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Afghanistan: Why we should be there (or not), how to conduct the mission (or not) & when to leave

    I recall my history.  I recall the drive of the Canadian people to "End the war by Christmas" and "Bring the boys home" from both world wars.  The cries were a little softer during Korea, because too many veterans of the Second World War remembered the price of leaving a job half done.  The Canadian people at the time accepted the price in blood and treasure to redeem our given word, to fight for the principles upon which our country was built, and to keep faith with our honoured allies.
    I do not recall a single instance where the people of Canada expected the war to be won, and a new regime put in place in a totally rebuilt infrastructure in the timeframe that we seem to be given for Afghanistan.  The public does not want Rome built in a day, they want Carthage rebuilt, repopulated, irrigated, cultivated, made literate, and taught the ways of free market capitalism, responsible democracy, and separation of church and state.  We are also supposed to teach the tribes that have been merrily warring with each other since Alexander the Great first pried them off a goat, to put aside the sword (or AK and IED), and embrace peaceful coexistence. Don't worry, you have until 2009.
 
Yes, Virginia, you may believe in miracles.  The Toronto Star supports the troops...and the mission!

Yesterday it reprinted a positive editorial from the Winnipeg Free Press:

Aid won't work without arms
http://www.thestar.com/article/227225

Today it prints its own view; Layton and the Liberals (and Mayor Miller) must be in shock. Good on the, gasp, Star!

Giving Afghans a chance
http://www.thestar.com/printArticle/227712

...
Canada has provided 2,500 troops and a $1.2 billion aid package to help the Afghan people emerge from decades of foreign occupation, civil war and, in recent years, Taliban rule. Every extra day that President Hamid Karzai's democratically elected government is given to affirm its authority is a day of hope for the Afghan people.

Canadian troops are striving to buy Afghan democrats time by preventing extremists, who want to topple the government and turn Afghanistan back into a launch pad for terror attacks, from regrouping.

Despite Afghanistan's desperate poverty and social chaos, the Afghan army and police are slowly growing stronger. Girls go to school in many areas. Communities rebuild roads, medical clinics, water systems, hydro lines and other basics. Kids can fly kites again. While the Taliban will not fade completely from the scene, their insurgency has been disrupted. They have been reduced to intimidating small villages, planting bombs and making videos in the desert.

Here at home, pressure may be building to pull Canadian forces from Kandahar when their current combat stint draws to a close late next year. At that time, Parliament will be right to debate thoroughly whether to extend the mission beyond early 2009, taking into consideration such issues as whether Karzai is making sufficient progress and whether Canadian aid is getting to those who need it most.

But on the dusty back roads, Canada's troops can take pride in knowing that the nation honours them for serving in a decent cause, giving Afghans a chance to build a better future.

Mark
Ottawa
 
Amazing isn't it? I posted the first one this morning in the "peacenik" thread hoping our friends there would read it.
 
Bruce Monkhouse: Just did the same for today's editorial--thanks for the idea. :)

Mark
Ottawa

 
Barbara Yaffe makes some good points in this column:

It isn't up to the soldiers to sell the mission in Afghanistan
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/editorial/story.html?id=a054d0ef-e9c7-4010-84c6-f21b2a4a960a

It was inevitable that when troops from Quebec began deploying to Afghanistan, the mission would become more controversial for Ottawa.

Quebecers consistently have shown less enthusiasm for military engagement than other Canadians. In a plebiscite on conscription during the Second World War, 73 per cent of Quebecers voted against...

Now, the armed forces is highlighting a sendoff in July of 2,300 soldiers of the Vandoos. A parade is set for Friday by the Royal 22nd Regiment at Canadian Forces Base Valcartier.

The march, through the downtown core of Quebec City, is among several initiatives aimed at bolstering public support for the troops.

Soldiers are scheduled to visit 18 Quebec towns and cities to hand out flags highlighting the Afghan deployment.

And on Thursday, 1,700 uniformed soldiers are attending a CFL pre-season game at the Molson Stadium in Montreal.

The dimbulb in the military's public relations department who organized these events should be retrained for another position forthwith.

Quite simply, it is not soldiers who should be doing the PR work to justify the mission in southern Afghanistan. It is the politicians. Namely Conservative politicians, particularly the prime minister, his defence minister, and cabinet ministers from Quebec.

To date, it would appear they have lacked the guts to do the job. Sure, Prime Minister Stephen Harper and his ministers have shown up for quickie photo ops in Afghanistan, positive gestures that were probably effective in lifting troop morale.

But that did little to win public support. If the goal is to convince Quebecers that the war effort is worthy, it is the politicians who must do the convincing. From behind a lectern. In front of Quebec audiences. In university lecture halls, where they can conduct question-answer sessions for students. Before editorial boards in newsrooms. Where they can respond to media probing.

Soldiers, God bless them, have no choice in where they are sent. They take orders without question and get the job done. It is not for them to sell or justify their assignments.

As it turns out, the task of selling the Afghan mission is forcing them into potentially uncomfortable situations of confrontation to which they do not deserve to be exposed.

Today's parade in Quebec, for example, has attracted notice of a group called the War on War Coalition, which intends to assemble a parallel counter-march through Quebec City streets to oppose the deployment.

The protest will follow a letter-writing campaign that came to light last week. Four anti-war groups reportedly mailed some 3,000 letters to Quebec soldiers...

From the start of the Afghanistan engagement, politicians have been operating by stealth, without full public debate and with little effort to bring Canadians onside.

Then-prime minister Jean Chretien unilaterally mandated the assignment in February of 2002 [well no, the first mission was announced in Oct. 2001; then came the Chretien surprise of Feb. 2003 when it was announced troops would be sent back to Afstan that summer--a decision made in order to have a bare cupboard for Iraq]. Then, in May of 2006, MPs grudgingly voted to extend the mission to early 2009 -- two years longer than originally planned -- following the briefest of debates [thank goodness; the longer they are the worse they get] in the House of Commons.

We are asking our soldiers, among many other things, to try to win hearts and minds over in Afghanistan. They shouldn't be required to do that job on the home front, too.

Mark
Ottawa




 
Ruxted has been saying that for quite a while now......
http://ruxted.ca/index.php?/archives/51-If-You-Really-Support-The-Troops.html

Quote,
Finally: Stop using the troops as political props, photo ops and whipping boys. Most Canadians, even those who disagree with why we are in Afghanistan and how we are conducting operations there, have nothing but good will, the best of will for the people in our armed forces. Most Canadians are quite able to “support the troops” even as they oppose the government of the day. It is politicians who seem unable to grasp the simple fact that the “troops” serve all Canadians, equally, because they – above all others – represent all Canadians, equally. The men and women in the Canadian Forces signed on to be used, as tools, to advance the policies of the elected Government of Canada; they did not sign on to be tools in election campaigns or props in political theatrics. The Ruxted Group deplores the increase in the partisan use and abuse of our military by politicians of all stripes.

Canadians do “support the troops” and the troops support Canada. It is time for politicians to put our money where their (too busy) mouths are and practice what they preach.
 
NATO chief warns Canadians to look beyond 2009 timetable for Afghanistan
Mike Blanchfield and Hubert Bauch, CanWest News Service
Published: Friday, June 22, 2007

OTTAWA -- Indifferent to domestic political hand-wringing over the Afghanistan mission, NATO's secretary general delivered a clear message to Canadians and their political leaders Thursday: be prepared to keep your soldiers there past 2009.

"Given the facts, I think more time is necessary to create those conditions for reconstruction and development to go on and proceed ... that will not be the end of it," Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer said. "That is a message to Canadians, as much as to the Dutch, or to the Danes or to the Norwegians. It's a message I have for all my allied friends in the alliance and for the partners alike."

De Hoop Scheffer's visit to Canada came as the country's death toll in Afghanistan reached 61 this week with the deaths of three more soldiers from a roadside bomb, as well as mounting political pressure - especially in Quebec - to set an end date for the controversial mission.

De Hoop Scheffer met with Prime Minister Stephen Harper, who has said Parliament will be asked to debate and approve any extension of the Afghanistan mission beyond the current February 2009 commitment.

The Liberal opposition wants Canada to serve notice to NATO that it will not continue in the volatile southern Kandahar province beyond that date, while the NDP wants the 2,500 troops brought home immediately.

De Hoop Scheffer told reporters during an earlier stop in Montreal on Thursday that NATO's military work in Afghanistan will not be finished by 2009, strongly suggesting that Canadians - as well as their 25 fellow NATO members and 11 other partner countries in Afghanistan -- had better wrap their collective minds around the concept of staying in Afghanistan longer than that.

He said he appreciates Canada's current commitment to February 2009, but "the discussion, of course, will be focusing in Canada, and not only in Canada, in my own country, the Netherlands, and many other allied nations -- what's going to happen afterwards?"

De Hoop Scheffer began his two-day Canadian visit in Montreal, where a new poll, this one by Leger Marketing for Le Journal de Montreal, showed 70 per cent disapproval for the Afghanistan mission in Quebec.

Another 62 per cent said they want Canadian troops withdrawn either immediately or before the February 2009 if necessary.

Despite those numbers, de Hoop Scheffer defended the need to carry on in Afghanistan.

Quebecers should realize Canadian soldiers are doing humanity's work in Afghanistan, he said.

De Hoop Scheffer began a press conference with condolences for the deaths of the three soldiers who died Wednesday.

"It is a high price," he said.

But he added it is a price paid in service of a greater good, in a fight to raise the Afghan people from poverty and oppression.

NATO is not a humanitarian organization, but its fighting forces in Afghanistan are essential to creating a stable situation that allows reconstruction and development in the country, he said.

"On visits there I see lots of schools that have been built, many kilometres of roads, new power stations, wider access to public health care."

The military mission is essential for this to come about, he said. "We are creating the conditions under which recovery and development can take place."

In his speech, de Scheffer lauded Canada's military contribution in Afghanistan, saying that it is in keeping with its historic defence of common values, dating back to the Second World War when Canadian troops helped liberate the Netherlands, his home country.

While he acknowledged it has been a tough and costly mission, de Hoop Scheffer reiterated that NATO cannot abandon Afghanistan or it will revert to being one huge terrorist training camp.

NATO was making progress, he said, because it was redoubling its efforts to train the Afghan National Army so the country could provide its own security.

The international community was pressing Pakistan, where insurgents have found save haven in lawless tribal regions along the Afghan border, to play a bigger role in securing peace in Afghanistan, he said.

Scheffer rejected a comparison between the Afghan mission and the U.S. invasion of Iraq. He said the NATO forces are there at the invitation of the legitimate Afghan government and with the support of the vast majority of the Afghan people. The troops are needed to fight a fanatically terrorist Taliban force that slaughters both soldiers and innocent civilians in its campaign to seize power in the country.

"Let's not forget what the Taliban do. They behead people, they kill indiscriminately. They burn schools and hold women in slavery. They use innocent civilians as human shields."

The latest poll is particularly timely because Quebec-based troops are heading to Afghanistan in their largest numbers to date beginning this month. The Royal 22nd Regiment - the famed "Vandoos" from Canadian Forces Base Valcartier near Quebec City - are set rotate into Kandahar on July 15 forming the backbone of the Canada's 2,500-strong contribution to the region.

Ottawa Citizen and Montreal Gazette
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/world/story.html?id=ec387754-3370-47a1-94f9-8f80308f2506

PM: No Afghanistan extension without consensus
Updated Fri. Jun. 22 2007 2:27 PM ET

OTTAWA -- Not only does Prime Minister Stephen Harper want to see parliamentarians agree on the country's future role in Afghanistan, he wants all Canadians to be on-side.


At an end-of-session news conference, Harper said he'd an seek all-party agreement in the House of Commons to extend the deployment of troops beyond the existing February 2009 deadline.


"I will want to see some degree of consensus among Canadians about how we move forward after that,'' he told reporters.


"I would hope the view of Canadians is not simply to abandon Afghanistan. I think there is some expectation that there will be a new role after February 2009, but obviously those decisions have yet to be taken.''


Harper did not say what the new role might be, but there are a number of NATO countries currently patrolling quiet sectors in the northern and western portions of Afghanistan. It has been suggested by defence analysts that Canada could ask to be moved to those areas after three years of hard fighting in the south.


Opposition parties have steadfastly opposed extending the war-fighting mission beyond its scheduled end.


Liberal Leader Stephane Dion said the prime minister is not being clear enough.


"He is being irresponsible by being so ambiguous,'' Dion said, adding the mission should end on schedule because Canadians are needed elsewhere around the world.


Harper's comments came after a plea by the civilian head of NATO, Jaap de Hoop Scheffer, for Canada to remain with the fighting and reconstruction efforts in war-torn Afghanistan.


Scheffer was in Ottawa this week, where he told Harper and other officials that the country plays a "tremendously important role'' in the military alliance and the Afghan mission in particular.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070622/afghanistan_harper_070622/20070622?hub=Canada
 
As the prime minister goes wobbly (I fear the current mission cannot be extended if the Conservatives do not win a majority by Spring 2008), some truths about things and a bit of foolishness.

1) The Globe's Margaret Wente notes some good sense from Rory Stewart:
http://www.rbcinvest.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/PEstory/LAC/20070623/COWENT23/Columnists/columnists/columnistsNational/3/3/10/
...
So what's the truth about Afghanistan? Are our soldiers really making it a better place? Is it worth the sacrifice so that little girls can go to school? Or are we simply doing the bidding of the neo-imperialist Americans? Why can't we bring the soldiers home and just build schools?

If you want a simple answer, don't ask me. If you want a truthful one, listen to Rory Stewart.

In the winter of 2001, a few weeks after the Taliban fell, Rory Stewart walked 1000 kilometres, alone, across Afghanistan. He slept on mud floors and survived on nan bread and tea. It was a crazy thing to do. But the book he wrote about his trip, The Places in Between, is the sanest thing you'll ever read about the place we're trying to save.
http://www.amazon.ca/Places-Between-Rory-Stewart/dp/0143053302/ref=sr_1_1/702-9403136-4948829?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182621541&sr=8-1

Mr. Stewart - who speaks Dari, as well as several other Asian languages - describes an immensely complicated land, where people have profoundly different values and assumptions from our own. It is a deeply religious, largely illiterate, almost feudal world, where tribal alliances are constantly shifting and central authority is nothing but a rumour. "These differences between groups were deep, elusive and difficult to overcome," he reflects. "Village democracy, gender issues, and centralization would be hard-to-sell concepts in some areas."

Most of his account is documentary and descriptive. But toward the end, he unloads some stinging judgments about the well-meaning Westerners who imagine they can fashion Afghanistan into a kinder, more enlightened place. His harshest words are not directed at the foreign troops. They're aimed at the UN officials, the policy-makers, the NGOs, and the would-be nation-builders.

"Most of the policy-makers knew next to nothing about the villages where 90 per cent of the Afghan population lived," he writes. "They came from postmodern, secular, globalized states with liberal traditions in law and government. It was natural for them to initiate projects on urban design, women's rights, and fibre-optic cable networks; to talk about transparent, clean, and accountable processes, tolerance, and civil society; and to speak of a people 'who desire peace at any cost and understand the need for a centralized multi-ethnic government.' "..

...We think that everyone, down deep, is just like us, and that once they have the chance they'll make the same choices we do. But much of the Islamic world has proven to be stubbornly stony soil for freedom and democracy. And the resurgence of Islamism means that many Muslims are using their votes to elect Islamist, authoritarian and (in the case of Hamas) terrorist regimes. The truth is that in Afghanistan - and in the Palestinian territories, and the entire Arab world today - there is no prospect for a secular, democratic state [emphasis added]...

Today Mr. Stewart lives in Kabul, where he runs a non-profit foundation devoted to social and urban redevelopment. His projects are modest and his budget small. Our expectations should be too.

2) But Mr Stewart is not all good sense--from a piece by Don Martin of the Calgary Herald:
http://www.canada.com/components/print.aspx?id=a1c51b96-6c14-4161-bd46-1fb68a0071b1
...
Take the view of Rory Stewart, the acclaimed author who published a bestselling story of his walk across a dangerously lawless Afghanistan in 2002, two months after the Taliban were driven from power.

Now heading a foundation in Kabul, he says Canada must abandon its doomed military folly in Kandahar and regroup in the north, where it has a reasonable chance of success [emphasis added--and in effect partition the country? And what about all the Pathans further west and north?].
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/middle_east_and_asia/afghanistan_ethnoling_97.jpg

"You can only do real development projects in areas where the local population supports you, consents to your presence, and wants to participate," Stewart told me in an interview.

"By and large in the Kandahar area, we don't have that kind of consent. A powerful and effective minority is trying to kill us while the majority is sitting on the fence, so it's extremely unlikely Canada's going to make much of an impact in southern Afghanistan."..

Especially not if we leave too soon.  And how long will Canadians (and others) stomach taking casualties, after abandoning the south, when the Taliban start killing significant numbers of our troops elsewhere?

Mark
Ottawa


 
I'll Throw my two cents in:

First of all I believe in the Afghan mission, I believe that you cannot have proper reconstruction without first pacifying the insurgents/terrorists that wreak havoc throughout the country. And if we pull out in 2009 then we will leave our allies to bridge the gap that is left, stretching out their resources and manpower.

Second I believe that the only reason that the antiwar/peacenik...etc crowd want us to pull out is because all they see or rather all the media reports is the negative that goes on in the country such as Soldiers dying in the line of duty or civilians being caught in the crossfire, they don't see or hear how much the country has progressed in the short time that we have been there (A functioning Government, Education..etc). That is why people are so against the war because they don't see the positive only the negative. I say this because I have talked to a couple off these individuals, and the only reasons that they can come up with is military and civilian casualties or the more popular one "We are just America's lackey" or "We are just there for the oil" and if you try and discuss with them of why we should stay, then they will keep coming up with these points and nothing else.
 
A Reuters report on the PM's wobbling:
http://www.canada.com/components/print.aspx?id=6db673de-ef60-4a1d-98cb-291f7601ab70&k=54700

Canada might continue some sort of military involvement in Afghanistan after its current mission in the southern city of Kandahar ends in February 2009, Prime Minister Stephen Harper said on Friday.

It looked increasingly clear that any major combat role would have to end in 2009, because of lack of support from opposition parties, though political leaders were not ruling out tamer roles in peacekeeping or in development.

Harper has pledged to put any military involvement after February 2009 to a vote in the House of Commons, where the Conservative government has only a minority of seats and must rely on at least some support from opposition parties if it want to continue the mission in Afghanistan.

"I would want to see some degree of consensus around that. I don't want to send people into a mission if the opposition is going to, at home, undercut the dangerous work they're doing in the field," he told a news conference on Friday.

He said the two largest opposition parties -- the Liberal Party and the Bloc Quebecois -- seemed amenable to the military continuing to take some kind of a role in Afghanistan.

"My own sense, listening to ... the Liberal leader, the Bloc leader, is that I don't think they're suggesting -- based on recent comments -- that they would simply abandon Afghanistan in 2009," Harper said.

"So I hope that sometime in the next few months we would be able to get a meeting of the minds on what the appropriate next steps are."..

Liberal leader Stephane Dion repeated that Harper must make it clear to NATO and the allies that Canada's combat role in Kandahar will end in 2009, so replacements can be found.

The troops might be able to train Afghan soldiers after that date, Dion told reporters, and he did not rule out the soldiers acting as peacekeepers in the Afghan capital of Kabul, where they have served before.

"If it's outside the combat zone, it would not be a combat mission," he said when asked about the possibility of peacekeeping in Kabul or elsewhere [emphasis added].

As for Kabul, note this; Citoyen Dion may be a bit out of touch:

Taleban 'shifting focus to Kabul'

The Taleban in Afghanistan are changing their tactics to mount more attacks on the capital, Kabul, a spokesman for the militant group has told the BBC.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6224900.stm

Meanwhile the Toronto Star's Thomas Walkom can bathe in smug self-satisfaction :rage::

Harper finally able to read the writing on the wall
http://www.thestar.com/News/article/228833

Canada's Kandahar adventure is effectively finished. Canadian soldiers will continue to die in Afghanistan's south until the mission reaches its official end, 19 months from now. But even Prime Minister Stephen Harper has acknowledged that our efforts there can't be sustained.

The reasons are twofold and intertwined. First, NATO's war against Afghan insurgents is not succeeding. Second, there is not enough political support for that war here at home.

The New Democrats figured this out last year when they called for Canada to start withdrawing its forces from Kandahar immediately. The Liberals and the Bloc Québécois belatedly joined them with calls to terminate the mission in early 2009. Now Harper and his Conservatives are signalling that they too can read the writing on the wall.

That's what Harper meant at his press conference on Friday when he said – twice – that he didn't want to extend the Kandahar mission past its current February 2009 end date unless there is a consensus in Parliament and the country to do so...

Canadian troops won't be undertaking search and destroy combat missions in Kandahar. They probably won't be in Kandahar at all.

All of this will be welcome news for soldiers' families and friends. Compared to other wars, the casualties from Afghanistan are few. But they are consistent and inexorable – a roadside bomb here, a suicide attack there. Each one raises the fundamental question: What exactly are we doing in that country?

What indeed? The United States, Canada and other allies invaded Afghanistan in retaliation for the terror attacks of 9/11. Exactly why it made sense to overthrow the government of Afghanistan for an outrage perpetrated by Saudis and planned in Germany was never explained.

For a while, the ostensible aim of the war was to capture alleged terror mastermind Osama bin Laden and destroy his training camps. But after he escaped and the camps relocated to neighbouring Pakistan, that rationale was quietly dropped.

Then we were told we were fighting in Afghanistan to destroy terrorists there before they attacked us here. But as the citizens of London and Madrid discovered, war is not so easily contained by geography.

Perversely, the war on terror abroad made us less safe at home.

So now our rationale is that we are trying to help the Afghans. Which is a noble cause. Yet polls tell us that a great many Afghans no longer trust or want us. They are sick of having their homes bombed and their fields shelled. They may not like the Taliban, but they don't like us either.

It's hard to blame them. According to Afghanistan's Independent Human Rights Commission, U.S. and NATO forces are responsible for about 60 per cent of the civilian deaths in this war.

So perhaps it's best for everyone that Canadian public opinion will no longer let the Kandahar mission continue.

We have 19 months to figure out what, if anything, we can usefully do in Afghanistan after Kandahar. Until then, Canadian soldiers will continue to die.

Hurl.

Mark
Ottawa


 
A post at The Torch:

Afstan: What our lack of stomach means
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2007/06/afstan-our-lack-of-stomach.html

Mark
Ottawa
 
A good piece by Jeffrey Simpson in the Globe and Mail:

The travels of Flora: going where few Westerners go
http://www.rbcinvest.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/PEstory/LAC/20070627/COSIMP27/Columnists/columnists/columnistsNational/2/2/3/

Flora MacDonald, the well-known Conservative cabinet minister from the Mulroney era, turned 81 earlier this year but looks at least 15 years younger. While others her age, and younger, slow down, Ms. MacDonald keeps moving. She's just returned to Canada from her eighth trip to Afghanistan in the past seven years.

Flora, as everyone calls her, goes where few Westerners go.

Arriving in Kabul, she is met by the Afghan leader of the group she supports, Future Generations. They drive 12 hours west over "roads that you might not call a road" to the Shahidan valley in Bamyan province. There, she sleeps in villagers' huts and continues to work on small projects, financed by Future Generations and Care Canada, that make life better for humble people - solar and wind power to provide villages' first electricity, schools to educate youngsters for the first time, access to clean water.

Canadians hear much about Kandahar province, where Canadian soldiers are fighting (and dying) and where $40-million of Canada's $140-million in Afghan aid is spent. But we hear nothing about provinces such as Bamyan, where the Taliban blew up the historic statues of Buddha carved into the mountainside.

The people in Bamyan are largely Hazaras, whom the Pashtun majority often deride. In addition, the Hazaras are Shia Muslims in a majority Sunni Muslim country. There is a Hazara diaspora in Pakistan, Australia, the United States and Canada.

The writ of Afghanistan's national government in Kabul barely runs in the Shahidan valley, Ms. MacDonald says. Hamid Karzai might be the elected president of Afghanistan, but, in the valley, he "is known as the mayor of Kabul because his influence doesn't extend much beyond Kabul."

Little aid reaches this corner of Afghanistan. Ms. MacDonald believes most of the international assistance is going to four large cities. "Unless the rest of the country sees some money, their hostility and alienation will increase," she says. "People get discouraged when they hear about all these things that are happening in Kabul and Kandahar."

She adds, "There still isn't stability in the countryside. People are still feeling alienated, and if the Taliban moved strongly into other parts of Afghanistan, those places might fall. People don't want the Taliban back, but if they are going to help them climb out of abject poverty, then they might have them back."..

"I see tremendous things happening in the places I visit, tremendous creativity," she reports. Nonetheless, the country remains "on the brink. It could go either way, but I have great faith in the Afghan people. If they are given some encouragement, they will see things through."

As for Canada's mission in the southern province of Kandahar, Ms. MacDonald, a former foreign minister, says the Taliban danger there "has to be contained." She's doubtful, however, that aid can be effective in a "war zone," and wishes that more attention was paid to other parts of Afghanistan so that Taliban influence does not spread...

And a piece by Andrew Coyne that I do not think really undercuts the arguments made in my post at The Torch cited in the comment immediately above:

Harper's J-turn on Afghanistan
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/editorialsletters/story.html?id=d4a14cf2-5148-4d51-8359-fff8274ab8e3

What did it mean, that little offhand comment of the Prime Minister's the other day, to the effect that he would want "to see some degree of consensus" before renewing the Canadian Forces' current mission in Afghanistan?

Did it mean, as the defeatist chorus in certain sections of the media triumphantly proclaimed (triumphalist defeatists?), that Stephen Harper had buckled to his critics? Was the Toronto Star's Tom Walkom right to claim, on the strength of this one statement, that "Canada's Kandahar adventure is effectively finished," that "Canadian soldiers will continue to die in Afghanistan's south until the mission reaches its official end, 19 months from now," but after that it's back to the barracks? Should we trust The Globe and Mail's Lawrence Martin's judgment that "these were code words for the end of our war mission," that "in a year and a half, other North Atlantic Treaty Organization partners can take their turn at the combat role."

I don't believe it. That's not what the Prime Minister said, and it doesn't fit with anything else we know about him. I know he's reversed himself before, sometimes spectacularly. But this is something that goes to his very core. I do not believe that the same man who not a month ago, on his second visit to Afghanistan, declared that "our work is not complete," that "we cannot just put down our arms and hope for peace," that "we can't set arbitrary deadlines and simply wish for the best," would suddenly have decided to do just that.

What in fact did the Prime Minister say? He said "I would hope that the view of Canadians is not to simply abandon Afghanistan. I think there is some expectation that there would be a new role after February, 2009, but obviously those decisions have yet to be taken." He said "this mission will end in February, 2009. Should Canada be involved militarily after that date, we've been clear that would have to be approved by the Canadian Parliament." And he said this: "I would want to see some degree of consensus around that. I don't want to send people into a mission if the opposition is going to, at home, undercut the dangerous work that they are doing in the field."

Perhaps my decoder ring is not working as well as Lawrence's, but I don't see any U-turns in this...

...By declaring that he will seek consensus on any future deployment, the Prime Minister shifts the focus from his own intransigence to the opposition's. He implicates them in the decision, and in so doing puts the onus on them to explain their position.

And explain it they must. The NDP's at least has a kind of coherence. They are against fighting the Taliban, preferring to negotiate-- though what incentive the Taliban would have to negotiate after we had declared we would not fight them would be interesting to hear. The Liberals, on the other hand, would seem to believe that the Taliban should be fought, just not by us; that our troops should be there, but not use their weapons.

All right, I'll bite: who should fight them? Whom do the Liberals nominate to replace us, among the countries that have refused to fight thus far? The French? The Italians? How are they to be compelled to step forward, even as we retreat? The reality is that, should Canada pull out of the fighting, the gap will have to be filled by the countries that are doing it now -- the British, the Americans and the Dutch. Their mission won't end in February, 2009 [actually the Dutch parliament will vote this summer on whether to extend their mission beyond 2008; vote could be close]. Only ours will...

There's another sense in which it is a good thing to seek "consensus" from the opposition. Read the last part of the Prime Minister's remarks: "I don't want to send people into a mission if the opposition is going to, at home, undercut the dangerous work that they are doing in the field." Translated: that's exactly what's happening now.

The Taliban read the Western press. They are looking for the weak link in the NATO chain, and having found it, they will exploit it -- by killing as many soldiers from that country as they can. If critics of the war should not be accused of supporting the Taliban, neither should critics of the critics be accused of suppressing debate if they point out that there are consequences to their fecklessness. The Prime Minister has invited them to grow up. They should accept [emphasis added].

They won't.

Mark
Ottawa

 
This is all predicated on the assumption that we are still operating under a minority government.....if a majority should come Harper's way, why the whole question becomes moot....
 
Harper's J-turn on Afghanistan
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/editorialsletters/story.html?id=d4a14cf2-5148-4d51-8359-fff8274ab8e3


"The Taliban read the Western press. They are looking for the weak link in the NATO chain, and having found it, they will exploit it -- by killing as many soldiers from that country as they can."

Agreed

"If critics of the war should not be accused of supporting the Taliban, neither should critics of the critics be accused of suppressing debate if they point out that there are consequences to their fecklessness. The Prime Minister has invited them to grow up. They should accept [emphasis added]. "

I feel it is the duty of a loyal Opposition to criticize government policy that they see as wrong. This applies to the US Congress and Iraq and to Canada's Parliament and Afghanistan.






 
Baden  Guy said:
Harper's J-turn on Afghanistan
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/editorialsletters/story.html?id=d4a14cf2-5148-4d51-8359-fff8274ab8e3


"The Taliban read the Western press. They are looking for the weak link in the NATO chain, and having found it, they will exploit it -- by killing as many soldiers from that country as they can."

Agreed

"If critics of the war should not be accused of supporting the Taliban, neither should critics of the critics be accused of suppressing debate if they point out that there are consequences to their fecklessness. The Prime Minister has invited them to grow up. They should accept [emphasis added]. "

I feel it is the duty of a loyal Opposition to criticize government policy that they see as wrong. This applies to the US Congress and Iraq and to Canada's Parliament and Afghanistan.

My emphasis added.

I couldn't agree more but, just as Prime Minister Harper has failed (miserably, in my view) to explain this mission to parliament and to Canadians, the opposition parties have failed, just as miserably, to explain why we should cut and run.

The hypocrisy is greatest, almost unbelievably so, amongst the Liberals who, as Ruxted said, sent us to Afghanistan, to ISAF, for base and disgraceful reasons and then sent us to conduct combat operations in Kandahar.  They have, in my view NO principled position - they are just trying to twist the mission and the soldiers to suit their own partisan political purposes.  Of course, as I have said several times before here in Army.ca, I fear that Prime Minister Harper is no better.  I suspect that Harper, like Dion and Layton, has no interest in Canada living up to the much touted (especially by the cowardly hypocrites in the Liberal Party of Canada) Responsibility to Protect.  He (the PM) is also using the troops and the mission as props in his second rate political theatrics.

Our Canadian politicians are a really sad, third rate lot, aren't they?  Just what we deserve!
 
E.R. Campbell: Steve Harper is no Tony Blair.  This is what Steve never says;
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/tonyblair/story/0,,2112771,00.html

"I am truly sorry about the dangers they [UK forces] face today in Iraq and Afghanistan. I know some think they are facing these dangers in vain. But I do not and never will.

"I believe they are fighting for the security of this country in the wider world against people who would destroy our way of life [emphasis added]...

Our government is unwilling to speak the simple truth because it might upset some people.  We are not just trying to reconstruct Afstan and help the women.  We are defending our national interest.  But one cannot say that in Canada, unlike in the UK.  Fools we are.

Mark
Ottawa
 
MarkOttawa said:
E.R. Campbell: Steve Harper is no Tony Blair.  This is what Steve never says;
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/tonyblair/story/0,,2112771,00.html

Our government is unwilling to speak the simple truth because it might upset some people.  We are not just trying to reconstruct Afghanistan and help the women.  We are defending our national interest.  But one cannot say that in Canada, unlike in the UK.  Fools we are.

Mark
Ottawa

Sorry I can't buy that, the terrorists just moved to Pakistan. And Musharraf is in to shaky a political position to deal with them.
As for Blair's statement in the House, did you expect him to say anything else?

Our policy presently in Afghan is to help the people get back into a stable state such that they can determine their own future?
Is this a reasonable goal ?
Does the west have a sufficiently informed understanding of this country, it's people and it's past.

Is there anything the west can realistically accomplish ? I consider myself reasonably well  informed on this issue and have to admit I have no answer on whether such an end state exists.
And as Mr.Campbell has said you won't find the answer in Parliament where everyone is too busy playing politics with the issue.

Commentators have said that things in Iraq are beyond saving, there are no good options left.
Could we be stuck in a situation in Afghanistan where in spite of our good work and intentions we really have little influence on the outcome?
 
A stark divide in Canadian attitudes:

Harper handed Afghan agenda to the Opposition
Ottawa Citizen, June 28, letter to the editor
http://www.canada.com/components/print.aspx?id=c33215b6-62ce-47ef-b927-c6d2fe5dec2b

Re: Parliamentary consensus required to extend mission, Harper says, June 23.
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=5e0a080e-4b14-4ff8-a2db-18ced16ad3ef

With one incomprehensible and unconscionable action, Prime Minister Stephen Harper has achieved three things: surrendered to the Taliban; increased the threat to our troops serving in Afghanistan; and forfeited management of national foreign and defence policy to Stephane Dion.

By giving the opposition the authority to determine when and under what conditions we will withdraw our troops, he has given them control of the agenda. By so doing, the day after three more of our soldiers were killed, he has advised the Taliban to kill as many more of our troops as possible to make sure Canadians don't forget Mr. Harper's folly, and to speed up our departure. He has invited the Taliban to target Canadians.

Thirdly, Mr. Harper has told them that all they have to do is wait another 19 months and Canada will withdraw from the field of battle, white flag raised, leaving NATO solidarity shattered. The only possibly positive thing he has achieved is to ensure that the Taliban won't attack Canadians on our own soil -- until February 2009.

Finally, with what possible logic did he do this on the last day of the current Parliamentary session?

I am a retired member of the Canadian Forces, having served slightly more than 39 years. Frankly, I now am left to wonder if it wasn't all wasted. This is the message the prime minister may well have sent to all of us retired and still serving.

Denis R. Boyle,

Ottawa

Stephen Harper finally sees the writing on the wall
Ottawa Citizen, June 28, by Steven Staples
http://www.canada.com/components/print.aspx?id=e067e52b-516c-4236-90d6-b91cb591c6ba
...
In a broader context, Prime Minister Harper's remarks last week may signal that the current military buildup and transformation of the Canadian Forces from peacekeepers to war fighters has reached its zenith.

The war has been used to justify an increase of billions in military sending, a reorganization of the forces to better fight the U.S.-led War on Terror, and more than $20-billion in planned equipment purchases.

The Liberals and NDP have already called for a freeze on new major military contracts until the federal auditor general reports on the government's non-competitive procurement process in the fall. With the war all but over, what support will there be for billions of dollars worth of tanks and helicopters intended for Afghanistan?

The Canadian public has never been comfortable with the U.S.-friendly shifts in Canadian foreign policy that Afghanistan has been used to defend, and now they will want our government to be doing what Canadians have always supported -- participating in United Nations peacekeeping missions and paying more attention to diplomacy and aid. That's probably the best news of all.

Steven Staples is director of the Rideau Institute on International Affairs and a board member of the Canadian Pugwash Group.

Steve's agenda is simple: Canadian Forces that do not fight.

Mark
Ottawa
 
Babbling Brooks vivisects a member of "the urbanista journalistic elite of Toronto":
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2007/06/opinions-are-like-assholes.html

Mark
Ottawa
 
  Maybe it is time that we should be allowed to communicate publicly on this subject, and do what most soldier can do best call a spade a spade. I for one will ask the minister from my home email address that we as the soldiers of this country be allowed to speak about this mission and how we feel.
  Tell the people the truth about UN missions and how much of a load of crap they are. Along with saying the truth about how much of a bunch of true hypocrites the Liberals are.
  Yes we are supposed to be apolitical but I for one am tired of hearing how we, as the soldiers of this country are so supported by those bunch of lying crooks.
 
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