’s caucus implosion over support for Conservative immigration change is one of many symptoms of a once dominant party in steep decline and startling disarray. Ignatieff has lost his personal compass and seems physically exhausted. Alf Apps, one of the supplicants who lured Ignatieff back from Harvard, is expected to step down soon from the presidency of a party failing to fill its campaign coffers. Liberals in and out of Parliament are again searching for a messiah, or even an NDP coalition, to lead them from the wasteland back to power.
A measure of the madness here is the seriousness some backroom Liberals are lending to Chrétien’s mischievous remark that he, like Britain’s iconic William Gladstone, might return in old age for a fourth term. Astonishingly, Chrétien’s resurrection as interim leader continues to circulate here along with speculation about the NDP coalition the former Prime Minister is exploring.
Chrétien was arguably his generation’s most shrewdly intuitive politician and at 76 is still impressively vigorous. But retreating to the future would be as risky a Liberal solution as abandoning its brand.
A nostalgic Chrétien honeymoon would soon be cut short by nagging Conservative reminders of his Quebec sponsorship fling. And Liberals seduced by the idea of uniting the political left are forgetting that that their party wins when it controls the policy centre Harper is shifting right.
That’s not all Liberals are forgetting. Their current agony is rooted in expedient leadership decisions that began with letting Paul Martin escape the necessary crucible of a testing campaign. Forgotten, too, is that parties shooting inwards become wounded prey for outside predators.
One thing Liberals are noticing is that the problem isn’t staff around the leader; it is the leader. Dumping Ian Davey for Peter Donolo hasn’t significantly improved Ignatieff’s performance or provided a sustained opinion poll lift.
Liberals who saw in Ignatieff’s public intellectual persona the potential to race up a steep political learning curve now see only a surprisingly empty vessel tossed by uncertainty. They whisper that a summer equivalent of Pierre Trudeau’s pre-resignation walk in the snow would improve party prospects and Ignatieff’s mood.
But what then? Bob Rae might save seats Liberals now consider lost but the former Ontario NDP leader still faces fierce internal resistance. Falling back on the old guard signals desperation and the next leadership generation is far from ready to move the party forward.
There’s no sudden exit from this self-made labyrinth. Fears are real that a listless, often loose-lipped Ignatieff may lead Liberals to disaster in a campaign already framed by Conservatives around Stephen Harper’s leadership advantage and coalition warnings.
Even so, critical self-analysis and restored discipline can still make Liberals and Ignatieff the alternative democracy demands. Public fury over summit security costs is all the hook needed to hang on Harper a history of wild spending that gnawed through an inherited $13-billion surplus and set Canada en route for deficits long before the recession. At the same time, Liberals need to climb off the coalition fence to clearly define who they are.
Ending the current panic begins with recognizing that Chrétien’s return is a flat joke and that restoring the party is slow, hard, serious work.
Some Liberals aren’t laughing at Jean Chrétien’s barbed joke about a return from the political grave. With another federal election fast approaching and Michael Ignatieff leading the party nowhere, panicking Liberals are looking everywhere except within themselves for a quick fix.
This week’s caucus implosion over support for Conservative immigration change is one of many symptoms of a once dominant party in steep decline and startling disarray. Ignatieff has lost his personal compass and seems physically exhausted. Alf Apps, one of the supplicants who lured Ignatieff back from Harvard, is expected to step down soon from the presidency of a party failing to fill its campaign coffers. Liberals in and out of Parliament are again searching for a messiah, or even an NDP coalition, to lead them from the wasteland back to power.
A measure of the madness here is the seriousness some backroom Liberals are lending to Chrétien’s mischievous remark that he, like Britain’s iconic William Gladstone, might return in old age for a fourth term. Astonishingly, Chrétien’s resurrection as interim leader continues to circulate here along with speculation about the NDP coalition the former Prime Minister is exploring.
Chrétien was arguably his generation’s most shrewdly intuitive politician and at 76 is still impressively vigorous. But retreating to the future would be as risky a Liberal solution as abandoning its brand.
A nostalgic Chrétien honeymoon would soon be cut short by nagging Conservative reminders of his Quebec sponsorship fling. And Liberals seduced by the idea of uniting the political left are forgetting that that their party wins when it controls the policy centre Harper is shifting right.
That’s not all Liberals are forgetting. Their current agony is rooted in expedient leadership decisions that began with letting Paul Martin escape the necessary crucible of a testing campaign. Forgotten, too, is that parties shooting inwards become wounded prey for outside predators.
One thing Liberals are noticing is that the problem isn’t staff around the leader; it is the leader. Dumping Ian Davey for Peter Donolo hasn’t significantly improved Ignatieff’s performance or provided a sustained opinion poll lift.
Liberals who saw in Ignatieff’s public intellectual persona the potential to race up a steep political learning curve now see only a surprisingly empty vessel tossed by uncertainty. They whisper that a summer equivalent of Pierre Trudeau’s pre-resignation walk in the snow would improve party prospects and Ignatieff’s mood.
But what then? Bob Rae might save seats Liberals now consider lost but the former Ontario NDP leader still faces fierce internal resistance. Falling back on the old guard signals desperation and the next leadership generation is far from ready to move the party forward.
There’s no sudden exit from this self-made labyrinth. Fears are real that a listless, often loose-lipped Ignatieff may lead Liberals to disaster in a campaign already framed by Conservatives around Stephen Harper’s leadership advantage and coalition warnings.
Even so, critical self-analysis and restored discipline can still make Liberals and Ignatieff the alternative democracy demands. Public fury over summit security costs is all the hook needed to hang on Harper a history of wild spending that gnawed through an inherited $13-billion surplus and set Canada en route for deficits long before the recession. At the same time, Liberals need to climb off the coalition fence to clearly define who they are.
Ending the current panic begins with recognizing that Chrétien’s return is a flat joke and that restoring the party is slow, hard, serious work.
- Reaction score
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- Points
- 1,160
Old Sweat said:
So true. Go back to the first page of this thread; there were high hopes for
U.S. academic offers Ignatieff lessons on charisma
Article Link
CTV.ca News Staff Saturday Jun. 5, 2010 7:25 AM ET
An American academic has some advice for Canadian Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff: stop talking issues and start talking morality.
George Lakoff, a professor of linguistics at University of California Berkeley, told CTV's Power Play that his studies of the language of politics show that the most successful politicians are those who connect with voters by using a few simple principles.
First and foremost, he said, is the importance of talking about why a policy or program is important rather than simply listing off its merits.
And that is what Ignatieff needs to learn, Lakoff said.
"What Ignatieff does is he talks about the details of policy rather than start with the moral principle … and saying: ‘Here is why this is right,'" he said.
"Secondly, you have to connect with people. People have to feel that you're authentic, that you're believable and that you care about them."
Lakoff, who has written extensively about what he calls the "cognitive linguistics" of American politics, said the Liberal leader has a lot of work to do.
"He has to seriously connect with the population. He has to stop just giving lists of programs and tell why those programs are there, what are the moral values behind them," he said. "He has to say those moral values over and over and then tell how they apply … so that people get it and they aren't confused."
Lakoff took his greatest lessons from right-wing American politicians, such as former president Ronald Reagan, who became known as "the great communicator."
"People wanted to vote for Reagan even when they didn't like his policies," Lakoff said.
That was because the former actor talked about values and morality, instead of issues, could connect with the public and came across as authentic.
"If you have those three things then people will trust you … even if they disagree with you," he said. "And then they can identify with you."
Even former president George W. Bush learned how to talk and act like a stereotypical Texan, boosting his popularity enormously.
"Charisma is not just magic," Lakoff said. "It takes some training and understanding what it is you're saying and saying what you believe."
"(But) if George Bush could create it, then so could Michael Ignatieff."
end
Article Link
CTV.ca News Staff Saturday Jun. 5, 2010 7:25 AM ET
An American academic has some advice for Canadian Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff: stop talking issues and start talking morality.
George Lakoff, a professor of linguistics at University of California Berkeley, told CTV's Power Play that his studies of the language of politics show that the most successful politicians are those who connect with voters by using a few simple principles.
First and foremost, he said, is the importance of talking about why a policy or program is important rather than simply listing off its merits.
And that is what Ignatieff needs to learn, Lakoff said.
"What Ignatieff does is he talks about the details of policy rather than start with the moral principle … and saying: ‘Here is why this is right,'" he said.
"Secondly, you have to connect with people. People have to feel that you're authentic, that you're believable and that you care about them."
Lakoff, who has written extensively about what he calls the "cognitive linguistics" of American politics, said the Liberal leader has a lot of work to do.
"He has to seriously connect with the population. He has to stop just giving lists of programs and tell why those programs are there, what are the moral values behind them," he said. "He has to say those moral values over and over and then tell how they apply … so that people get it and they aren't confused."
Lakoff took his greatest lessons from right-wing American politicians, such as former president Ronald Reagan, who became known as "the great communicator."
"People wanted to vote for Reagan even when they didn't like his policies," Lakoff said.
That was because the former actor talked about values and morality, instead of issues, could connect with the public and came across as authentic.
"If you have those three things then people will trust you … even if they disagree with you," he said. "And then they can identify with you."
Even former president George W. Bush learned how to talk and act like a stereotypical Texan, boosting his popularity enormously.
"Charisma is not just magic," Lakoff said. "It takes some training and understanding what it is you're saying and saying what you believe."
"(But) if George Bush could create it, then so could Michael Ignatieff."
end
- Reaction score
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- 940
GAP said:
So Iggy just has to learn to fake sincerity.
- Reaction score
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- Points
- 1,160
I think Prof. Lakoff is missing one thing: values. Reagan and Bush had 'em, even though a majority of Americans did not share them. It is not clear to me that Iggy Iffy Icarus has any or, assuming he does, they may be in a state of flux or perhaps he has suspended them for the duration of his visit to Stornoway.
Prince Michael had some values; he made a good living as a"public intellectual" intellectual provocateur in Britain and America, challenging the "liberal" assumptions of his colleagues in academe and the media and offering some interesting views on policies and the politics involved in implementing them. Perhaps his own values were not always on display; perhaps he kept - and still keeps - himself 'under wraps,' inaccessable to the hoi polloi.
In any event, it is hard, maybe impossible, to follow Lakoff's advice (with which I agree, by the way) unless and until one expresses a set of values.
Stephen Harper, too, should consider Prof. Lakoff's views.
Prince Michael had some values; he made a good living as a
In any event, it is hard, maybe impossible, to follow Lakoff's advice (with which I agree, by the way) unless and until one expresses a set of values.
Stephen Harper, too, should consider Prof. Lakoff's views.
- Reaction score
- 3
- Points
- 430
Journeyman said:
"If George Bush can anybody can." Rah, rah, rah! Tiger, tiger, tiger! Siss, siss, siss! Boom, boom, boom ;D
- Reaction score
- 7,777
- Points
- 1,160
And with values comes predictability, which is what people, and markets, crave more than anything else.
You may not like the fact that your government causes toilet paper shortages in July and you have to:
a stock up in advance
b stand in line
c trade that shampoo that you have in surplus from the last government created glut.
But if you know that is the way that your economy works then you can plan for the future and ensure that you have a steady supply of TP.
Similarly you can predict which actions will get you thrown in jail and which will advance your career.
All of that falls out from leadership that is based on values. The rules of the game, like rugby and hockey, are clearly defined and (bar some silliness like redefining the 25 yard mark as 22 meters) unchanging.
You may not like the fact that your government causes toilet paper shortages in July and you have to:
a stock up in advance
b stand in line
c trade that shampoo that you have in surplus from the last government created glut.
But if you know that is the way that your economy works then you can plan for the future and ensure that you have a steady supply of TP.
Similarly you can predict which actions will get you thrown in jail and which will advance your career.
All of that falls out from leadership that is based on values. The rules of the game, like rugby and hockey, are clearly defined and (bar some silliness like redefining the 25 yard mark as 22 meters) unchanging.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
E.R. Campbell said:
To be fair, I think its the entire Liberal party that is pathetic right now. It really doesnt matter who the leader is. They are so fractured and divided among themselves that they will have a hard time uniting around anyone. In my assessment this is the consequences of establishing policy based on the direction of the wind on any given day. The Liberals have lost any values they once had, the only value remaining is "must get elected, no matter the strategy or the cost"
- Reaction score
- 1,560
- Points
- 1,090
E.R. Campbell said:
The difference is that we're generally aware of Mr Harper's values, and he has, in the main, acted in accordance with them. Mr Ignatieff, on the other hand, is a horse of variable colour, depending on the moment.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 160
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/100606/national/ignatieff_coalition
OTTAWA - Michael Ignatieff says coalition governments are "perfectly legitimate" and he'd be prepared to lead one if that's the hand Canadian voters deal him in the next election.
Do we wonder why Harper is such a good Christian - his prayers are always answered. I wonder if the centrist Liberals look forward to Taliban Jack as finance minister?
OTTAWA - Michael Ignatieff says coalition governments are "perfectly legitimate" and he'd be prepared to lead one if that's the hand Canadian voters deal him in the next election.
Do we wonder why Harper is such a good Christian - his prayers are always answered. I wonder if the centrist Liberals look forward to Taliban Jack as finance minister?
Keep Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan after 2011: Ignatieff
OTTAWA — Accusing Prime Minister Stephen Harper of "walking away from Afghanistan as if it never occurred," Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff said Tuesday his party would keep some Canadian troops in Afghanistan to train local police and army after the 2011 end to the current combat mission.
In a major speech about Liberal foreign policy, Ignatieff said he agrees with the Conservative government's plan to end the combat mission next year — but added the mission's termination is happening with such little public debate that Canadians may "look back and ask, what was that about?" and feel the job was left unfinished.
Harper has rejected a post-combat mission for Canadian troops by saying repeatedly he is sticking to a parliamentary motion setting out troop withdrawal beginning July 2011.
Ignatieff also pledged that Canada would resume a major role in United Nations peacekeeping missions, and that a Liberal government would make Africa Canada's No. 1 priority in development aid, establish new long-term bilateral agreements with India and China, propose an international accord on the Arctic, and boost Canada's profile in the United States.
Those were among an array of announcements in a major speech Ignatieff delivered in Toronto and in a 25-page report — entitled 'Canada in the World, A Global Networks Strategy' — that outlined the foreign policy component of the official Opposition party's election platform.
An overarching theme of Canada's defence, development and diplomatic policies under a Liberal government would be the spread of "peace, order and good government" — the phrase in the section of the Canadian constitution that outlines the law-making powers of Parliament, referred to by Ignatieff to as Canada's vocation.
The report singled out Canada's mission in Afghanistan as an exception to what the Liberal platform paper described as "a long and growing list of embarrassments and missed opportunities" in the Conservative government's foreign policy.
It cited a weak climate change position, a "polarizing" approach to the Arab-Israeli conflict, a rebuke from China's premier when Harper took four years to visit his country and bluntly worded policy disagreements on abortion and other issues from U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton during her recent visit.
"Canada has lost ground on the world stage," the Liberals asserted.
While Ignatieff praised Canada's engagement in Afghanistan so far, he expressed frustration that Harper has shown little willingness to debate the future.
"Harper behaves as if the Afghan mission never happened. It happened on his watch," Ignatieff said. "He's walking away from it as if it never occurred. There's something about this that doesn't seem right to Canadians. We have to have an honest national discussion about where we go from here."
He said he's very concerned that Canadians may feel that they let themselves, Canada's allies or Afghanistan down.
"The whole purpose our engagement in Afghanistan was to enable that country stand on its feet and be self-sufficient," he said. "We're not there. Are Canadians going to to walk away with a job half done? I think not."
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Keep+soldiers+Afghanistan+after+2011+Ignatieff/3157935/story.html#ixzz0qyDYhZyG
OTTAWA — Accusing Prime Minister Stephen Harper of "walking away from Afghanistan as if it never occurred," Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff said Tuesday his party would keep some Canadian troops in Afghanistan to train local police and army after the 2011 end to the current combat mission.
In a major speech about Liberal foreign policy, Ignatieff said he agrees with the Conservative government's plan to end the combat mission next year — but added the mission's termination is happening with such little public debate that Canadians may "look back and ask, what was that about?" and feel the job was left unfinished.
Harper has rejected a post-combat mission for Canadian troops by saying repeatedly he is sticking to a parliamentary motion setting out troop withdrawal beginning July 2011.
Ignatieff also pledged that Canada would resume a major role in United Nations peacekeeping missions, and that a Liberal government would make Africa Canada's No. 1 priority in development aid, establish new long-term bilateral agreements with India and China, propose an international accord on the Arctic, and boost Canada's profile in the United States.
Those were among an array of announcements in a major speech Ignatieff delivered in Toronto and in a 25-page report — entitled 'Canada in the World, A Global Networks Strategy' — that outlined the foreign policy component of the official Opposition party's election platform.
An overarching theme of Canada's defence, development and diplomatic policies under a Liberal government would be the spread of "peace, order and good government" — the phrase in the section of the Canadian constitution that outlines the law-making powers of Parliament, referred to by Ignatieff to as Canada's vocation.
The report singled out Canada's mission in Afghanistan as an exception to what the Liberal platform paper described as "a long and growing list of embarrassments and missed opportunities" in the Conservative government's foreign policy.
It cited a weak climate change position, a "polarizing" approach to the Arab-Israeli conflict, a rebuke from China's premier when Harper took four years to visit his country and bluntly worded policy disagreements on abortion and other issues from U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton during her recent visit.
"Canada has lost ground on the world stage," the Liberals asserted.
While Ignatieff praised Canada's engagement in Afghanistan so far, he expressed frustration that Harper has shown little willingness to debate the future.
"Harper behaves as if the Afghan mission never happened. It happened on his watch," Ignatieff said. "He's walking away from it as if it never occurred. There's something about this that doesn't seem right to Canadians. We have to have an honest national discussion about where we go from here."
He said he's very concerned that Canadians may feel that they let themselves, Canada's allies or Afghanistan down.
"The whole purpose our engagement in Afghanistan was to enable that country stand on its feet and be self-sufficient," he said. "We're not there. Are Canadians going to to walk away with a job half done? I think not."
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Keep+soldiers+Afghanistan+after+2011+Ignatieff/3157935/story.html#ixzz0qyDYhZyG
- Reaction score
- 1,151
- Points
- 1,160
The PM is waiting, and has been waiting for a long while, for the Liberals to put forth a motion in Parliament
If the new mission post 2011 goes south, the government can honestly say it was the Liberals idea, and we, the government agreed.
.
If the new mission post 2011 goes south, the government can honestly say it was the Liberals idea, and we, the government agreed.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 160
My favourite:
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/100615/national/ignatieff_foreign_policy
To pay for it all, a Liberal government would reallocate the $1.7 billion currently being spent each year on the Afghan combat mission. It would also "re-evaluate" all major defence procurement programs.
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/100615/national/ignatieff_foreign_policy
To pay for it all, a Liberal government would reallocate the $1.7 billion currently being spent each year on the Afghan combat mission. It would also "re-evaluate" all major defence procurement programs.
- Reaction score
- 146
- Points
- 710
Full party paper:
Canada in the world
A global networks strategy
http://can150.ca/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/canada_world_jun2010.pdf
Parse P. 22:
Emphases in original.
Then there's this R2P/UN invocation, p. 15:
But note earlier on p. 8:
Mark
Ottawa
Canada in the world
A global networks strategy
http://can150.ca/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/canada_world_jun2010.pdf
Parse P. 22:
Emphases in original.
Then there's this R2P/UN invocation, p. 15:
But note earlier on p. 8:
Mark
Ottawa
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