After courses... (Recce, para, etc..)

[patrick666]

Now say an Sapper completes a Recce course, he would stay in his own troop right? What happens after the course regarding training?

Are they tasked for different operations or exercises?

Cheers

 

[Kat Stevens]

He would stay in his own Troop.  Unless para qualified, then he'd end up in what some people prefer not to call the "Light Troop".  We don't do much of our recce dismounted, that is to say, not full on three day LRRP's.  There are exceptions to this, of course, i.e humping up and down mountains in A-stan.  Hope this helps answer a few of your Q's.

CHIMO,  Kat

 

[McG]

After a course you will stay in your troop.  However, certain courses will increase your chances of going to certain troops when the SSMs & RSM get together for a "slave trade" (similar to hockey teams trading players, except that the RSM may dictate who gets the Stanley Cup team).  Basic Para might increase your chances of getting into the light troop, an HB or HC could get you into Ress Tp EOD sect, an HESV dvr course could get you into Ress Stores, etc.

 

[patrick666]

Does it increase chances of promotion? ... when the time for promotion comes...


So they "trade" soldiers to compile the best company/platoon/section??

What is HB/HC??

Sorry for the Q's, just trying to understand everything...

Thanks..

Cheers

 

[McG]

Does it increase chances of promotion? ... when the time for promotion comes...

Your performance at the unit has more to do with promotions than a check list of courses.  However, there are specific courses that are required for each promotion.

So they "trade" soldiers to compile the best company/platoon/section??

At each rank level there are certain positions a soldier should hold in order to prepair for the next rank.  Part of the trade is to ensure soldiers get time in those positions.  The trade also ensures that sub units and sub-sub  units have people with the right combination of skills in specific jobs.  It is a way to prevent stagnation (like getting the CO's driver or the POL Cpl back into a fd tp). 

What is HB/HC??

Advanced EOD courses

 

[patrick666]

Cool, thanks again MCG, always a great help... 

Cheers

 

[Diver409]

:gunner: All this is academic if the soldier in question, regardless of competence, capability, hardness and unwavering loyalty to the core, is not exactly popular among the hierarchy.   You could do jobs and be in positions well above your rank and qualification level, do them well, and still be stuck sucking hind tit if those around you are less than partial to your points of view.   That should cover the promotion angle because as we know, it is still a popularity contest and the hardest among us know it still doesn't matter.   As you can imagine...I not only have been among those that have witnessed this happenning to others but, I might be a kindred troop in the group of us that know this pain because I do have a knack for speaking out.   That's mouthpiece to those of you who know me.   I am just fortunate enough to be working for, with and around a group of hard troops and leaders that may have shared this affliction in their not so distant past. :evil:
     As for what happens after the courses, being a diver for example may get you into dive stores, but one has very little to do during major exercises for the most part.   There are exceptions to the rule (which I'm sure we'll be reading about very shortly) but I have rarely seen an exercise where the people in charge had even a remote clue on how to employ us divers.   It does happen but the opportunities are few and far between to say the least.   People scarcely realise the CF has this capability.   As a matter of fact, I was in a BG Ex and I was sitting in my track asking those around me why the divers or pathfinders were not being employed to inspect a major culvert which led into Chalk Bay in Petawawa.   Well, it wasn't long before I proved my point because the BG began moving across the bridge which housed the culvert and when enough veh had moved across it, a ref jumped out and said we'd lost a buttload of veh because it was filled with explosives.   That lack of employment would have cost us plenty in the real, and employing us would have taken very little time and realistically would have cost very few lives if it still went wrong.   Are we not supposed to train as we would fight?   Ah well, that's just a Cpl's rant...out to me. :threat:

BUBBLES UP!

 

[Kat Stevens]

:gunner: All this is academic if the soldier in question, regardless of competence, capability, hardness and unwavering loyalty to the core, is not exactly popular among the hierarchy.  You could do jobs and be in positions well above your rank and qualification level, do them well, and still be stuck sucking hind tit if those around you are less than partial to your points of view.  That should cover the promotion angle because as we know, it is still a popularity contest and the hardest among us know it still doesn't matter.  As you can imagine...I not only have been among those that have witnessed this happenning to others but, I might be a kindred troop in the group of us that know this pain because I do have a knack for speaking out.  That's mouthpiece to those of you who know me.  I am just fortunate enough to be working for, with and around a group of hard troops and leaders that may have shared this affliction in their not so distant past. :evil:

Holy crap 409.....you just summed up my whole glorious career in our Beloved Corps in one paragraph!  That's just spooky, man...

CHIMO,  Kat

 

[Spr.Earl]

Good one 409 but so true even in the Militia.

 

[Diver409]

I'm living it Kat...and it's a helluva ride.   And Spr.Earl...I was R031...you are preaching to the converted.   You'd think we'd have learned to keep our mouths shut and fall in line so we could progress up the ranks eh?   Nope...but I guess I'm learning.   Some just wish it was faster.   Thank the Gods I work for RAZOR or I'd have been on a fast bird home from the Ghan by now I imagine.
     Before the 'Mens Christmas Dinner' this past year our CO visited us in the junior ranks for an impromptu CO's Hour.   I sat there digging my nails into the table top and tried to avoid glaring and giving him the 'PFFT' too much.   When we headed through the receiving line he clearly was the first in line and when I got to   him he said to me '.....I thought I was going to get some tough questions from you...what happenned?'.   As I switch hands to RSM 'Stoneface' Patterson I speak...'Sir, I'm just trying to keep myself in check for once'.   The whole time the RSM was tearing me apart with his eyes only to replace the look with disgusted surprise.   Me thinks he enjoys the hate...hahaha.   Our present comd team in the reg't are the first two to make a charge stick on me...and it's been all down hill from then.   ~sigh~   Some people just don't like the truth.

BUBBLES UP!

 

[Kat Stevens]

409, are Mehlitz and  Crosson still in 2CER?  Give em both a boot in the "Engineer Ring" for me if so, they'll know who it's from!  Oh, is Chucky the Love Doll still there too?


CHIMO,  Kat

 

[Diver409]

When I left, Paul was off to his WO's course and Dave hasn't been there for a while.  I'm not sure what he's upto but that last I saw of him was a range control posn in Meaford I think.  He's a WO now and they should both be on the DWAN.  If you mean Chuck ~I've had four bypasses and a few heart attacks and still won't die so don't mess with me~ and works in the RQ...then yes he's still there.  That is an awesome man and he's taught me more about computers in the time I was in there, than the whole time I've worked on them.

 

[Sapper6]

     As for what happens after the courses, being a diver for example may get you into dive stores, but one has very little to do during major exercises for the most part.   There are exceptions to the rule (which I'm sure we'll be reading about very shortly) but I have rarely seen an exercise where the people in charge had even a remote clue on how to employ us divers.   It does happen but the opportunities are few and far between to say the least.   People scarcely realise the CF has this capability.   As a matter of fact, I was in a BG Ex and I was sitting in my track asking those around me why the divers or pathfinders were not being employed to inspect a major culvert which led into Chalk Bay in Petawawa.   Well, it wasn't long before I proved my point because the BG began moving across the bridge which housed the culvert and when enough veh had moved across it, a ref jumped out and said we'd lost a buttload of veh because it was filled with explosives.   That lack of employment would have cost us plenty in the real, and employing us would have taken very little time and realistically would have cost very few lives if it still went wrong.   Are we not supposed to train as we would fight?   Ah well, that's just a Cpl's rant...out to me.

Good rant 409.  For what its worth I've dealt with a few "hard" troops as you say, and in the norm, I would say that the leadership doesn't know what to do with these guys.  My answer was to tell them to 'show me the money', in other words, help me plan a "hard" exercise with all the bells and whistles.  Inevitably, they would either rise to the challenge or beg off and say they weren't interested 'cause that's officer stuff.  For those that accepted the challenge, they would usually find how hard it is in the Army-of-Today to book helos, underwater demolition ranges, find explosives that aren't commited elsewhere and a decent Dive Storeman who has all the support equipment ready to go!

I can't speak for 2 CER, 5e RGC or 4 ESR but I can say that 1 CER under the current CO (a diver) has had probably some of the best Army Diver training in the entire Forces of late.  He attempts to include Cbt Divers in all exercises (Spring, Summer, Fall or Winter).  Finds the $ and the explosives and whatever else the divers need.  Pretty awesome in my books!  He tries to do the same for the jumpers.  Then what usually happens is that he gets criticised for creating "elitists" within his Regiment.  You can't win.  I say, everyone has a job to do and whether it is subjecting yourself to an ice-dive in -40 C or preparing an AEV for a battle run (that's for you KAT) we're all on the same team and should be professional. 

Finally, food for thought.  Those soldiers that volunteer for specialist courses are usually (I say usually) the most motivated and energetic of the bunch.  Hard to turn a blind eye to that when it comes to writing assessments.  My view was always "OK, so he's got the course...Now, let's see what he does with it."  Divers who refuse to dive and Armd Engrs who refuse to work on the Leos didn't get the nod in my books. And just to add one last thing - the soldier who takes the (Fwd Area Refueller) FAR course and works in Tpt Sect (perhaps unwillingly) for 12 months and does an excellent job and then gets posted back to his Fd Tp is worth his weight in gold!

That's my rant.

S6 out.

 

[Kat Stevens]

...Or prepping an AVLB for fording the Battle River in minus-holy-crap temps....Ahh, good times!

By the way, 6, do I know you?

CHIMO,  Kat

 

[blaineh]

S6, It's one of your "hard troops"... remember our first one way conversation in your office after my soccer field rant?  Things sure have changed since then: I'm done university next week and I will grad with an A avg... also topped all my leadership courses since we talked last!  Though one of many I'm sure you've had to deal with, I'll take the "most motivated and energetic of the bunch" comment personally and note that your support here at home and in the Stan has helped get me to where I am today.

Patrick H, I've done all the fun stuff (Recce patrol, Para, LZ/DZ, Hel Ops) I think you're after, as an engineer, and it does help get you noticed (if you do well!) it also doesn't hurt to be in excellent shape as well.  S6 hit it on the head with the positive attitude theme...  keeping your head up and staying positive will get you everything you want in the CF... a lesson it took me a long time to learn.  Don't get cynical or jaded and spend all your time bitching if things don't go your way (like others in the CF and on this site are sometimes inclined to do) your time will come and those that matter will notice - head-up gun-up!

Chimo! Rakkasan!

 

[kj_gully]

Right on! After a few weeks of boredom, the ol' ARMY.ca, provides me another smile or 2. I really enjoyed the rant, it made my Sunday AM. For you my brother in bubbles 409, just know that if you keep plugging away, someday you too can make it to my level, a Mcpl after only 17 years! For you Pat. H., you gotta believe me, 'cause this could be coming from one of the most coursed fellas in the CF, get all the courses, I mean ALL of them. Not just the glamour courses, they aren't as fun now that you can't wear all the badges on your smock, but the water purification course, roads and ground supervisor's course, LoSV course, Power Boat Op, WHIMIS, white sail 3. They all help you. At the very least, when your troop Warrant wants to employ you in some crappy little detail, he'll never find you 'cause you're on course. At best, when you go looking for employment elsewhere, in the CF or out, you will have a broad skill set that cannot be ignored.

Good luck in your career, and take care, warriors

Gully