Akeron Missile, yay or nay?

[KevinB]

Beating an old drum but

NLAW, AT4 and M72 strike me as Home Guard weapons - descendants of the Panzerfaust and the Blacker Bombard. The type of thing that should be manufactured in bulk and dumped into long term storage.

The AT-4 can take a thermal or other FCS as it has a 1913 rail, which makes it much more useful than the M72.
There are also a number of different warhead options that one can get AT-4's in.

I really don't see a use for the NLAW - the Min range is just slightly under the Javelin, and it'e much harder to use.

CG84/FCS14 (section), Javelin (platoon), Javelin with tripod (company), and then Spike NLOS, Hero 120, Switchblade 600, 120mm mortar (battalion/brigade) - all those seem to appeal to the needs of the active force.

I prefer Javelin at the Section/Squad as an Option.
Frankly I'd rather hump a Javelin LWCLU and Missiles over a CG84 even the M4.
I think the M4 CG is a good PL Support Weapon for LAV, and Anti Structure work - plus you can use it on a Anti Armor Ambush as a secondary system.

There realistically (and I am telling you as someone who had used it) no advantage to the tripod with the Javelin - you can gain a stable platform using a ruck or day pack - that is going to get just just as much as the tried does without extra weight -- it's not like a target designator that needs to stay on target all the way in. I have a buddy who made a pretty solid kill with a Javelin on a small target using his sniper rifle as the brace for his firing position.

The Question I see is more do you need a "Mid Range" Missile in between Javelin and Spike NLOS?
If Canada had AH's, I would suggest yes, but I really don't know if JAGM is worth it for Canada without Attack Helicopters, sure it could be used from a Vehicle or Drone, and maybe that is a good role for it -- or NLOS use from a Griffon using a ground or Drone locked target.

120mm Mortar -- it would be glorious to have some of the LAV's have one integral...
I'm not sure a 120mm Towed offers Canada much, and would rather have LIB Mortar Platoons with a new LW 81mm

 

[KevinB]

So @Good2Golf any idea of the Griffon could do JAGM launches?
I haven't followed the Armed Escort thing (it makes me twitch when thinking about the Griffon for anything in the CAF as it is).

Would need some mounting and software to link with the targeting entity - I know Hawk pylons can do them - but a DAP is a far cry from a Griffon.

 

[Good2Golf]

So @Good2Golf any idea of the Griffon could do JAGM launches?
I haven't followed the Armed Escort thing (it makes me twitch when thinking about the Griffon for anything in the CAF as it is).

Would need some mounting and software to link with the targeting entity - I know Hawk pylons can do them - but a DAP is a far cry from a Griffon.

It could in a pinch. The tail end of the missile would sit pretty low, or you put the helo up on high-skids. You could run the armament control through the MIL-STD-1553B databus and even self-laze if the MX-15 was repositioned to a more centralized position in the aircraft. Initial engineering feasibility was done back with the -114G in the 90s. It isn’t rocket science….well, it is, but you know what I mean.

Edited to add some late-90s propaganda:

 

[markppcli]

It could in a pinch. The tail end of the missile would sit pretty low, or you put the helo up on high-skids. You could run the armament control through the MIL-STD-1553B databus and even self-laze if the MX-15 was repositioned to a more centralized position in the aircraft. Initial engineering feasibility was done back with the -114G in the 90s. It isn’t rocket science….well, it is, but you know what I mean.

Edited to add some late-90s propaganda:
View attachment 76435

Nice to see we were adopting 1970s ideas in the 1990s.

 

[Good2Golf]

Nice to see we were adopting 1970s ideas in the 1990s.

Right?!?

 

[GK .Dundas]

It could in a pinch. The tail end of the missile would sit pretty low, or you put the helo up on high-skids. You could run the armament control through the MIL-STD-1553B databus and even self-laze if the MX-15 was repositioned to a more centralized position in the aircraft. Initial engineering feasibility was done back with the -114G in the 90s. It isn’t rocket science….well, it is, but you know what I mean.

Edited to add some late-90s propaganda:
View attachment 76435

Wait is that a M230 tucked up beside the Hellfires and just below where the.50 calibre is?
The other thing is I'd like a dozen to play with until we can get the real thing .

 

[Good2Golf]

Wait is that a M230 tucked up beside the Hellfires and just below where the.50 calibre is?
The other thing is I'd like a dozen to play with until we can get the real thing .

No, it’s a CFD LR30.

http://cfdintl.com/static/docs/CFD_Weapons.pdf

 

[Kirkhill]

JAGM or Brimstone

Brimstone | Missile Threat

The Brimstone missile family is comprised of fixed-wing-, rotary-, and surface launched missiles developed and deployed by the United Kingdom.

missilethreat.csis.org

MBDA conducts first Brimstone 3 firing | Press Release | MBDA

The Brimstone 3 ultra-high precision missile system has successfully achieved a major milestone by completing its first firing trial at the Vidsel Trials range in Sweden. Whilst enduring extreme weather conditions with temperatures below -30°C, the missile was surface launched against a pick-up...

www.mbda-systems.com

Brimstones can be fired from tripod, fixed installations, trucks, vehicles, drones, helicopters and aircraft, and used at sea. The later generations of Brimstone appear to have longer ranges and a broader array of guidance packages.

Brimstone Guided Missile - Think Defence

Brimstone is a potent and precision-guided anti-armour missile that arms RAF Typhoons and Protectors

www.thinkdefence.co.uk

Brimstone Anti-Tank Guided Missile | Military-Today.com

The Brimstone is an air-launched anti-tank missile produced in the United Kingdom. It was developed from the US-made AGM-114 Hellfire, but tailored especially for use by fixed-wing aircraft.

www.military-today.com

 

[GK .Dundas]

Who'd have thunk a Griffin gunship. Well that's how the Aussies got started.
I'd be more partial to AH 6i's myself as a starter gunship.

 

[Good2Golf]

Who'd have thunk a Griffin gunship. Well that's how the Aussies got started.
I'd be more partial to AH 6i's myself as a starter gunship.

Oooo, Little Bird! I’d be in!!! Love me an egg!

 

[GK .Dundas]

I keep wondering when it comes to the AH 6 how many one can load aboard a C 130 ?
Just think of the possibilities...

 

[Good2Golf]

I keep wondering when it comes to the AH 6 how many one can load aboard a C 130 ?
Just think of the possibilities...

I’m not sure there’s an open source answer.

 

[Kirkhill]

I keep wondering when it comes to the AH 6 how many one can load aboard a C 130 ?
Just think of the possibilities...

How many DJIA Mavics (or 40mm DefendTeks) could you fit in a C130?British soldiers plea with bosses for more cheap drones to combat 'aerial threats'EXCLUSIVE: British reconnaissance teams are urging military chiefs to buy more cheap drones so they can constantly watch enemy forces on the battlefield, the Daily Express can reveal.By MICHAEL KNOWLES - DAILY EXPRESS DEFENCE EDITOR IN OMAN

15:40, Thu, Feb 16, 2023 | UPDATED: 15:40, Thu, Feb 16, 2023
15BOOKMARK

British soldiers are urging military chiefs to buy more cheap drones (Image: GETTY)


Soldiers said they could operate successfully on the battlefield with tiny drones weighing only 250 grams - which cost £500. The British Army is boosting its drone capability but troops are urging military chiefs to go further and provide their colleagues with more tiny devices fitted with cameras and thermal imaging. Drones have played a crucial role in the war between Ukraine and Russia.

​

Ukrainian forces have used them to watch the Kremlin’s killers moving across the battlefield and targeted them with devastating strikes.

Russian forces have also used Iranian kamikaze drones to kill civilians and destroy Kyiv’s energy infrastructure.
Reconnaissance expert Captain James Heal, 28, told the Daily Express: “In Ukraine, we’ve seen a lot of drones being shot down and they’ve had to resupply [them].

“If you just have one of something and it gets shot down… there is nothing you can do about it.

“The British Army is trying to work out the best way to procure these. At the moment, they are supporting commercial off-the-shelf.
“We’ve got the largest supply of drones.
“The ones I use are slightly specialist, they cost £8,000. But the ones we really want to use at the lower level are around £500, sub 250 gram ones.
“It’s providing that extra security again so we’re not having to come into contact with the enemy or risk them seeing us first.”
Instructors teach Ukrainian military aerial reconnaissance and drone control in Zaporizhzhia (Image: GETTY)
The Daily Express has previously told how British commanders have re-examined their war-fighting blueprint to cope with the growing threat of drones.
Troops are trying to ensure they are even harder to spot from the air by working in smaller units and hiding in small buildings on the battlefield.
This includes the reconnaissance unit, who provide military chiefs with the latest intelligence on enemy movements.
Asked if other reconnaissance units could soon have similar numbers of drones, Captain Heal said: “They are getting there. They are all friends - I’m not sitting there saying ‘look guys, you need these’, I’m trying to write reports so they can sit there and say look, we’ve got to buy these as well.
“At the moment, everything is coming off the shelf.”
Putin's elite unit of 5,000 marines almost destroyed in one battle


“But that would be quite obvious. Now we’re constantly thinking about the aerial threat.
“Someone is looking up and looking for drones that are in that area so we can minimise their activities if we can identify a drone or if we identify a drone we think has got a lock on us, we can immediately move.”
The 2nd Battalion, The Royal Anglian Regiment, is currently in Oman training alongside Omani forces to hone their skills before they take over NATO’s Very High Readiness Joint Task Force (VTJF) on January 1 2024

British soldiers plea with bosses for more cheap drones

EXCLUSIVE: British reconnaissance teams are urging military chiefs to buy more cheap drones so they can constantly watch enemy forces on the battlefield, the Daily Express can reveal.

www.express.co.uk

Or for that matter any of these?

This is what the cheap ones do for the troops on the ground.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/10z8cwi

Japan is making the switch.

Japan to replace attack, observation helicopters with drone fleet

A Japanese document showed graphical representations of what appears to be loitering munitions and medium-altitude, long-endurance drones as replacements.

www.defensenews.com

 

[Kirkhill]

This was the other Drone image I was looking for.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/113qp7p

 

[KevinB]

This was the other Drone image I was looking for.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/113qp7p

Sounds fantastic until Enemies EW Capabilities are turned to 11…

Oooo, Little Bird! I’d be in!!! Love me an egg!

I’m a bigger fan of it in the ‘city bus’ mode.
Much more nimbler for urban work to get in and out.
Having the convertible option for both is a nice feature I’ll admit.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Who'd have thunk a Griffin gunship. Well that's how the Aussies got started.
I'd be more partial to AH 6i's myself as a starter gunship.

Or better yet, buy the Armed Black Hawk helicopter that can carry Hellfire ATGMs, 2.75 rockets, Gatling/Chain Guns, EO IR sensors, etc.

 

[KevinB]

Or better yet, buy the Armed Black Hawk helicopter that can carry Hellfire ATGMs, 2.75 rockets, Gatling/Chain Guns, EO IR sensors, etc.

It’s the Short Bus DAP

 

[Retired AF Guy]

It’s the Short Bus DAP

Sorry, no speakee your lingo!?

 

[KevinB]

Sorry, no speakee your lingo!?

Direct Action Penetrator.
The JSOC version with more bells and whistles.

ARSOAC Airframes Page

www.soc.mil

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Direct Action Penetrator.
The JSOC version with more bells and whistles.

ARSOAC Airframes Page

www.soc.mil

Thank you ... much appreciated..